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Old 05-25-2006, 11:16 AM   #1
Nogrod
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WWJ IX: Psychotic Penguins: The Crossing of Helcaraxë

“The Noldor came at last far in to the north of Arda; and they saw the first teeth of the ice that floated in the sea, and knew that they were drawing nigh to the Helcaraxë. For between the land of Aman that in the north curved eastward, and the east-shores of Endor (which is Middle-earth) that bore westward, there was a narrow strait, through which the chill waters of the Encircling Sea and the waves of Belegaer flowed together, and there were vast fogs and mists of deathly cold and the sea-stream were filled with clashing hills of ice and the grinding of ice deep-sunken. Such was the Helcaraxë, and there none yet had dared to tread save the Valar only and Ungoliant.”

“The fire of their hearts was young, and led by Fingolfin and his sons, and by Finrod and Galadriel, they dared to pass to the bitterest North; and finding no other way they wandered at last the terror of the Helcaraxë and the cruel hills of ice. Few of the deeds of the Noldor thereafter surpassed that desperate crossing in hardihood or woe. There Elenwë the wife of Turgon was lost, and many others perished also…”


- The Crossing of Helcaraxë as told by J.R.R. Tolkien in “The Silmarillion”

The snowy blizzard was filling their eyes and mouths, forcing them to lean on each other, bending down to resist the onpouring snow. The icy desert cracked and hummed beneath their feet making their misery and anguish even harder to endure. There was only the wind, and the blinding snow and ice all around them.

Elenwë was making her way with her husband Turgon’s household. They were fighting against the storm of frost like all the others. There were no lords or servants here. There was just the Noldor united against the might and the ill-will of the Helcaraxë.

First Elenwë thought she had only imagined it. She thought she heard a faint crack as she took a step. She glanced at her young daughter, Idril, and saw the same fear in her eyes. Others were having similar expressions. Elenwë knew she was not the only one who had noticed the cracking. “Stay calm! Walk carefully, but swiftly. The ice seems more solid over there near Fingon’s host. Let’s try to get there”, Lord Turgon shouted to his household. His words were muffled in the snowy wind.

Cautiosly, the company started to move again. Suddenly a huge gap opened beneath their feet. The grey sea bursted out with a huge roar, splitting a small group of Elves from the others. Many were screaming as they saw their kinsmen fall into the storming water. Elenwë and a couple of other Elves had barely avoided falling to the gap which was now separating them from the host. They were on an ice floe. It started to move.

Many were taken by the grey waters. Idril and Turgon were both with the main host. Elenwë cried out from the floe. Turgon bellowed desperately and was calling others to help in any way they could. Aredhel picked a great elven rope from her package and tried to hurl it to the ones on the floe. It fell short. The rope drifted on the grey waves separating the unfortunate ones from their kin. Galadriel and Finrod Felagund were watching in horror the things unraveling. “I have a bad feeling about this. That was no accident”, Finrod called to his sister Galadriel over the gusting winds.

- The Crossing of Helcaraxë as told by Sinlómien and Nogwë in “The Lost Histories of the Noldor”

Last edited by Nogrod; 06-07-2006 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:13 PM   #2
Thinlómien
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The Rules

The players:
3 werepenguins
1 cobbler
1 seer
1 ranger
1 logical hunter
8 ordinary elves

Werepenguins:
Each Night they choose an elf to kill. The werepenguins may PM with each other during the Night phases. No PMing during the Day. One of them must PM the kill to Nogrod, hopefully one hour before the deadline at least, so that the narration can be in time (we will be flexible with this as there might be timezone problems, but would hope the wp:s could sent their kills in time). The werepenguins win when there are as many wps left as there are villagers – then they are just happy to devour the remaining elves.

Cobbler:
Is an ordinary elf who just wants the penguins to win (affected by them on their journey? ). S/he will play as an ordo, but wins only if the penguins win. In this game, the cobbler will be seen as the cobbler by the seer when dreamed of, but counted as an ordo in the tallies.

Seer:
Each Night chooses an elf to dream of. The elf’s role will be revealed to the seer. The seer PMs her/his dream choices to Nogrod each night. The seer is on the ordinary elves’ side and wins if the werepenguins are defeated.

Ranger:
Each Night the ranger chooses an elf to protect. The chosen elf can’t be killed by the penguins that Night; the ranger protects him/her. The ranger plays on the ordinary elves’ side and wins if the werepenguins are defeated. The ranger can’t pick the same elf to protect for two Nights in a row.

Logical Hunter:
Picks an elf to hunt whenever s/he wishes to; s/he can change her/his pick whenever s/he wants to. The following rules apply to hunter kills. If the hunter has picked a werepenguin and is killed during the Night, s/he will take the picked wp with her. If the hunter is lynched, her pick will go with her if s/he has voted for the hunter on that particular Day. So the hunter only takes with her/him
a) picked penguins at Night
b) her voters at Day.
The hunter should feel free to reconsider her/his pick at anytime during the game. S/he is not tied to the one pick/Night –rule and s/he doesn’t have to change her pick Nightly. The logical hunter is on the ordinary elves’ side and wins if the werepenguins are defeated.

Ordinary Elves aka Ordinary Villagers:
Have no special activities to perform and win if the werepenguins are defeated.


Miscellaneous Rules:

- The Days and the Nights last 24 hours

- The deadline is 10 PM GMT

- The roles will be revealed upon death

- Everyone has a choice of retracting her/his vote once each Day

- There will be no double-lynches

- If there's a tie, the player reaching the highest vote first is lynched

- There will be no clues in the narrations

- The dead players can’t post on the thread

- No player can use PMs to verify anything they say

- Editing is only allowed to correct spelling/grammar mistakes, to go back and bold/italicize something etc. or to mark cross-posts

- All players must be in the Invisible Mode

- The werepenguins are the only players allowed to PM with each other during the game, but only during the Night phases

- All discussion about RL hindrances etc. should take place in the TiGJ-thread, which we hope all the players would check frequently

- The votes should be cast as follows:

++ Nogrod

(on a separate line, bolded, ++ in the beginning when voting, or -- when retracting a vote)

- Players who don’t post or fail to vote in two days in a row will be removed from the game


All gifted/wp picks will be PMd to Nogrod
All urgent matters/questions please PM to both Nogrod and Thinlómien (basicly we’re working on the same computer and will be logged in as one or the other)


All narrations are written in co-operation so all comments (positive and negative) to both of us, please.

THIS POST IS 13 MINUTES LATE FROM THE ACTUAL HOUR OF THE DEADLINE. 24 hours to Day1.
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Last edited by Thinlómien; 06-08-2006 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 06-06-2006, 04:41 PM   #3
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Night One begins...

The ice-floe drifted for a couple of days on the unknown seas. But on the third day of floating the Elves marked something weird in the horizon. There was a flock of strange birds they had never seen before coming towards them. They were elegant in their black and white, incarnations of true beauty. The Elves looked at them in astonishment: those magnificent creatures didn’t fly on air like other birds, but flew in the water swimming with the grace the Elves had never thought possible.

The gallant birds, penguins - as the Men of the later ages called them, but to which the elves had no word for - surrounded the floe and quacked amiably. Those gentle creatures took the floe and started carrying it to a new direction. The Elves were astonished, but let the birds do what they were doing. There was no better choice at the moment. No one dared to touch these magnificient animals whose origin was unknown to them.

As the evening was drawing to a close they noticed an island in the horizon. The penguins were steering the floe determinedly towards it. The island was small, but there was a major building in the middle of it, all lit up and shining for miles away. Eventually they got to the shore as the stars were just starting to glow. The penguins rushed around them and the Elves showed their gratefulness by patting them on the head, stroking, and even hugging them. A few cries were heard since the penguins rewarded some overfriendliness with a sharp peck, but generally the scene was very warm. The penguins started pointing towards the palace in the middle of the island. The Elves thanked their odd guides once more and started to climb the hill to the palace waiting for them up there.

The doors were open. Warm candle light from the great chandeliers welcomed them to an extensive assembly hall. There was no sign of any living creature to be seen. The Master or the Mistress of the house seemed not to be present, but there was an abundant meal set ready for eighteen in the Great Hall to their left. The starving Elves didn’t hesitate, but hurried to the table with passion. All the main courses, fruits and delicacies one could imagine were laid ready: a whole deer filled with pheasants, whole roasted piglets with apples in their mouths, lamb tagine with apricots in a huge bowl, several smoked salmons, shark’s fin soup and turtle broth, steamed artichokes with fennel, tomatoes and beans with ginger, cream and cheese gratinated cauliflower, ostrichs’ tongues, quail’s eggs, frog legs, goose liver, sturgeon caviar, ants in honey, pineapple with mint and caster sugar, prunes and plumes, grapes and kiwi fruits, coconuts, tiramisu, saffron-spiced rice pudding, halva, apple pie with vanilla sauce, truffles, hazelnut brownies... And there was no shortage on beverages either: the finest wines and champagnes, meads and ales of various sorts, freshly squeezed fruit juices, cold spring water and numerous teas flavoured with all imaginable herbs.

“But where is Lady Elenwë?” Valier, the chambermaid, asked in the middle of the meal. All the party had been concentrating on filling their stomachs and no one had noticed that their mistress was gone.

“I saw her in, and my Lady surely entered the house” said Roa_Aoife, Elenwë’s personal guard, “but I haven’t seen her since I saw the meal.”

The others were quite overtaken by the news and started to grow restless. No one could accuse Roa though. They had all been lured by the meal.

“We must find her!” Macalaure, Lord Turgon’s nephew proclaimed.

“We must find who?” asked Dimwë the half-wit, Elenwë’s second cousin.

“She hasn’t used her pot” Kitanna dropped in, looking worried.

“Not here. Master not here” called a strange croaking voice from above them. Everyone tried to spot the speaker. “Look there, it’s a parrot!” shouted Boromir88, the Mouth of Turgon. They glanced up to see the green bird swinging on a perch high, near the roof. There was a moment of silence. “Rooms upstairs. Good night!” The parrot took to its wings and disappeared through the open roof window.

They were all filled and tired and confused. “I think noble ladies know when to get some sleep as well as we simpler ones” said Naria, the goat herder. “Right. Let’s go to sleep” agreed Encaitare, the standard-bearer. The elves were too weary and tired to mind the peculiarity of the situation. They decided to think about it the next day.

There were bedrooms available on the second floor, all made ready to sleep in. They snuggled up in the soft cushions and luxurious linens.

Instantly they all fell into a deep, dreamless sleep.

Little did they know of what would ensue...


Players
Valier - Elenwe's personal chamber maid
Diamond18 - Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë
Naria - Family's goat herder
Macalaure - Turgon's nephew and part-time-repentant kinslayer
Lalaith - Aredhel's tutoress
Firefoot- Aredhel's friend
Jenny - An Embroiderer, lost, not related
Roa - Elenwë's personal guard
phantom - Ecthelion's hotheaded nephew and personal squire
Boromir - The Mouth of Turgon
spawn - animals' dung cleaning specialist
Kitanna - servant who empties and cleans chamber pots
Encaitare - A standard-bearer
Anguirel - Lalwende's semi-canonical lutenist and Findis's demi-canonical flautist
Eonwe - Turgon's herald


NIGHT 1 begins now.

Werepenguins PM at will to make your plans until the start of the Day1.
Seer pick your dream and PM it to Nogrod.
Hunter, you may PM Nogrod your choice whenever you wish.
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Last edited by Thinlómien; 06-07-2006 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 04:01 PM   #4
Nogrod
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Day One dawns

It was over midnight and two werepenguins were already assembled in the basement.
“So, we must get rid of the two singer-songwriters tonight”, the Chinstrap said.
“Easy job, I daresay”, answered the Rockhopper.
“Where’s the Emperor, by the way?” asked the Chinstrap.
“Probably taking care of ‘matters of the state’”, the Rockhopper grinned.
“To state the matter, the Emperor’s busy”, chuckled the Chinstrap.
“With the current state of the affairs, I’m not wondering that” the Rockhopper commented.
They both bursted up in laughter.

“The idea was not to wake the whole party with that foolish chuckling of yours” a dry voice interrupted as the Emperor emerged from the shadows.
“Yes, boss” the two smaller penguins agreed.
“Let’s get to the bussiness now. And no tomfoolery, I warn you”, the Emperor said.

Quietly the three took the Bomb and left.

-----------------------------

Instead of sweet birds singing, the elves were waken up by an explosion. They hurried out from their rooms to the place where Thinlómien’s and Nogrod’s rooms should have been, but they saw Nothing.

Actually seeing Nothing for the first time in one’s life is quite a mind-boggling experience. It was most weird, nothing they would have imagined Nothingness to be. It was there in front of their eyes but then, it wasn’t. The two rooms were missing, the doors to them were missing, the ceilings were missing, the beds were missing, the pillows were missing and both Thinlómien and Nogrod were missing too. Everything was missing but Nothing.

There was no trace of Lady Elenwë either.

“There’s nothing there” said dancing spawn of ungoliant, the animals’ dung cleaning specialist.
“Obviously” answered Eonwe, the herald, wryly.
“Except Nothing, of course” snapped in Anguirel, Lalwendë's semi-canonical lutenist and Findis's demi-canonical flautist.
“Did you hear the bang?” asked Firefoot, Aredhel’s friend.
“Yes, it was a Big Bang” answered Lalaith, Aredhel’s tutoress.
“A mighty darn huge Big Bang” put in the phantom, Ecthelion's hotheaded nephew and personal squire.
“Yeah... Hey look! There’s a note on the floor!” called JennyHallu, a lost embroiderer. She picked the note and read it out aloud:

“The Big Bang: Nothing may give birth to something, but that something may end up being Nothing.”

“Breakfast. Downstairs. Breakfast downstairs”, croaked the voice of the green parrot they had encountered last night.

-----------------------------

~ The Dead ~
Nogrod - a troubadour, singer – mod blowed up in the Big Bang on Night1
Thinlómien - a troubadour, harpist – mod blowed up in the Big Bang on Night1

~ The Living ~
Anguirel - Lalwende's semi-canonical lutenist and Findis's demi-canonical flautist
Boromir88 - The Mouth of Turgon
dancing spawn of ungoliant - animals' dung cleaning specialist
Diamond18 - Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë
Encaitare - A standard-bearer
Eonwe - Turgon's herald
Firefoot- Aredhel's friend
JennyHallu - An Embroiderer, lost, not related
Kitanna - servant who empties and cleans chamber pots
Lalaith - Aredhel's tutoress
Macalaure - Turgon's nephew and part-time-repentant kinslayer
Naria - Family's goat herder
the phantom - Ecthelion's hotheaded nephew and personal squire
Roa_Aoife - Elenwë's personal guard
Valier - Elenwe's personal chamber maid

Day1 has now begun.

Penguins stop PMing.
Everybody start discussing.
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Last edited by Nogrod; 06-08-2006 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 04:14 PM   #5
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Eye

I knew those beastly little birds were no good the minute I laid eyes on them! I wanted to beat them off the ice, but noooo... you all said "Oh, they're cute, don't hurt them" and "They're just pulling us to safety."

Well, does it look like we're safe now? Ha! The flightless fiends haven't brought us to safety, they've brought us to death. And what's worse, they're making a sport of it, killing us slowly and prolonging the misery.

Birds that can't fly- that is just plain perverse! They are obviously Melkor's handiwork. Only he would do something so ridiculous.

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to have a look around- mainly I'll be looking for those black and white evil-doers. If I find one, I'm going to make a meal out of it, whether you think it's cute or not!
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Old 06-07-2006, 04:33 PM   #6
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Cats, Ducks, Orcs, and now Penguins... what's next? I'm almost afraid to ask.

I have failed in my duty to protect the Lady Elenwe, and I am greatly shamed for it. I will try to regain my honor by taking revenge on the beasts who harmed my mistress. Now, then, how to catch them?

I'm not one for theory making- I'm better at analysis, but I have nothing really to analyze at the moment. It seems this game will be nice and straight forward, aside from the cobbler. About said cobbler- lynching the cobbler would be no great loss to us earlier in the game when there are many of us. My greatest concern is that the cobbler, rather than getting him/herself lynched, will survive, and lead the village astray, (such as the case of Saucepanman during the attack of the Wereducks.) That said, we should be very careful concerning theories and reasoning, and look very closely for faulty logic or baseless assumptions, especially if someone keeps stating a theory as fact.

Like Big Bangs, etc...

EDIT: Elenwe, not Eonwe- but you have to admit, it's an easy mistake when you're rushed.
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Old 06-07-2006, 04:47 PM   #7
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Eye

Quote:
About said cobbler- lynching the cobbler would be no great loss to us earlier in the game when there are many of us. My greatest concern is that the cobbler, rather than getting him/herself lynched, will survive, and lead the village astray
But in order for the cobbler to purposefully lead us incorrectly, he will first have to know which way is correct (i.e. he must know who the WPs are).

But he doesn't know. He's as clueless as the rest of us. He may guess right who the WPs are, but he is just as likely as us to guess wrong, and therefore his leading may actually lead us to a WP, and he may defend an innocent thinking that they are a WP. There's no telling.
Quote:
That said, we should be very careful concerning theories and reasoning, and look very closely for faulty logic or baseless assumptions, especially if someone keeps stating a theory as fact.
Honestly, there is no reason for an intelligent Cobbler (or WP) to do any of this. It is easily possible to form a good solid theory that incorrectly pegs an innocent as a WP or a WP as an innocent.

The possibilities are endless.

In past villages, my ancestors were able to come up with decent reasoning for why pretty much every single villager was a werecreature.
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:04 PM   #8
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Eonwe has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Failed to protect the "Lady Eonwe", huh? I believe you meant "Lady Elenwë". Are we preoccupied a bit there Roa? Maybe thinking of a midnight snack, eh? Well, we'll see about that.



Of course, I'm just joking, and will of course try to make that plain, given my possition on the whole first day shenanigans deal.

Both of you are correct about the cobbler. We don't know and he doesn't know, so I say we just leave him alone for now. After all, what really can we do at this point?

All for now, I'll check back in later tonight, hopefully.
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:18 PM   #9
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Never fear! Dimwë is here!

I say we get all of this over with quick and kill

++EOMER! ++EOMER I say! Yar!

Hahahahahahahaha!

Ha.

Ha.

.
.
.

Er, what was that? He's not actually playing? Well pffifle it all. *sigh*


- - EOMER


But I would like to council anyone that if someone by the name of Eomer or Aimé or Hansel or Neil or Bubba should float ashore, we should not only kill him quickly, but in a messy fashion.

Now excuse me whilst I wonder off in a half-wit fashion and get lost in the hallways of this... place.

(OOC: yeah, I wasted my first retraction. But as I will be around at deadline time tomorrow, I don't foresee really needing it. And I needed to get that vote off my chest, where it's been sitting for a week or so and it's got a rather big buttocks so it was getting hard to breathe, you see.)
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:22 PM   #10
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White Tree

Here ye, Here ye, by order of Lord Turgon, brother of Aredhel and Fingon, son of Fingolfin, and King of Gondolin he sends this message:

I have my utmost confidence that this village can proceed onto victory.
Some may lose their lives along the way,
but their purpose in achieving victory for the innocent will not be forgotten.
Use the talents and gifts that you all are blessed with.
And after the Werepenguins are brought to justice,
there will be rich reward to those who survive.

Signed: Turgon Lord of Gondolin



A note on the cobbler, the biggest set back to having a cobbler would be the confusion he/she could potentially cause. As phantom says there guess as who is a wolf is just as good as any other ordinary villager.

While it is much more beneficial to lynch a werepenguin, getting rid of the cobbler would still be a victory for us. For we will eliminate the WP's ally and not be lynching an innocent villager purposefully trying to catch the wp's.
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:24 PM   #11
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Well since there's not much to say on the first day I give you my take on everyone...Please don't be offended....just for fun


Anguirel -He's a sneaky one and I wouldn't put it passed him. He is a little well.... birdy.

Boromir88 - He is definately a Werepenguin..ya I said it!

dancing spawn of ungoliant - Eww she cleans up poo!..I'll keep my eyes on her.

Diamond18 - Very hard to judge at times, but can also be a sneaky baddie.

Encaitare - Hmmmm I don't know

Eonwe - Always so loud with his heralding!! someone to watch.

Firefoot- Friend hey?.....We'll see...

JennyHallu - She's bad to the bone

Kitanna - who cleans chamberpots I ask you? her hands are already dirty

Lalaith - So nice and trustworthy.....or is she?

Macalaure - Hi, I'm Macalaure, you may remember me from such ww games as....Oh wait,I've never met he\she before. newcomers are scary

Naria - Definately bad

the phantom - He's so hotheaded...what else is needed?

Roa_Aoife - She's for sures the E.W. .....Oh ya I mean she's SO bad!!

Valier - Forever doomed to find the bad guys
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:40 PM   #12
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*cough cough* That was my line.

I don't really see what the discussion about the Cobbler is here. The Cobbler is bad, and dangerous. Even if they don't manage to figure out who the wolves are an expertly nudge them to victory (a la SpM... and I believe TORE was once a victorious Cobbler, though I didn't read that game, just saw it in the Grimoire) they are a liability and do not have the Elves' well being in mind. If we can kill Werepenguins instead, yay us, but if we get the Cobbler I'll be smiling.

A possible scenario would be for the Seer to dream of the Cobbler, and if/when they reveal, they can just tell us to ignore whatever that person says. But as this scenario requires the Seer revealing (and consequently dying) I still think that lynching the cobbler (or laughing when the penguins kill him/her at night) would do us just fine.
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Old 06-07-2006, 05:49 PM   #13
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Our dear leaders Turgon and Elenwe, gone!? Aiee! I say we run around like leaderless chickens with our heads cut off, haphazardly voting and hoping to kill some penguins!!

Er, yeah. Miscellaneous comment of the day. I had to do it.

Concerning the cobbler: the cobbler is only bad if s/he survives to the point where there are an equal number of villagers and WP's excluding the cobbler. That's bad. But right now, I'm definitely not worried about the cobbler. As long as s/he ends up dead somewhere along the way, we're fine. Who knows? The wolves might even kill him/her... the wolves don't know who the cobbler is, either.

Now, who looks guilty...? Roa, obviously not doing a very good job of guarding Elenwe... and phantom the squire isn't doing an outstanding job either...
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Old 06-07-2006, 06:07 PM   #14
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Some quick comments on people so far before I must be off...

Valier and Eonwe are acting too strange to be evil penguins. I don't think wps would act in this manner in the very early goings of the game.

Firefoot brought up useful comment on the cobbler, one which I completely forgot about, seeing as I have no remembrance of a cobbler for a very very long time now. So Firefoot I'm ok with for now, a very logical sensible person to have around.

I can't find much significance in Roa's, phantom's, or Diamond's, posts yet, so there's nothing for me to go off of.

I shall now depart.
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Old 06-07-2006, 06:48 PM   #15
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Dearies, after some friendly introductions all around, couldn't we focus on finding these incendiary enemies? The cobbler is useless without werecreatures.

And as I can see it, a bomb and a...a...nothing do not point to penguins. Those cute little birds couldn't possibly have made a bomb. I don't know anything about pyrotechnics, but I'm sure it requires opposable thumbs, or fingers, or something.

But perhaps that hotheaded transparent youth knows something we don't. A Freudian slip perhaps? How do you know the penguins are evil? I think he must be one of them.
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:58 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by B88
Valier and Eonwe are acting too strange to be evil penguins. I don't think wps would act in this manner in the very early goings of the game.
Haha! Yes but think of the double-bluff implication on that one will you! And don't complain to me if the triple-bluff gets to you. You signed up for this were-penguine expose!
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:16 PM   #17
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Hi everyone! It's been a really long hard day trying to keep those goats in check. I really don't have too many thoughts on the goings on so far and I'm too tired to care right now. I'll be back on around 11 hours or so from now(CST) with hopefully a clearer head.
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:01 AM   #18
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Macalaure is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Macalaure is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Good morning, everybody!

So, this is my first Werewolf game and I have to say, I was a little bit nervous. Will I be able to detect a werewolf before they or my fellow villagers kill me?

And I haven't said anything yet and I'm already scary to Valier...

But then I was happy to read what the phantom wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom
Quote:
That said, we should be very careful concerning theories and reasoning, and look very closely for faulty logic or baseless assumptions, especially if someone keeps stating a theory as fact.
Honestly, there is no reason for an intelligent Cobbler (or WP) to do any of this. It is easily possible to form a good solid theory that incorrectly pegs an innocent as a WP or a WP as an innocent.

The possibilities are endless.

In past villages, my ancestors were able to come up with decent reasoning for why pretty much every single villager was a werecreature.
So we aren't supposed to think about convincing arguments for our votes but to lynch each other completely at random? That takes a lot of pressure off me, thank you.

As I see it, the cobbler's dilemma is, that he first has to detect his wolves and then put together arguments that are exactly contrary to his actual thoughts. Same holds for the Werepenguins themselves, with the advantage, that they can exploit unreasonable behaviour of innocents, whereas the cobbler will fall for this.

The easiest way to protect our selves and make life harder for penguins and cobblers, is to put together convincing, logical arguments for our votes and suspicions. This shoulb be easier to do for us innocents, since we don't have to "make something up".

Well - my thoughts... coulb be bogus... I'm new here.
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:09 AM   #19
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Oh dear, this is not a very positive situation. The confounded penguins seem to have something against minstrels.

Right. Just to be on the safe side, I'm not touching my lute or my flute till those acccursed creatures are all unmasked. And frankly, I don't care if that makes me even less canonical.

So far...

I always like an opportunity to pick a fight with the phantom. Sadly, his two posts so far have been eminently sensible. Penguins are evil and the cobbler will probably try and seem intelligent-unless they're in the more direct suicidal mode. All the same, o kin of Turgon, I do not trust thee. With you it's assuredly guilty till proven innocent.

Eonwe's contribution is slight but to be fair he's low on material at that point.

Diamond, were she not Dimwe Diamond and entitled to a little...skittling, would be still more worrying than she already is.

Valier's behaviour is normal and not that suspicious.

Boromir's first post seems to deliver little helpful thought, but he sometimes takes a while to get into his stride. The last time I accused him on a Day One he turned out to be a Ranger. And his second post is much better.

Firefoot's proposed course of action is the one I shall probably adopt, headless chickenery and all. With Boromir and the phantom she's one I'd fear most as a penguin, but that's no real basis for lynching. Yet.
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:14 AM   #20
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Eye

We don't need to worry about the Cobbler. We're going to lynch a couple non-WPs during this little adventure, and the WPs are going to be killing non-WPs (obviously) every night, so there's a decent chance that the Cob will bite the dust without any effort on our part.

Not to mention the fact that he counts as a villager in the tally, so he helps us in that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Footie
Concerning the cobbler: the cobbler is only bad if s/he survives to the point where there are an equal number of villagers and WP's excluding the cobbler. That's bad.
Well yeah, but if that situation comes up a clever villager could preempt the WPs and step forward and claim to be a WP and demand that the Cobbler vote with him. Then perhaps a real WP would step forward to contest the claim? Then it would be up to the Cobbler to decide who was the real WP.

Even if the Cob is the tie-breaking vote, he might not necessarily vote the right way- that is if the remaining villagers are also pretending to be WPs.

Am I explaining that well? I'm really sleepy, so sorry if everything I say is muddled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenn
How do you know the penguins are evil? I think he must be one of them.
I already explained my logic dearie. Flightless birds are not natural- they border on sickening in my mind. I think they are the handiwork of Melkor, and therefore they are evil.

Anyway, I'll say more later on in the day.

For now, Seer- don't you dare hint about last night's dream in such a way that is recognizable! Wait until at least tomorrow before dropping hints, and try to keep them subtle.

I would recommend that everyone drop a hint of innocence about a fellow villager or two in the following days as if you were the Seer and had dreamed that person innocent. That should make it easier for the Seer to hide.

Giving hints about guilt won't be as good a cover for the Seer, because with these odds it is likely you will hint at the guilt of a non-WP, and so the WPs will quickly cross you off the list of possible Seers.

Oh, and before I go- Spawn is a WP. But she's too pretty for me to vote for right now.

I'll be back later.
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:32 AM   #21
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Now the phantom scares me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom
Well yeah, but if that situation comes up a clever villager could preempt the WPs and step forward and claim to be a WP and demand that the Cobbler vote with him. Then perhaps a real WP would step forward to contest the claim? Then it would be up to the Cobbler to decide who was the real WP.

Even if the Cob is the tie-breaking vote, he might not necessarily vote the right way- that is if the remaining villagers are also pretending to be WPs.
In which case he is likely to reveal himself. Then all werepenguins will vote for him and win. It's not forbidden to vote for yourself, is it?
And if he's not tie-breaking, no penguin will bother to sacrifice itself to save the cobbler.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom
I already explained my logic dearie. Flightless birds are not natural- they border on sickening in my mind. I think they are the handiwork of Melkor, and therefore they are evil.
I always thought they were made by Ossë to please the Tele... wait, yes, they are evil.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom
I would recommend that everyone drop a hint of innocence about a fellow villager or two in the following days as if you were the Seer and had dreamed that person innocent. That should make it easier for the Seer to hide.
This way nobody benefits of the seer. Then it's better if he remains silent about his knowledge at all.
You really are serious about everybody should giving baseless assumptions. Is there an easier way for the werecreatures to hide?
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:51 AM   #22
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Well...Macalaure, about the seer, you have a point and you don't. If the Seer is killed, it will be clear whose hints we should look at-ditto if they reveal themselves. What the phantom's plan will mean is that we won't be able to act on what we suspect is Seerish advice before a death or revelation...but that hampers penguins more badly than it does us. So all in all, I'm sorry to say that the phantom's plan seems pretty good...

Unless he himself is one of our foes and has already spotted a hint, in which case his proposed strategy is hideously ironic. Urrgh.

Anyway, at this stage I'd rather have no hints at all. We shouldn't be too absorbed in our assets-the Gifted Ones will make themselves known at the right time-instead we should have an eye to our insidious enemies.

Incidentally, phantom old chap, are you still into killing Ordinary Elves on Day One to prevent the accidental lynching of a Gifted? I'm not.
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Old 06-08-2006, 01:53 AM   #23
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Eye

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Then all werepenguins will vote for him and win. It's not forbidden to vote for yourself, is it?
I didn't even consider that option. Personally, I don't think a vote for yourself should count. It's absurd.
Quote:
This way nobody benefits of the seer.
I see there is a certain concept you aren't grasping. We don't want the village to benefit from the Seer's knowledge early on, because frankly, if the Seer is giving obvious enough directions for the village to follow, the WPs will instantly be aware of the Seer and KILL HIM!!

That's the LAST thing we want.

We want the Seer to survive long enough to dream of a WP (or two) and then take the risk of revealing his identity.
Quote:
Then it's better if he remains silent about his knowledge
Yes, early on anyway.
Quote:
You really are serious about everybody should giving baseless assumptions.
Well, what else is there? Villagers know nothing! Therefore a villager cannot possibly make a concrete accusation! The best a villager can do is form theories and analyse voting and posting patterns. You can call this "baseless assumptions" if you wish, but it's the best thing we have until we get our hands on some Seer dreams.

The more dreams, the more information we have, and the only way for the Seer to get lots of dreams is for the Seer to remain hidden for a while.

Get it?
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Originally Posted by Ang
Incidentally, phantom old chap, are you still into killing Ordinary Elves on Day One to prevent the accidental lynching of a Gifted?
Ha ha ha! That was one of my finest moments, if I may say so. If you recall, that village did not take my Day 1 advice and as a result lynched their own Ranger.

Tsk tsk.... the phantom should always be obeyed.

(gah, I've really got to go to bed now)
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Old 06-08-2006, 02:52 AM   #24
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At least a lynched Ranger leaves a trail of suspicion. A lynched ordinary volunteer is far more grave in that it leaves little apparent room for analysis. (Vide my lynching in WW XII, kind of, though as it turned out the werecreatures were responsible...)

So I would advocate not repeating that particular strategem.

Right. I said I'd be quiet today due to, er, study of Endorian tongues [Latin] and so I am now going to fade off the scene for a bit.
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Old 06-08-2006, 03:04 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macalaure
This way nobody benefits of the seer. Then it's better if he remains silent about his knowledge at all.
I was actually going to suggest something similar to what phantom said. The easiest situation for the ordos is if the Seer can hide themselves among the villagers until they have dreamed of the WPs or many enough villagers in order to guarantee a victory. If we accidentally lynch a couple of innocents along the way because we didn't know who the Seer is, it doesn't matter as long as we can kill every last penguin here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macalaure
In which case he is likely to reveal himself. Then all werepenguins will vote for him and win.
That's true, and it has happened before. Anyway, even though the Cobbler might be able to come up with some mischief even before that, the penguins are our primary target, so let's try to catch them so that we don't get into that kind of a situation at all.

That's it for now. When I return, I hope to have time to take a look at Firefoot and Roa - and sir Anguirel, perhaps.
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Old 06-08-2006, 03:23 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom
I see there is a certain concept you aren't grasping. We don't want the village to benefit from the Seer's knowledge early on, because frankly, if the Seer is giving obvious enough directions for the village to follow, the WPs will instantly be aware of the Seer and KILL HIM!!

That's the LAST thing we want.

We want the Seer to survive long enough to dream of a WP (or two) and then take the risk of revealing his identity.
I do grasp that concept. What I don't grasp is your idea that everybody should act seerish at the beginning in order to hide the seer. This will cause a lot of fuss in which the werewolves maybe can hide, too.
The seer should just remain quiet about what he knows until he knows enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom
Well, what else is there? Villagers know nothing! Therefore a villager cannot possibly make a concrete accusation! The best a villager can do is form theories and analyse voting and posting patterns. You can call this "baseless assumptions" if you wish, but it's the best thing we have until we get our hands on some Seer dreams.
But wouldn't it help to do exactly that in a logical manner, as Roa suggested right away, instead of:
Quote:
I would recommend that everyone drop a hint of innocence about a fellow villager or two in the following days as if you were the Seer and had dreamed that person innocent.
Just asking.
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Old 06-08-2006, 04:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macalaure
What I don't grasp is your idea that everybody should act seerish at the beginning in order to hide the seer. This will cause a lot of fuss in which the werewolves maybe can hide, too.
The only people making a fuss about it right now seems to be you. Usually people make cases to defend and accuse their fellow villagers. A couple of Seerish hints here and there doesn't make the situation for the ordos any different because they know to disregard them while the Seer is still alive and they ponder the analyses, but the WPs won't be able to take advantage of that strategy at any point.

Quote:
The seer should just remain quiet about what he knows until he knows enough.
That's for the Seer to decide.

Quote:
But wouldn't it help to do exactly that in a logical manner, as Roa suggested right away, instead of:
Worry not, it's the custom to be as reasonable as possible. The thing is that only the WPs and the Seer in this village know something for sure, but it doesn't stop the rest of us from analysing everything that talks.

Now I'm seriously going.
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Old 06-08-2006, 04:38 AM   #28
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I still don't understand it. *sighs*

Giving seerish hints while not being seer and being as reasonable as possible doesn't mix to me.


But that's why I only joined a Junior game, so never mind. I'll just wait and see... er, read.
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Well yeah, but if that situation comes up a clever villager could preempt the WPs and step forward and claim to be a WP and demand that the Cobbler vote with him. Then perhaps a real WP would step forward to contest the claim? Then it would be up to the Cobbler to decide who was the real WP.

Even if the Cob is the tie-breaking vote, he might not necessarily vote the right way- that is if the remaining villagers are also pretending to be WPs.
The cobbler votes for theirself. Wolf votes with cobbler. Game over. (See WW VII)
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:49 AM   #30
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Those poor pretty penguins...I just never expected they might be evil! My dear Phantom (which phantom were you, again?), your extensive knowledge of them frightens me, for I know little about anything.

I'm enjoying my nice low-stress existence though...my ancestors have had a viciously evil streak that seems to be skipping the proverbial generation right now.

Come on guys...can't we get past all this Gifted-talk? It makes me terribly nervous. If you start speculating on who's gifted I'll be forced to distribute earplugs so the penguin-cursed on this little isle won't be able to hear you.

Anyway, I think the phantom, Encai, and Valier are looking rather avian.
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Old 06-08-2006, 06:04 AM   #31
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Well, this is all very civilised. After the epic dimensions of the last village I lived in, just a page to be getting on with. In fact, I feel quite up to a post analysis.

Phantom: disses penguins. Second post, answers Roa by pointing out cobbler is clueless. Says it is possible to make up theories about anyone, innocent or guilty.
Third post: don’t worry about Cobbler. That a clever villager could, at crunch-time, fool the Cobbler by impersonating a WP. Tells the Seer not to hint until tomorrow. Asks people to drop hints about innocents to help hide the Seer. Says Spawn is a WP, presumably in jest.
Fourth post: says he hadn't thought of a self-vote, that people shouldn’t be able to vote for themselves. (Tell that to Nilp and Guy!) Continues to explain Seer theory to Mac, that Seer must remain hidden.

Roa: prefers to analyse than theorise. Worries about cobbler, and warns against “faulty logic or baseless assumptions” and people stating theory as fact.

Eonwe: jokes with Roa, and then agrees with both Roa and phantom about Cobbler.
Second post, jokes with Boro about strangeness, points out possibility of double or triple bluffs.

Diamond: jokes, votes for Eomer. I do sympathise…
Second post, talks about the possibility of the Seer revealing the Cobbler by saying “ignore what x says.” (A bit odd – if the Seer was revealing anyway, then simply saying x is a Cobbler should be more straightforward. And for the Seer to reveal for the sake of unmasking a Cobbler seems foolhardy)

Boromir: posts in character but then says odd things. Talks about the confusion caused by the cobber, and also agrees with phantom, that the cobbler doesn’t know anything, but then seems to say it is important to lynch him anyway, which is I think what Roa was saying.
Second post – finds Valier and Eonwe “too strange” to be WPs. Is good with Firefoot because of her Cobbler comment. Sees nothing in the posts of Roa, phantom or Diamond.

Valier – first post is vintage Valier fuzzy logic. It’s early days, of course, but her family are famous for their instincts, if they are innocent…

Firefoot: continues the Cobbler debate. Makes the point (correct IMO) that the Cobbler is only really dangerous when s/he survives towards the end.
Second post: points out (which Mac already did) that Cobbler and wolves could all vote for Cobbler.

Jenny: says Cobbler is useless without the werecreatures. Voices half-jokey suspicions of phantom?
Second post: Keeps talking about phantom’s suspiciousness, and mentions own innocence. Says we should stop talking about gifteds. Says phantom, Encai (who hasn’t posted yet) and Valier are avian.

Naria – checks in to say she’s tired.

Macalaure – points out his nervous newbie status. Interprets Phantom’s post as an invitation to random lynching. Re-opens Cobbler debate, makes quite interesting point about distinction between cobblers and WPs. Thinks the arguments of innocents will be more logical than those of the guilty. Again points to newbie status.
Second post: answers phantom’s point about WP impersonation by saying the WPs could all vote for the Cobbler. (A good answer, actually) Also argues that people shouldn’t impersonate Seer.
Third post: continues to argue with phantom about Seer Impersonation, pleads for logic rather than confusion.

Anguirel – wants to fight phantom, finds him sensible so far but also guilty til proven innocent. Thinks Eonwe’s contributions are slight, Diamond’s are worrying and Valier’s are normal. Thinks Boromir’s first post is unhelpful but his second better. Thinks Firefoot’s headless chicken suggestion is sensible (!?) and fears her most, along with Boromir and phantom, as WP.
Second post: answers Mac’s Seer point, and agrees with phantom – although he remembers phantom might be guilty and thus ironic. Then says he doesn’t want hints at all. Remembers phantom’s “deliberate lynching of innocent” scheme, disagrees with it.
Third post: answers phantom, points out lynched volunteer leaves no trail.

Spawn: Agrees with Seer Impersonation plan. Thinks Mac’s Cobbler point is correct but hopes it won’t come to that.
Second post: argues, but in reassuring way, with Mac. Thinks a few Seerish hints harmless, that while everyone will try to be reasonable only the WPs and Seer know things for sure.

Yet to post: Kitanna, Encataire

This analysis is as much for my benefit as everyone else's. At the moment, I can only presume my own innocence. Looking over it, I'm quite interested in a few things, such as people who seem to be taking up two points of view simultaneously, and Mac's and phantom's interplay. Back for more, later.
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Old 06-08-2006, 07:22 AM   #32
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Just dropping in to let everyone know that I won't be around until the very end of the day (last half hour).

Are there double lynchings? If so, I'll be around to make sure one doesn't happen. See ya later.
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Old 06-08-2006, 07:34 AM   #33
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Some interesting discussion we've had since my last visit.

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Haha! Yes but think of the double-bluff implication on that one will you! And don't complain to me if the triple-bluff gets to you. You signed up for this were-penguine expose!~Eonwe
The only person I would expect to double-bluff is phantom...and actually I wouldn't put it past Anguirel either. Now that I say that I'm probably going to get double-bluffed out of my mind by everyone I least expected to.

Ok, so we have three little devil penguins in the village, and 14 villagers, which means approximately 1 wp to 5 innocent. So here goes my process of elimination:

Valier
Diamond18
Naria
Macalaure
Lalaith
Firefoot
Jenny
Roa
phantom
spawn
Kitanna
Encaitare
Anguirel
Eonwe


Like I said before I doubt wp's would be this eccentric and wild in the beginning. So for now there's no reason to suspect Valier.

I wonder if Diamond was making fun of me when in a past village my great grandfather first voted for Saucepan Man, but SpM wasn't even a member of the village. Oh boy that was fun. Anyway, like Valier seems to eccentric to be a wp. But this I do find odd:
Quote:
A possible scenario would be for the Seer to dream of the Cobbler, and if/when they reveal, they can just tell us to ignore whatever that person says. But as this scenario requires the Seer revealing (and consequently dying) I still think that lynching the cobbler (or laughing when the penguins kill him/her at night) would do us just fine.
And exactly why would we want the Seer to do that? If someone comes out and says...don't pay attention to this person, then the penguins are going to find the Seer rather easily.

Also, and I'm going to need a mod ruling on this one, if I remember correctly since the Cobbler is an ordinary villager, if the Seer dreams of the cobbler all the seer is told is that person is innocent. Since the cobbler is a villager...just a twisted villager.

Naria I don't know at this point. Naria seems to be one of those silent contributors. Doesn't have to post a lot (unlike me) to have solid input and contribution to the village. I will be expecting to see more substance instead of just, hi I'm tired bye, but in this early going there's no reason to cry penguin.

Macalaure is just catching onto the game, which means he's one of the most innocent looking ones to me so far. His lack of understanding and his objection to phantom's proposal speaks towards his innocence. There's no reason for penguins to attract that much attention to themselves early in the beginning. Seems like he's your ordinary innocent that is trying to help the village.

Lalaith, I don't mind summaries, really I don't see a point...i guess it's more for organization, I'm never going to use it. There's nothing particular that waves a flag for me in Lalaith's post.

Firefoot, if innocent can greatly benefit the village, if penguin would probably be our demise. But we shouldn't lynch a player like Firefoot on Day 1, unless she wants to tell us a little secret that only 2 other people know?

Jenny just doesn't sit right with me. Seems like she's trying to squelch conversation and that's all we have on Day 1. Says if we start speculating who is gifted she thinks the penguins will catch on too easily. Now that I see sense in, if someone suspects a gifted, it's best to keep your mouth shut and keep it to yourself. But you see here Miss Embroiderer no one is talking about who is gifted, we are formulating a plan and possible strategies that the gifteds might want to try if they so desire.

Roa there is a common misconception about theories, everyone seems to think it's just baseless and preposterous. Now a true theory is a hypothesis based UPON facts. So, the facts are sitting out there and then based on those facts you form a hypothesis which = theory. And for everybody except the wps and the Seer all we have to find the penguins are theories. Which means taking facts, like what people say, how they vote, who's killed...etc taking that knowledge and using it to present a hypothesis that is backed up by facts (aka a theory).

phantom seems like the normal which leaves me undecided on him right now. He always comes out and talks strategies and plans these crazy schemes that everyone just disregards. So phantom is acting the same, but phantom will play the same whether he be innocent or a devil penguin. So I see phantom and Macalaure's little disagreement as two innocents, phantom proposes a plan and as usual somebody thinks it's crazy. But of the two I would expect phantom to be the penguin.

Spawn backs up and says she was going to say something like the phantom, for everyone to just leave clues on who they feel is innocent. Seems a little fishy to me...trying to associate yourself with an innocent perhaps?

Anguirel, has popped in couple, said his say, nothing strange there.

Eonwe Seems like she's having some Day 1 fun, but I hope that changes from our herald.

Well I think that's everybody and now on "phantom's plan". Now, correct me if I interepretted this wrong, but to me, this sounds like you're proposing all we do is sit and post a couple people to be innocent, name no one you think is guilty, this way the Seer can stay hidden.

Of course the Seer needs to stay alive as long as possible but this can be done without this strategy. Long long time, some 20 mega-zillion years ago my ancestor, the first of my family line to be haunted by wolves (as well as a werebear) was the Seer. And stayed until near the very end when at last revealed himself assuring victory for the village. And I'm reminded of my fathers game not too long ago...ok so my father didn't do so well, but Lommy our seer stayed out of wolf hands and when the time was right revealed herself.

Anyway, what I'm saying is theories, and who we find "guilty" is all we have (excluding the Seer) and that's OUR way of finding penguins. If we just go around claiming who's innocent we have nothing to go off of when it comes to voting, and who knows who'll be lynched. A talented and gifted Seer can effectively stay hidden without having to do this.
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Old 06-08-2006, 07:58 AM   #34
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I'm not trying to squelch conversation. I'm trying to turn it from fruitless cobbler-and-see talk to penguin catching. I've been in 3 separate villages where an evil villager was lynched on the first day, and I'm the last person you'll see complain about not having much to go on on day 1, especially since I ascribe none of those kills to luck.

I want to figure out who the evil ones are! And you, Boromir, have obliged by moving your focus. Thank you.

That quote from Diamond...I must have missed it. But she knows better! Must reread. Again. I really shouldn't contemplate village (I mean icefloe) matters at the same time as *aHEM* embroidering for my livelihood. I get confused.
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Old 06-08-2006, 08:27 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macalaure
Giving seerish hints while not being seer and being as reasonable as possible doesn't mix to me.
It can be just a choice of words or whatever. Ask Boromir because he can seereally how that is to be done. (Just to be clear, I'm referring to an old incident here)

I think I could make a case against every one of you now, but maybe that's not very reasonable considering that many of you have posted only once, so I shall wait until more posts will come.

In the meantime, I'm worried about Ang.

His first post is a noble attempt to make an analysis with minimal amount of material. Maybe a bit too noble, actually.
At that point ten people had posted and he picked six of them (who had posted once or twice) to inspect. All the statements of the villagers contain a positive and negative side, but we don't get any kind of a real conclusion of that. Yes, it's hard to tell, but that hardly provokes discussion and it's something a WP would want to do in order to appear helpful.

-He said that he likes fighting with phantom, but phantom makes sense. Ang is suspicious of phantom until he's proven innocent, but he agrees with phantom's points.
-Ang said that Eonwe hasn't contributed much, but defends him by saying that there's not much material in the village anyway.
-Diamond was worrying, but she could have been more worrying while Boro's first post looks a bit unhelpful, but the second one is better.
-Valier isn't very suspicious because she behaves normally, and Ang agrees with Firefoot although he's afraid that she could be a WP. Still, he doesn't want to lynch her for that - yet.

In Ang's second post he answers Macalaure that the Seer theory has two sides, but phantom's plan seems pretty good unless he is a WP. Next thing he says that he'd rather not have hints at all because we should concentrate on the enemies instead of gifteds. To me the plan isn't about concentrating on gifteds, but trying to distract the WPs while we pay attention to catching them.

He asks if phantom wants to go with his ancestor's plan about lynching volunteers and says that he'd not support the idea.

In his third post Ang just refers to his ancestor and explains why he thinks that lynching volunteers is a bad idea. Well, why to bring it up in the first place, then?

All in all, Ang has been more, well, not necessarily flip-floppy, but careful than what I would have thought. I don't get the usual innocent feeling when reading his posts, and having no certain opinion about anything looks penguinesque, so I look forward to his future posts.


Oh, and what makes Jenny leave Cobblerish hints on purpose, I wonder...


ps. Please, people, read the rules, and you'll find playing much easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rules
In this game, the cobbler will be seen as the cobbler by the seer when dreamed of

There will be no double-lynches
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Old 06-08-2006, 09:03 AM   #36
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Yes, I was just going to say that, Spawn (regarding rules...)
Also, interesting what you say about Anguirel - I'm inclined to agree. Ang is usually one of nature's Cobblers but RL pressures might make him less playful than usual.
I agree that Ang should be watched closely - also Di, who can hide much behind the kooky facade, and Macalaure, so keen to emphasise his newbie status and yet able to worst phantom on the cobbler issue.
I am also having bad feelings about my old comrades in evil, Boro and phantom.
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:05 AM   #37
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I'm finding it interesting (not suspicious, necessarily) that already we've had two people try to do full out analyses on everyone (Valier's doesn't really count, I'd expect stuff like that on Day 1)... to be quite honest, I wouldn't have thought there enough material to be worth doing them. For myself, I'm not really seeing anything particularly notable or suspicious yet...
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Tsk tsk.... the phantom should always be obeyed.
When we start doing that, that's probably when you turn up as a wolf...
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom
I would recommend that everyone drop a hint of innocence about a fellow villager or two in the following days as if you were the Seer and had dreamed that person innocent. That should make it easier for the Seer to hide.
This is also a good plan because if a non-gifted villager drops a subtle hint on who they think is guilty and turns out to be correct the penquins may kill him/her thinking they had gotten the real seer. Of course we would lose an innocent in the process, but our seer would be intake.
I think phantom's plan is a good one, but if everyone is dropping hints to mask the real seer we have to remember WP are doing it too. They can hide in hint-dropping as well.

Quote:
Macalaure=I do grasp that concept. What I don't grasp is your idea that everybody should act seerish at the beginning in order to hide the seer. This will cause a lot of fuss in which the werewolves maybe can hide, too.
Yes they can hide too, but think of it this way. We're all dropping hints, the WP's are picking through random hints trying to find our seer, they kill an innocent, another day begins with random hints, they pick another innocent. If they do end up getting the seer we will have hints to look at, a clever seer can make a dream into a hint that is easily decoded. And if we are in danger of lynching the seer one day, they come forward and reveal what they know. That night if the ranger is alive still he/she protects the seer and we are blessed with one more dream. In any case though the WP's can hide like the seer, the pros of phantom's plan outweigh the cons.

Quote:
Jenny=If you start speculating on who's gifted I'll be forced to distribute earplugs so the penguin-cursed on this little isle won't be able to hear you.
Thus assuming you know who the three cursed are, because I'm pretty sure you don't have earplugs for the whole village. Embroiderers don't make that much...

Quote:
Boromir=
Macalaure is just catching onto the game, which means he's one of the most innocent looking ones to me so far. His lack of understanding and his objection to phantom's proposal speaks towards his innocence. There's no reason for penguins to attract that much attention to themselves early in the beginning. Seems like he's your ordinary innocent that is trying to help the village.
I quite agree, though I'm not a fan of him using his newbie status in his first few posts, I think his speaking against phantom's plan speaks highly of him, at least for today.

Quote:
Anguirel=
Unless he himself is one of our foes and has already spotted a hint, in which case his proposed strategy is hideously ironic.
I don't think it really benefits a WP phantom to make such a suggestion. He could have picked up a hint, but I highly doubt the seer dropped a hint at this point. Boromir said he doubts phantom would be such a double-bluffer, today I'm inclined to believe that. I think it's too early for a WP to give a plan that so endangers their teammates, but of course I've been wrong about these things before. For right now I lean toward phantom being an innocent, though it may change as the days go on.

Quote:
Spawn=
His first post is a noble attempt to make an analysis with minimal amount of material. Maybe a bit too noble, actually.
I don't really find a lot of suspicions in Anguirel's first post. He's doing what he can with what he's got. I'd be more concerned with Anguirel jumping on phantom's ideas the way he does. He whole-heartdly agrees with phantom's cobbler and seer ideas without (or it seems to me) really giving thought to what might go wrong with them. Anguirel is a bit suspicious to me, but not overly so. I would like to watch him for a bit.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Thus assuming you know who the three cursed are, because I'm pretty sure you don't have earplugs for the whole village. Embroiderers don't make that much...
I'll have to make them from embroidery thread, but luckily my basket seems to have gotten lost with me. *sets to earplug manufacture*
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:09 AM   #40
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Um, okay, I hope all this Werewolf 101 stuff is mostly for the benefit of Mac, because it's seriously boring. Yeah, the Seer wants to say hidden until s/he has gathered enough info to be useful. Yeah, we're probably bound to lynch a few innocents on the way. Yeah, the Cobbler can vote for his/herself. Yeah, some ordo's may want to act Seerish to deflect attention from the real Seer.

Maybe it's the lack of Noggie playing, but where are the actual crazy theories and real debates?

I tend to agree with those who see little point in the analyzations so far. I admit that I skimmed the ones posted so far. I mean, I just read the posts they're analyzing.

Boro... no, I'm not making fun of you. I didn't even know about that mishap. I was just taking out some latent, um, frustration from the last game I was in. I did not get to vote the last day, but surely would have voted Eomer if I'd gotten to the thread 2 hours earlier than I did.

Also, I wasn't saying the Seer should reveal just for the sake of revealing the cobbler. Ha, ah ha ha ha. I was just saying that, if the Seer feels the need to reveal a Penguin or two (for example, in the first game I played in, you revealed KuruWolf after FeaWolf was already dead, and left us to find KitWolf ourselves) and also happened to know who the Cobbler is, they could let us know. But the Seer should only reveal if s/he has actual Penguin-centric information to share. The Cobbler would just be icing on the cake.

Oh yeah, and tp, read the rules. I'm the half-wit around here.
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