Tol-in-Gaurhoth XV-The Villagers Strike Back!

[mormegil]

Gurthang or Nonna?

Any tips wolves?

[mormegil]

++Nonna

Sorry old lad.

Though I would like to vote for Wayne for his seeming lack of reading.

Evryone can be a hero yea right I am in a rush and got to go good bye.

Even if he is innocent this is death worthy and I cannot believe he would vote Farael at this stage. It forces me to vote for Nonna, whom I think is innocent.

I still think Gurthang to be guilty and would like him gone.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I think it's my responsibility to vote for

++Nonnacedak

so that no-one can pop up and make a tie between him and Farael knowing that we'd lose two innocents at once (I still believe that Farael was sincere and I haven't suspected Menel at all). Okay, it's still possible to make a tie, but not probable.

Edit: Guess what! Cross-posting... again...

[Anguirel]

As in the usual way of things, the wolf o' nine tails was cut off by the howling of the dark tempest that heralded Devouring Hour...

I sense that secrets have been ripped to shreds. Now flesh will be also!

Voting closed. Night 3 ending soon.

[Anguirel]

The conference of the wolf pack was strangely bewildered and flustered on this ight-even though, for once, it was not reacting to a killing. It was as if the regular corpses found as dusk settled had been an oddly familiar, stabilising influence, an axis around which action could move. Faced with no such murder, the wolves were confused, even dismayed.

When Farael began to start a movement against Meneltarmacil, accusing him of "lacking pack spirit", all Angband started to break loose.

"Menel is Sauron and I'm Draugluin!" Mithalwen growled defensively.

"Well I'm Carcharoth!" Farael retorted. "You may have whelped me, mumsie, but I'm a lot bigger than you..."

As the great wolves, their hackles rising, started to spring together, while Eomer chased Wayne and the latter chased a fairy, Gil-Gurth raised his paw.

"We nearly mangled Nonnacedak on the first night! I say we were right then!"

Their lupine nerves shaken, clutching for some kind of sanity as their temper and hunger reared out of restraint, the pack, as one, turned on the luckless scavenger.

"You spared me before!" he shrieked, his voice high-pitched and desperate. "Do it again, please! For yur own good! My power is awesome," he continued unconvincingly, "I'm, er, Sauron! I'm Thuringwethil! I'm Maedhros the Tall! I'm Finrod Felagund! Don't hurt me and I won't hurt..."

At this point mormegil ripped off his forepaw, and the relntless tearing and biting began. It did not cease till the sun began to rise. The wolves looked up from the innocent corpse they were mauling, and remembered the dire words of Huan the Hound:

"Aure entuluva! Day shall come again!"


Dead

Anguirel (Werewolf)-throat cut as he slept on Day 1
Glirdan (Werewolf)-devoured on Night 1
The Saucepan Man (Huan)-murdered by mischance on Day 2
Rune Son Of Bjarne (Dwarven Hero)-drowned in the Sirion through Kitanna's treachery on Night 2
Kitanna (Werewolf)-beheaded in Rune's last act of vengeance on Night 2
Nonnacedak (Werewolf)-mauled mercilessly on Night 3


Living

Mormegil-Crabby Old Wolf
Gurthang-Gil-Gurth
Formendacil-Lobo
Farael-Werewolf In Denial
Lhuna-Girl-Who-Cried-Wolf
Eomer-Black Warg of Rhun
Boromir-Exorcist Specialising in Heroes
Spawn-Wolf O' Nine Tails
Oddwen-Bloodthirsty Whelp
Kath-Runt of the Litter
Mithalwen-Alpha Female
Meneltarmacil-Lone Wolf
Wayne-Fairy Hunter

Well, Day has come again. It will end at 2:00 pm GMT tomorrow. I and Cailin need names from Sauron, Draugluin, Carcharoth and the remaining Heroes.

[Anguirel]

Nonnacadak's stash of unappetising, but nevertheless to wolves appealing, scavenged left-overs had been discovered while his corpse was still being maimed, and the new source of sustenance had led to yet another wild wolvish revel, with howling and Orc-chasing into the early hours of daylight itself. Only the most farsighted of the pack went to their bloody sleeping pallets with foreboding persistently gnawing at their innards.

When the hateful craft of Arien had at last sped its course, mormegil, as the most senior wolf in attendance, and the worst-tempered, if not the largest, called his fellow-lycanthropes to a new meeting-place, at a rocky outcrop overhanging the rushing river, a short distance from where the Dwarf Lord had drowned. Boromir88 had decreed that all further wolfmoots should take place here, in order that the hidden heroes might be disheartened.

But there was one thing about this outcrop that only one wolf, Meneltarmacil, knew. There was a crevice in its centre which could easily be crawled into and left safely, which the Lone Wolf had discovered long ago. He knew and loved this lurking-spot; it provided him with protection from the coldness of the wind, while letting him feel it in his whiskers; and it hid him from the sight of the company he shunned.

He had, it became apparent to the twelve remaining wolves, died here; the struggle had widened the crevice and made it more noticeable. A vast stake had been thrust into the crack, and the Lone Wolf's decapitated head had been impaled with it, the empty eyes staring at the company.

Empty eyes? A punishment usually practiced by wolves on village seers! So Meneltarmacil, the wolves shuddered, must have been their Seer-in other words, Sauron himself!

As a moan of despair began to leap up, a voice of unspeakable power sounded in their dark minds.

They thought they had slain me. But I walk among you still. The guileless Heroes fell straight into my trap. The Lone Wolf was but one of my minions, and of no account!


Dead

Anguirel (Werewolf)-throat cut as he slept on Day 1
Glirdan (Werewolf)-devoured on Night 1
The Saucepan Man (Huan)-murdered by mischance on Day 2
Rune Son Of Bjarne (Dwarven Hero)-drowned in the Sirion through Kitanna's treachery on Night 2
Kitanna (Werewolf)-beheaded in Rune's last act of vengeance on Night 2
Nonnacedak (Werewolf)-mauled mercilessly on Night 3
Meneltarmacil (Werewolf)-hacked to pieces and impaled by Heroes on Day 4


Living

Mormegil-Crabby Old Wolf
Gurthang-Gil-Gurth
Formendacil-Lobo
Farael-Werewolf In Denial
Lhuna-Girl-Who-Cried-Wolf
Eomer-Black Warg of Rhun
Boromir-Exorcist Specialising in Heroes
Spawn-Wolf O' Nine Tails
Oddwen-Bloodthirsty Whelp
Kath-Runt of the Litter
Mithalwen-Alpha Female
Wayne-Fairy Hunter

Wolves, it's now Night 4. Determine who did the deed, or fear more reprisals by Day!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, I missed the chaos yesterday but I was extremely disheartened reading it. We're showing every sign of throwing this away.

I might as well share what my guesses were. I too thought that Meneltarmacil was the Seer and I also thought that Boromir88 was the Hunter. Menel was clearly insightful and his work ensured the ongoing protection of the Seer. Kudos to you, brave wolf! I am very prepared to trust Boromir88 for the time being.

What we really need at the start of this night, though, is clarity regarding the dispute between our self-proclaimed gifteds. If you would be so kind to eliminate this confusion, Mithalwen and Farael.

[Mithalwen]

What is the point - noone listens?

[Boromir88]

If Meneltarmacil turned out to be Sauron I would be seriously suspecting Farael because it would explain his change from defending him to suddenly suspecting him, but now that he is not Sauron I still have my doubts.

What is the point - noone listens?

Unless you know something we don't know, I take Farael's Carcharoth claim as genuine. In any event, however I will be watching him closely.

Gurthang and Wayne top my list today. Gurthang for reasons I explained yesterday, and Wayne for his tying vote for Farael as morm has pointed out. Eomer, you have also been unusually quiet for yourself, I hope you step out more to help us with this task.

[Mithalwen]

Well I am fairly sure Gurthang is at least innocent. But I would be surprised if I am not dead tonight so it is your necks that are on the line ... I am reading everything again but at the moment I think I shall probably vote the same way again.

Wayne at least listened to me. I really feel I sacrificed my self for nothing.

[Boromir88]

The thing is if you are Dragluin you cannot be sure of Farael's guilt. I would surely love to put my trust in you Alpha Female, but seeing as you say you are Dragluin, there is no way you can be sure of Farael's guilt. Also, no one's stepped out to refute Farael's claim, so it makes me thinks he is indeed our Hunter. Though I have been fooled in the past.

Farael's action yesterday of going against Meneltarmacil seemed to be based off of that he attacked me for attacking him, then all of a sudden Menel started attacking him. Which either seems like Menel is Sauron or Menel is a hero. Again, I stick to it that what a blunderous slip up it would be if a hero disguising as Carcharoth would "take down" the very person they unsuccessfully killed the night before.

It's pretty clear and evident that the Heroes thought Meneltarmacil was Sauron, and is a noble sacrifice. To be able to pull off a successful Sauron guise like Menel has done, he had to be right about something. Perhaps we should look through his posts to see what there is?

[Mithalwen]

Well I don't trust him and I can't know true... but basically now even if he is Carcaroth the only way he is any use is if we lynch him. The heroes aren't going to touch him during the day IF he is innocent. Maybe the true Carcharoth hasn't been back yet or seeing how I have been treated doesn't trust you guys.

[Mithalwen]

MEnel led the second attack on Rune. He was on the money. That is why I realsied my mistake and protected him.

Farael made him his target after I had givcen an enormous hint. Therefore I felt (in the 30 minute of seriously slow connection I had before voting closed) I had to protect the know innocent. You cannot be surprised that he is not my favourite person.
Even if he is ?Carcharoth he will be as much use as a chocolate teapot now. As a device to survive until the end it works well.i

[mormegil]

GARN! Well I'm glad they didn't kill Sauron the idiots. But everything went horribly wrong yesterday. Had Menel been Sauron we would have lost a lot of information. Whatever happens today I would like to see a double devouring which includes Wayne. His lack of attention to any detail annoys me and is worthy of death. I really didn't think Nonna was guilty, but I felt forced to vote for him because of Wayne's vote for Farael. It appears at a minimum idiotic and at worst heroic. I say he MUST die today.

Mithalwen I do believe you and Farael and unless somebody claims otherwise I will look to you two for guidance and some clairvoyance to our council. Dependent upon what Sauron knows it may be prudent for him or her to step forward. Unless the moronic heroes have a better idea of who Sauron is than currently they will more than likely go for you Mith. A very sad and tragic loss indeed however you served a very good purpose and have been noble in you sacrifice. No longer will I insult you for you are worthy of praise.

[Boromir88]

Well, if Farael isn't the real Carcharoth and the "true" Carcharoth steps out obviously one of them is a hero. So, we either lynch the hero, or lynch Carcharoth and command him to take down the hero. So, it does no good if the real Carcharoth is simply staying back and hiding.

If Farael is the real Carcharoth then you probably are right in that the heroes aren't going to go after him, so why lynch a gifted? And the reason I didn't want Farael lynched yesterday was because if he was Carcharoth the last person he chose to go down most likely would have been Meneltarmacil. So, we would be down the hunter and what we all feared the loss of Sauron.

Though you are right unless the heroes spot Sauron, you will probably be dead tonight Mith.

[Mithalwen]

Well even I started to doubt Menel was Sauron but he was clearly the most vulnerable. I ma so angry that I was forced out for nothing. The wolves may not have Sauron but they will surely take out the certain gifted tonight before I can protect anyone else .

I have admitted that I was wrong in voting for Menel bu tI redeemed myself. IU alone spotted that SpM was not a good wolf. All Farael has done is vote for innocents & force me to break cover. Why don't you start looking at him a bit closer? So many people suspected him early, why do you all accept his word instantly.

Don't you think it was a bit sus that he suggested that a hero might pretend to be a gifted, was told it was a ridiculous idea noone would believe it and then pretended to be a gifted?

[Boromir88]

We have 11 villagers left (not including myself, because this is my own theory). 11 villagers left...

I trust Mith and Farael as innocent and their claims true. Giving me 9 unknowns.

If Sauron steps out it will be 8 unknowns. However, I don't think Sauron should step out unless he has spotted another hero, or atleast 2 living innocents. If he knows a hero, we will have 1 to go.

If he knows 2 live innocents we will have 6 unkowns, with 2 heroes amongst them, giving us a good advantage as to who to go after. Without their Huan, while the heroes pick off the gifteds it should give us enough time to find the two remaining heroes. However, I don't think Sauron should reveal himself if he hasn't spotted a hero, or if he doesn't know currently 2 living innocents.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If Farael is the real Carcharoth then you probably are right in that the heroes aren't going to go after him, so why lynch a gifted? And the reason I didn't want Farael lynched yesterday was because if he was Carcharoth the last person he chose to go down most likely would have been Meneltarmacil. So, we would be down the hunter and what we all feared the loss of Sauron.

[/B].

Well If you had bothered to read the rules before you threw that spanner in the worksyou would have seen that if Carcharoth is devoured by night he gets to choose a new wolf to die with him. It is only by day when there going to be no new information that he submists a fixed choice.

[Mithalwen]

"Carcharoth- chooses every Day one Werewolf to die with them if they are killed by the Heroes. If the Carcharoth is devoured by Night, they can choose a new werewolf to die with them, who is then killed automatically"

[Boromir88]

"Carcharoth- chooses every Day one Werewolf to die with them if they are killed by the Heroes. If the Carcharoth is devoured by Night, they can choose a new werewolf to die with them, who is then killed automatically"

Yes, but it goes by the last submitted name to be taken down with him. If Farael had not been around during all that hoopla, my guess wash is last submitted name was Meneltarmacil, seeing as Farael wasn't around during all that hoopla.

[Mithalwen]

Where exactly does it say that? My reading of the quote is that IF they are devoured they get a choice subsequent to the devouring. Therfore if eaten Farael, if Carcharoth would be able to choose.

[Boromir88]

Ok, here's how it goes. All through the Night Carcharoth can change who gets taken down with him, if Carcharoth is devoured.

Let's say if Carcharoth is devoured by us. The last name he had submitted before voting, and ending of the night, would have been the one to go down with him. He doesn't get to submit a new name in the middle of the day if he's been devoured. The Last name he turned in during the NIGHT PHASE, is the one that goes down with him.

My guess was the last name he submitted was Meneltarmacil, and Farael (if indeed Carcharoth) wasn't around to hear the pleas for us to change it.

[mormegil]

Mith don't get down. You've done wonderful. It's an amazing feat to protect even one innocent and you were able to throw the Heroes off the trail of Sauron and preserve him/her for a while longer.

Now if there is a true Carcharoth out there and they know that Farael is lying it is your duty to step forward. Unless this happens I will take Farael at his word.

I do agree with Boromir about Saruon, while his/her death is rather doubtful at this point perhaps one extra day of dreaming is worth the risk. Though I say if Sauron only knows of 2 innocents and Mith or Farael is in the group don't come out.

It seems to be a Mith/Boromir show right now with me as a side act, meaning I'd like to hear from others.

[Mithalwen]

I understand what you think - what I want is proof that you are right. What you say contradicts the rule I have quoted.

[Mithalwen]

Morm - I have done my best. Noone thinks I will survive the day. Noone listens to me during the night. I might as well wash my paws of the whole thing and prepare for my long rest.

[Boromir88]

I'm sure Anguirel can come in and back me up, as this is how it's worked since the rule change. If Carcharoth is devoured during the Night Phase, he doesn't get to submit a name during the Day Phase, because of course we get the narration of that Night's devouring.

[Mithalwen]

Well that ain't what it says. Why say they can choose if they are devoured if when they are devoured the last person they nominated dies. I am fairly confident of Anguirels capacity to construct a grammatically and syntactically correct sentence. And the one he has written doesn't tally with what you say.

[Anguirel]

The black whirlwind swirled up, rather annoyed to be disturbed during its dormant hours.

"Mithalwen, I must admit that the grammatically correct sentence was in thank purloined from dancing spawn's edition of the rules with a few names changed, and I cannot take credit for it."

There was a pause as the whirlwind pondered the dispute. Its head was hurting. This was not an ideal situation. It had chosen to oversee the assault on Tol-in-Gaurhoth because it liked torturing and puppeteering helpless victims with suspenseful description, not because it wanted to consider points of rule ettiquette.

Eventually, it decided.

"Purely in order to pluck an answer out of the air, I declare that Carcharoth can change his target if devoured. It increases his power to a reasonable extent and makes things slightly more unpredictable. SO IT IS DOOMED."

[Kath]

I want to trust Mith and I can see where she's heading with killing Farael. He escaped by the skin of his teeth yesterday and is, as has been said, more use to us dead than alive. Since we now have a bit more time and know he will turn up eventually we can decide who we think is still a hero and see if Farael will agree to kill the one who most people are suspicious of. I don't really like encouraging the killing of a 'known' innocent, but unless someone has an absolute and proven suspicion of someone being a Hero it seems the best option. Except of course if our guess is wrong - that's two innocents gone.

So, is it better to:
Kill Farael today and hope he takes a Hero with him.
Not kill him and kill someone we think to be a Hero.

As for my own thoughts, I feel these people (yes including myself!) are innocent:
Eomer
Oddwen
Kath
Mithalwen
Farael
Spawn

Possible Hero's:
Wayne (based on the fact that he hasn't given any clues to his identity)
Mormegil (sorry, I just never trust him and the continual insults are getting on my nerves!)

Completely unsure:
Gurthang
Formendacil
Lhuna
Boromir

So, if we were to kill Farael tonight I would advise against a double lynching as it is possible that we would lose 3 innocents in one Night!

[mormegil]

Ummm, this talk of killing Farael is absurd! He's a known innocent and that in and of itself carries power. Now we are killing him so he can kill another? Why that's ridiculous. Why not merely ask him who he would kill and kill that person leaving a known innocent? Kath this seems a bit too elvish to me. And you suspect me based on my insults? Bah!

[Mithalwen]

No he isn't "known" - he is self proclaimed. I still think he is bluffing but devouring him is win win. I will still probably vote for him but this post ressurrects my suspicions of you mormegil. It was your confess all idea that started this mess.

Kath I think is innocent. Dear little runt, you are the heir of my heart. Alas we shall part soon...

[Kath]

morm, I was simply trying to work out why Mith was quite so insistent on killing Farael. I believe that she is Draugluin and that she has a good brain on her, so I wanted to work out her reasoning.

Now you on the other hand. The brain is there but it is very guarded by this crabby wolf act. And you have not admitted to being a Gifted, and accuse practically everyone else of being a Hero. Just feels like a cover to me.

I don't want to kill Farael. Not today at least. Even if he dies toDay it's better since we'll have had the chance to kill a Hero toNight.

[mormegil]

Mithalwen, how can we believe him to be a hero unless somebody refutes his claim?

[Mithalwen]

Well Farael hasn't posted anything remotely gifted so far has he?

I knew Menel was innocent.

Menel was threatened without foundation.

I identified myself to protect him.

You must understand why I think Farael a hero. He has ruined my success.

I have to go in a few minutes. Please reread through my eyes before you make up your minds.

Kath, I do not suspect anyone who voted for Rune.

Only if the Seer has dreamt about Farael can he be deemed a known innocent.

[Mithalwen]

Well why would they? You don't believe your gifteds when they speak. There is NO POINT IN CARCHAROTH REVEALING HIS IDENTITY . Ergo I do not believe Farael.

My death is near certain today. The other gifteds cannot help me: I can no longer help them. They may not have posted since Farael made his claim. They may as well keep quiet.

[Kath]

Well Farael hasn't posted anything remotely gifted so far has he?

Mith, I'm not sure you can use that as an argument because being who he is gives him no special insight, so there is nothing he can really say.

I would prefer to kill morm or maybe Wayne today and leave Farael for tomorrow, if he doesn't die by Hero hands. Mostly I would like to kill morm.

Any tips wolves?

This comment of his caught my eye yesterday and sent up my morm radar. Sure, yeah, it could be innocent, but then maybe it isn't.

[Kath]

Oh in which case Mith I see your point. Farael has no special insight so where was the point in revealing himself? Farael, when you appear, want to answer that?

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Well why would they? You don't believe your gifteds when they speak. There is NO POINT IN CARCHAROTH REVEALING HIS IDENTITY . Ergo I do not believe Farael.

But there is a point, we have a known innocent and he can play mind games with the wolves. If I were Carcharoth I would not reveal who I would kill with me but I would take suggestions. That way the heroes would be loath to kill him during the day, being an unknown as to who he will kill with him. Therefore it will likely give us a known innocent for the remainder. Now if Farael is not the true Carcharoth then it would be prudent for the true one to reveal him/herself at this time. However if that does not happen I see no need in eliminating somebody I feel is a known innocent. It would be like killing you just so we don't let the Heroes do it.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Kath

This comment of his caught my eye yesterday and sent up my morm radar. Sure, yeah, it could be innocent, but then maybe it isn't

Care to explain why? I was merely looking for insight from my fellow wolves on who I should vote for. Mainly because I believe Nonna innocent but had more certainty of Farael's innocence. I wanted to vote Gurthang but did not want a 3 way tie and likely loose two innocents and give Gurthang a chance to slip away.

We seems to be squandering a great opportunity here. I believe that two people are innocent yet we are talking about killing one of them. Let's leave that for the Heroes to do, let's not kill one ourselves.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by mormegil

It would be like killing you just so we don't let the Heroes do it.

which is what Farael wanted to do to Menel if you recall.