Game Thread: WW LXXXVI - The Halls of Mandos

[Mithalwen]

Actually I know I am very out of touch but I don't see that the dream choices are particularly plausible. Phantom is an obvious early choice but either Shasta was top priority or he chose Night 2 someone who wasn't really under the gun. And who was the conveniently dead "known".

[Anguirel]

And I was late for loads more important stuff there...

...I feel a bit silly. I trusted Nogrod, not phantom, though I wasn't willing to spit that thirty seconds ago. For him to be telling the truth now would involve a conspiracy of at least two wolves, wouldn't it? (Or could a clever cobbler get on board? Wait.)

The order of events -

Aganzir revelation
Nogrod bandwagon
Nogrod revelation
Aganzir's trap...

no, there's no way Nogrod's telling the truth, is there. Logical bind. His sincerity relies on Aganzir being Beren. Aganzir would only lie about being Luthien were she a wolf or cobbler.

Brilliant. Artistic. Best stroke of play involving a lover I've ever seen, and I was a damn good one

(By the way, Fea, wolves can kill wolves. As a Lover-Wolf I was faced with a lone wolf-Wolf, Gurthang; we voted to kill each other and both died, village won)

so, I would conclude this by voting Nogrod. But weird things keep happening. I withhold my vote in case of later events, for now...

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ha!
No I'm not. I'm Lúthien.

This is the bestest thing ever.

[Nogrod]

Oh my... Don't forget Fea... That was near decisive.

Some others who voted for me might be wolves (and I think there are one or two), but she had most of the info and still went that way.

Remember also that the wolves don't get caught in this game for making those evil decisions.


Well, I will fight for this from the other side of the thread if I'm sent there (if I feel you guys deserve my effort there), but you know losing the seer means that I can only try to help you with indirect things - and only with the ranger (if s/he dies at a proper time) I can really help you.



Up to you.

Boro and Fea top my list right now and I'd be ready to vote either. I know phantom is the cobbler so let's not waste the votes on him. Even if I'd love to play with him in Mandos...

[the phantom]

Nogrod- all that your long post tells me is that you are a good prepared Cobbler and that you planned ahead for the possibility of helping your side with a false reveal. If I had been assigned that role it is precisely what I would've done.

Everyone pay attention to this next bit-

About your Agan dream- YOU EASILY COULD HAVE ALSO LEFT A CODED HINT ABOUT HER SPECIFIC ROLE IF YOU SO CHOSE!!! But I guess you didn't. Why? Because you didn't know.

And once again I put forth that there's no way I would ever believe you'd be anything other than completely guarded as a Seer with a set-up like this. The idea that you were hinting to us on Day 1 is something no one should swallow, especially if you knew your dream target was so valuable!!

[Aganzir]

I am disappointed.

I was looking forward to an ingenious saving attempt...

[Mithalwen]

I am more inclined to beleive Agan. Coded messages have been used often enough for a wily baddie to slip one in as a reserve but the switch is...a failsafe. I did think it odd it was that way around but assumed just luck of the draw,

Ang thanks. affection appreciated without prejudice in game.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

...I feel a bit silly. I trusted Nogrod

.......

so, I would conclude this by voting Nogrod. But weird things keep happening. I withhold my vote in case of later events, for now...

Ditto for me on both of those. I was inclined to believe Nog too, but it seems pretty obvious he's not the Seer (and Agan is my hero). But yeah, considering how much just happened in such a short time I feel like waiting for a bit.

[the phantom]

The Voting:

Lommy ++ Wilwa
Green ++ Nog
Agan ++ Nog (2)
Boro ++ Nog (3)
Glird ++ Nog (4)
Sally ++ Boro
Nessa ++ Phantom
Legate ++ Nessa
Fea ++ Nog (5)

Question- aimed primarily at those I am inclined to trust at the moment (Agan, Ang, & Fea). Is there any reason I shouldn't go ahead and vote Nog at this point?

[Mithalwen]

Oh blimey I was so going to bed now..I was watching a rubbish film and missed the end... my teddy may have slipped in to a coma and I am freezing but this has got interesting. Oh well I am not driving and I can mainline arabica in the morning...

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

the switch is...a failsafe. I did think it odd it was that way around but assumed just luck of the draw,

and I too thought "gender bending! wow, how casually socially liberal Werewolf is! Maybe I should get my stepmother into it", but thought it was too politically incorrect to comment...which was lucky...

I look pretty bad now, don't I? I saved wolf-features yesterday. Looks like my long awaited holiday on the hither shore might come soonish...

So funny that this game means that Nogrod will now have to lie consistently for about a week, like Tony Blair in the last months of circa 2003 or something...

[wilwarin538]

Actually, I'm getting really tired, so I'm just gonna go for it.

++Nog

[Anguirel]

phantom, chill out till it's nearly four, or eleven as you Yanks eccentrically call it. It'll be more ritually satisfying, and will absolutely torture the wolves

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Everyone pay attention to this next bit-

About your Agan dream- YOU EASILY COULD HAVE ALSO LEFT A CODED HINT ABOUT HER SPECIFIC ROLE IF YOU SO CHOSE!!! But I guess you didn't. Why? Because you didn't know.

It's actually very rewarding to catch the phantom from making an intentionally bad argument to prove one's point... Just love it.

Think of it again, tp, if you were the seer and dreamt of a lover on N1, would you make a hint of any kind that you have a lover (which means losing two innocents if the baddies find out about it)? That dream is called nightmare from the seer's POV.

Sorry, bad call my friend...

But even if you manage to lynch me like it seems to go, I do love the fact I got a few things right.

[Mithalwen]

Oh we have moved on from the days when the possibility of same sex lovers cause massed attacks of the vapours from people who didn't seem at all bothered by the prospect of incestuos ones I am now tempted to ask all sorts of impertinent questions about your step ma but I shall quench my curiosity.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Think of it again, tp, if you were the seer and dreamt of a lover on N1, would you make a hint of any kind that you have a lover?

No. I didn't say "hint". I said "CODED HINT".

Huge difference.

A code is something that will not be found but can be pointed to later in order to establish truth. In this game the Seer would be smart to leave codes rather than hints. The point is to be able to prove your identity without calling any attention to yourself beforehand.

You, however, did the opposite, and left hints but not the necessary code.

[Anguirel]

That doesn't make any sense Nogrod. But it sounds a bit like the whinnying I heard the night our horses were shredded. They were a courageous breed, though, and I reckon you're scareder

[Aganzir]

Okay.

I actually am Beren. I was writing an angry post in response to Nog's revelation where I would have expressed my regret about not having said I was Lúthien, and I realised it wasn't too late and I could actually still try it.

If Nog was the real seer, he would have said: "Heh I happen to know you're not her, can you trust me now?"
Instead he totally ignored my comment (yes it would've been hard to come up with an acceptable explanation).

I think the phantom can vote safely.

So yeah gender-bending indeed. We had a cross-dressing night in the last large Downer gathering I attended.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Oh we have moved on from the days when the possibility of same sex lovers cause massed attacks of the vapours from people who didn't seem at all bothered by the prospect of incestuos ones.

My vapours, my vapours they are acting up!

Originally Posted by the phantom

Question- aimed primarily at those I am inclined to trust at the moment (Agan, Ang, & Fea). Is there any reason I shouldn't go ahead and vote Nog at this point?

Well, in my case I voted Nog before Agan posted (okay, technically after, but it was a cross post), so as you can tell, I was following my own judgment that said not to trust him, and that was validated by further events (ie: Agan, who we'd already decided to basically trust due to the fact that we'll know tomorrow if she's lying, so it wouldn't make sense for her to lie).

Also, I suspect that if Agan was lying about the lover thing, there would have been a much more exaggerated spate of Dead Thread posts in which Shasta spazzed out one way or another.

So basically, I would cast your vote for Nog.

But I'd also like to see you... you know... form your own opinion instead of basing your decisions on what others tell you. It's not like I know any more than anybody else.

[the phantom]

++ Nogrod

I really need to eat. Nothing since noonish.

Best of luck in the night- especially you, Glorfy.

[Anguirel]

...I mean, deviousness is quite a fun survival mechanism, but you young uns seem to use it as baroque titillation...

[Anguirel]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Also, I suspect that if Agan was lying about the lover thing, there would have been a much more exaggerated spate of Dead Thread posts in which Shasta spazzed out one way or another.

Yeah! Great point. You see kids, that slightly sad hopeless Adam and Eve staring through locked gate attitude to the Dead Thread is useful after all...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Yeah! Great point. You see kids, that slightly sad hopeless Adam and Eve staring through locked gate attitude to the Dead Thread is useful after all...

DNA was discovered because it cast a shadow. Just because I can't look at the thing (the contents of the dead thread) doesn't mean I can't look at the shadow (who posted, how many times, and when).

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Which is, by the way:

Shasta 29
Manwe 12
Rikae 9
Mac 1

[Nogrod]

Wilwa as well?

Oh my.


Heh, it seems I have a chance to not go somewhere a lot of people crave to go?


Okay. If someone wishes for two more dreams, then change this voting pattern.

[Anguirel]

Another great asset is that phantom looks golden - but if the wolves kill him, Nogrod will be a pariah in the Dead Thread. Now it's the wolves who have to make the tough calls...

[Rikae]

Um, Fea, maybe posting the links to the posts is a bit much?

Edit: Ah, I see you've taken them out already.

[Loslote]

Oh dear. Now my head is all spinny. Clever Agan.

++Nog

Because, even if he turns up Cobblerian rather than Wolfish, it's better than an innocent (and I'm sure you can gather which version of 'innocent' I meant).

EDIT: xed since Ang

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Another great asset is that phantom looks golden - but if the wolves kill him, Nogrod will be a pariah in the Dead Thread. Now it's the wolves who have to make the tough calls...

Oh, but can you imagine the bickering that would go on between the two of them once dead?

[Anguirel]

oh Nowgli, as the Americans pithily put it, shut up already

++NOGROD

I tried but I just couldn't resist a second longer

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Um, Fea, maybe posting the links to the posts is a bit much?

Edit: Ah, I see you've taken them out already.

I hit copy/paste and didn't realize I was linking to the posts until I submitted the reply. All better.

[Anguirel]

(oh Fea, we're going to have such fun when they kill us!)

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

[If you think you don't need me, then play without me.

But if you're the Seer, you could still help. That's sort of the point of the Dead Thread. The Seer can still dream of the dead people. That's rather helpful, too.

EDIT: xed since my last

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It's sad I know things to help you and could help you.

Aww Nog, 'tis sad. Maybe you shouldn't have ignored my reveal #2...

I'm tempted to stay here till the deadline but it won't make a difference because I know who's going to die and his role isn't revealed anyway, so it's probably bedtime for me. (Ehehe it's almost 6. )

Shasta & Mänwe: I'm pretty sure Nog is a cobbler, but it might be good to confirm it, just in case. But if you think Mänwe's alignment is more useful information for us, I'm all for it.

[Anguirel]

sigh. He probably is just a cobbler isn't he. Still, he's an extremely hobnailed one

[elronds_daughter]

Abstaining. At this point om not going to change the outcome, and I don't think I can condone either side. Sorry, all.

[Mithalwen]

Well lets hope he is a wolf because (and in the light of events my idea wasn't such a good one as I thought at the time) we are also losing BG for good or ill most like.

++Nogrod

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Dear Dead Thread: I'd kind of like to know Manwe's role, since Shasta's will be confirmed for us soon, and based on that we'll pretty much know Nog's.

Kthxg'night.

[Nogrod]

So remember guys, the phantom is a cobbler

You will lose Agan anyway.



You should think how easily people voted toDay... who initiated, who followed and how?

Boro, Mith, Ang, Greenie - people you should be wary of...

[Nogrod]

You've just lost the lovers and the seer. Lynch the ranger next. Really...