Saruman's ring

[Ghanberryghan]

"But I rode to the foot of Orthanc, and came to the stair of Saruman; and there he met me and led me up to his high chamber. He wore a ring on his finger."

"For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker..."


"'There is something strange at work in this land. I distrust the silence. I distrust even the pale Moon. The stars are faint; and I am weary as I have seldom been before, weary as no Ranger should be with a clear trail to follow. There is some will that lends speed to our foes and sets an unseen barrier before us: a weariness that is in the heart more than in the limb.'
'Truly!' said Legolas. 'That I have known since first we came down from the Emyn Muil. For the will is not behind us but before us.' He pointed away over the land of Rohan into the darkling West under the sickle moon.
'Saruman!' muttered Aragorn. 'But he shall not turn us back! Halt we must once more; for, see! even the Moon is falling into gathering cloud. But north lies our road between down and fen when day returns.'"

Could Aragorn have been describing the effects Saruman's ring has? Empowering his minions and making it more difficult for his foes to succeed? Isengard was always meant to be a lesser version of Morder, so could Saruman's ring have had some of the similar effects of the One but to a lesser extent?

[Ardent]

Originally Posted by Ghanberryghan

...Isengard was always meant to be a lesser version of Morder, so could Saruman's ring have had some of the similar effects of the One but to a lesser extent?

Sauron put both his power and his own character into his Ring, which is why anyone else wearing it would be corrupted by it. I do not think it's a case of the similarity lying in the rings (of Sauron and Saruman) but in their makers who, unlike the elven ring maker and bearers, both wished to dominate. Both Gandalf and Galadriel give us a glimpse of what they could become if they wished to dominate, and each would be terrible in their own way.

I suspect that Downers who know more about the lore of the Maiar could help here, because Radagast (one of the seven Maiar) was sent to Middle Earth by the Valar who sang growing things into being, but I do not know what aspect of the creation song Saruman corresponds to.

[Zigûr]

Saruman was (like Sauron in fact) a Maia of Aulë the Smith, whose power lay in crafts and arts and things made with hands and with skill, and in the substances of which Arda was made and the shaping thereof. Saruman's own power seems to have been similar - his attempts to forge a Ring and his knowledge of Ring-lore for instance, and in the perversion of these gifts his breeding of hybrid Orc-Men and the industry of Isengard. Saruman's ring is an interesting matter because of how briefly it's mentioned and then never referred to again. I always assumed that this, combined with his desire to find the One, implied that his own ring was only an experiment which had not particular succeeded. It's worth remembering that there were elements of Ring-lore which were lost after the Second Age. Consider Professor Tolkien's remarks about Saruman in the Foreword to the Second Edition of The Lord of the Rings when he speculates on a deliberately allegorical plot focused on the Second World War: "Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth." (xv)
While the shadow and will which emerges from Isengard during the events of Book Three is ambiguous as to its source, I would suggest that it is not related to the power of a ring so much as it is within the power of an Ainu (even, apparently, as a Wizard) regardless: remember that during the War of the Ring Sauron was also able to invigorate his own forces and oppose the wills of his enemies even in the absence of the One Ring.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Ghanberryghan

Could Aragorn have been describing the effects Saruman's ring has? Empowering his minions and making it more difficult for his foes to succeed? Isengard was always meant to be a lesser version of Morder, so could Saruman's ring have had some of the similar effects of the One but to a lesser extent?

There have certainly been many guesses regarding Saruman's ring, and since there is no real evidence what it really did, we are completely free to guess.

I can tell my personal opinion about what it did, then. Since the "evil will" which suddenly seems to appear and weaken and such occur pretty often in Middle-Earth (when Frodo is in Morgul valley, when Riders appear, on Caradhras, and so on - and in neither of the cases it is explicitely connected to the Ring, the Ring may at most "trigger" it - but in any case, it is not the wielder of the Ring who triggers it), I do not feel it necessary to connect it to Saruman's ring specifically (Sauron also does not hold his Ring at the time, yet the evil will weakens the Hobbits as they try to walk to Mordor, and that's not even conscious effort, since Sauron doesn't know about them). There are many possibilities, the effect of speeding up the Orcs and weakening Aragorn and co. could have been simply Saruman's personal power (he was a powerful being, anyway), maybe even "unconscious", or just some "air" coming from his seat at Isengard. Or a "spell", if you will. So my personal opinion is that it didn't really have anything to do with the ring (not directly, at most the ring could have e.g. "amplified" Saruman's power, but Saruman could have done the same thing even without it, only to a lesser effect, for example). But that is purely personal opinion. You can think of what you find the most probable.

As for the Ring, one could think about several ways Saruman could have decided to use it. Once again, listing some personal opinions, but based on what we know about Saruman. I think he could have chosen to imbue his ring with power to, for example, give him more power or abilities to control people, "amplify his Voice", and similar things. Or, what I think is also quite plausible, the ring might support further his skills in craft and making of more rings and more "technology" (all this "blasting fire" and things, you name it). Or both, or more.

Originally Posted by Ardent

Sauron put both his power and his own character into his Ring, which is why anyone else wearing it would be corrupted by it.

This is actually pretty important point - but also about the power. So maybe to clarify what I have said above: the Ring would, in some way, be extension of Saruman's own power. So that's why the "craft and manipulation" ideas

I suspect that Downers who know more about the lore of the Maiar could help here, because Radagast (one of the seven Maiar) was sent to Middle Earth by the Valar who sang growing things into being, but I do not know what aspect of the creation song Saruman corresponds to.

Okay, just a correction (now I will really sound like "a Downer who knows more", or tries to sound like that ): it was five Maiar, resp. the five Wizards (Saruman, Radagast, Gandalf, Alatar, and Pallando) were Maiar (of whom there were many, many more), and Maiar usually belonged to the folk of one of the fourteen Valar. Radagast belonged to Yavanna, whose domain were the trees, birds and beasts, but Saruman belonged to Aulë, who was by the way Yavanna's husband, he was the craftsman (we can see this side in Saruman), the maker of Dwarves (although Saruman never seemed interested in this folk). By the way, Sauron also originally belonged to Aulë's folk. The temptation of "misusing technology" is somewhat apparent theme in the history of Middle-Earth.

Anyway, these were just some thoughts related to the topic. I think there might also be still some old thread about this topic, too, if you want to see perhaps some thoughts people had about the topic here.

EDIT: crossposted with Zigur, who is apparently of similar opinion and is able to say the same things in much more brief way

[Elf_NFB]

This is interesting. I always considered Saruman a poser at this point and that his ring was nothing more than adornment.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Elf_NFB

This is interesting. I always considered Saruman a poser at this point and that his ring was nothing more than adornment.

I had been thinking about it that way too, for some time, in the beginning. But then again, it is true that Saruman spent literally hundreds of years by studying the Ring-lore and trying to recover as much as he could about the craft of the smiths of Eregion, so it is actually pretty well-supported to assume that he would have been able to try to create some small Ring of his own.

[Inziladun]

If we look at the reason behind making a Ring of Power in the first place, I'd now be inclined to think Saruman's (assuming he did fashion it) just an ornament.

Sauron made the One and put his power into in order to control the wearers of the other Rings. In doing so, he also took the risk that if the One were ever destroyed, that part of his power would likewise be dissipated forever.

What motive would Saruman have had in trying do the same thing? He could not have exercised control in any special way. A ring created by him should not have led to any increase in his power, or in any of his native abilities. He was already an "inferior" of Sauron's in will and spiritual power, which is why he knew in order to challenge Sauron he must gain Sauron's Ring.

Really, making his own ring wouldn't seem to lead to any specific benefit for Saruman.

[blantyr]

I'm not sure, when Gandalf or Saurman use power, if one can say for certain how much is the wizard, how much the staff, and how much the ring. Some writers are highly specific in the mechanics of their magic. Tolkien, not so much.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If we look at the reason behind making a Ring of Power in the first place, I'd now be inclined to think Saruman's (assuming he did fashion it) just an ornament.

The ornamental function was definitely present ("Look, I am Saruman the Ring-Maker!", he boasted proudly). But I am pretty convinced that wasn't the only purpose, it would have been too little for him to bother himself with it. And certainly he won't proclaim himself "the Ring-Maker" after he'd just successfully created a nice piece of jewellery. Certainly you wouldn't expect Saruman to say things to the effect of "look Gandalf, I have a new handbag."

What motive would Saruman have had in trying do the same thing? He could not have exercised control in any special way. A ring created by him should not have led to any increase in his power, or in any of his native abilities. He was already an "inferior" of Sauron's in will and spiritual power, which is why he knew in order to challenge Sauron he must gain Sauron's Ring.

Sauron had more power when he had the Ring than he would have otherwise. The Ring obviously amplified power, that much we know. It isn't like that Sauron created the Ring, put e.g. half of his power into the Ring, and thus without it, he would have only half of his power, and with it, he would have again just his "normal" power. It isn't like 1-0,5=0,5 and thus in reverse, 0,5+0,5=1. But instead, for some reason, it looks more like Sauron with a Ring equals 1,5 of Sauron rather than just 1 Sauron, if you get my meaning You sacrifice a bit of your power, store it in an item, if you wish, but in return, it would amplify your power - with the risk that if you lose it, then too bad.

Saruman had been researching Ring-lore, he had been interested in making his own Rings, we know about that. If he could create a ring which would make Saruman with a Ring equal to 1,001 Saruman, I think he would still be happy about achieving that. But who says Saruman's ring had to work the same way as the One Ring? The One was very special. But the Elves, Dwarves etc. had Rings with many different and special abilities. For example Thrór's ring "bred gold" (whatever that means, I am imagining bringing some sort of "merchant's luck"), Galadriel's likely helped to preserve Lórien, Elrond's helped him command the river. So why should not Saruman have created something like that?

So I must certainly disagree about that it would "lead to no specific benefit" for him. Besides, he was a Ring-nerd.

Originally Posted by blantyr

I'm not sure, when Gandalf or Saurman use power, if one can say for certain how much is the wizard, how much the staff, and how much the ring. Some writers are highly specific in the mechanics of their magic. Tolkien, not so much.

Definitely. But there is some vague way in which we could say, for example, "the staff increased his power". In the same sense, we can't even state exactly how did the One Ring influence Sauron's power, but we know that he was much more powerful with it than without it, and we know e.g. that the owner of the Ring had the power over the other Rings.

[Ardent]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

... Certainly you wouldn't expect Saruman to say things to the effect of "look Gandalf, I have a new handbag."
...

Now there's a picture:

With a ring on his finger
And bells on his toes
Saruman has many coloured makeup wherever he goes.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

The Ring obviously amplified power, that much we know.

I'm not sure that "amplified" is the best word - "focused" may be more applicable.
I think, for example, of the force a man (or woman) can exert to move a bolder by hand. And then the difference if that same force is directed through a lever; or, even better, through the building of an internal-combustion engine and crane; or, still more, through the production of NitroGlycerin or TNT; or, even more, if the person's abilities are placed into generating an atomic explosion.

• Without the Ring he had a certain force or power, which he could use according to his native and learned skills and talents.
• With the Ring, and the part of his life force he placed in it, he could more effectively direct that force to the domination of other wills. No more did he have to sing a song to a specific being (like Felagund) to master him.

[Sarumian]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

it was five Maiar, resp. the five Wizards (Saruman, Radagast, Gandalf, Alatar, and Pallando) were Maiar (of whom there were many, many more)

We actually know 7 Maiar acting in ME after the War of Wrath - 5 wizards, Sauron and merry old Durin's Bane. But that's true, only 5 of them (the Istari) were SENT to ME by Valar, while the other two remained without a valid permit.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Sarumian

We actually know 7 Maiar acting in ME after the War of Wrath - 5 wizards, Sauron and merry old Durin's Bane. But that's true, only 5 of them (the Istari) were SENT to ME by Valar, while the other two remained without a valid permit.

Well, who knows how many there were in reality, I'd guess much more (a couple of other balrog-like things, and there were also many of the weird creatures that are by some considered Maiar or somehow close to Maiar, like Goldberry, Gothmog the Lieutenant of Morgul and of course the ever-present Tom Bombadil. What I think about those is another topic, but I think it's correct to assume the number of Maiar in Middle-Earth did not end at 7).

[Ardent]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, who knows how many there were in reality, I'd guess much more (a couple of other balrog-like things, and there were also many of the weird creatures that are by some considered Maiar or somehow close to Maiar, like Goldberry, Gothmog the Lieutenant of Morgul and of course the ever-present Tom Bombadil. What I think about those is another topic, but I think it's correct to assume the number of Maiar in Middle-Earth did not end at 7).

Well Saruman was not the only one with the power of the Voice. What kind of beings were dragons in the creation song?

"...were they laughing in their sleeves at him all the time? That is the effect that dragon-talk has on the inexperienced... Smaug had rather an overwhelming personality."