Questions concerning Thranduil - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thalionmar · 08-29-2003, 02:53 PM

I have some queries concerning Thranduil, king of the forest realm of Mirkwood.

How old was Thranduil, was he old for an elf, or was he relatively young compared to elves suck as Cirdan or Galadriel?

How did Thranduil become king of the wood?

Where was Thranduil during the war of the ring and what became of him afterwards?

What would've happened if Thranduil had got the ring from Bilbo, would he wield immense or at least some great power if he possesed it?

Can anyone answer any of these?

Alatariel Telemnar · 08-29-2003, 03:39 PM

Not sure... try theThe Encyclopedia of Arda, it might help

Eruanna · 08-29-2003, 06:02 PM

If you use the search function you'll find quite a few answers to your questions (mostly in the Books thread)
Or try this: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin...c&f=1&t=000345

I hope it helps [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Thalionmar · 08-30-2003, 01:54 PM

Thanks for that link Eruanna, that helped a bit.

Anyone got any idea as to what happened to Thranduil after the war of the ring and what kind of power Thranduil would wield if he got the ring?

Legolas · 08-30-2003, 11:19 PM

What do you mean by power with the ring? What ring? The One Ring? We really have no idea. With an Elven Ring? The same power Galadriel, Cirdan, and Elrond had - the protection/preservation of his community.

After the War of the Ring, Thranduil met with Celeborn to decide on their lands' boundaries. I presume he eventually headed across the sea eventually, like his son.

Thalionmar · 08-31-2003, 03:47 AM

Yeah I meant the one ring, would he wield as much power through it as someone like Galadriel would or not as much if he were to possess it?

09-04-2003, 11:42 AM

Thranduil wasn't as high in the Elvish power hierarchy as Galadriel, Elrond, etc. (i.e. he wasn't of Noldor descent), so he wouldn't have been able to wield the one ring as effectively. (IMHO).

Rick

Sillabub · 09-04-2003, 03:06 PM

I wonder if he left to the gray havens.
why didn't they say his name in the hobbit?

Legolas · 09-04-2003, 06:57 PM

At the time of The Hobbit, the Elven-king was unnamed. Tolkien had no idea he would be writing a far more mature, epic 'sequel' - it was simply a fairy tale, a children's story. The Necromancer was not known to be Sauron then either, nor was Gandalf's extensive history created, nor was Radagast anyone other than Gandalf's cousin that lived in Mirkwood, nor was the significance of the ring of invisibility known. The idea of the One Ring and the Rings of Power wasn't conceived.

[So on and so forth...]

Frodo2968thewhite · 09-04-2003, 10:11 PM

Thranduil, king of the woodland realm, began his reign as the first king of his kingdom, it took place just before SA 1000. Although his kingdom was under frequent attack, it survived. In TA 2941, Thranduil led the Elven armies in the Battle of the Five Armies. And during the WR he repulsed an attack at Dol Guldur. After the fall of Sauron, Thranduil made the southern boundries of his kingdom as the Mountains of Mirkwood. The Woodland Realm survived well into the fourth age. Thranduil was a Sindarin elf, so he was of lesser power than Galadriel, Elrond, & Cirdan. He is an Elf, so if he did have the One Ring, he wouldn't use it.

I hope this helps! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] if you have any more questions about anything, PM me!!!!! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Ainaserkewen · 09-12-2003, 02:27 PM

Even though there is all this info on the downs and in forums and other places, we still don't have the same info on the mirkwood elves than we have on the Noldor. I mean, You know who Elrond and Galadriel are, who their parents are, where they came from, their histories. The mirkwood elves seemed to have come out of nowhere.

A personal belief of mine is that Thranduil and his people are the descendants of Doriath Elves because for one, they lived in a forest, two they both lived in caves underground and it is possible that they could be the same kind of elves. Can anybody prove me wrong? Maybe I missed something.

**The Saucepan Man** · 09-12-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

A personal belief of mine is that Thranduil and his people are the descendants of Doriath Elves

Thranduil's father, Oropher, was a Sindarin Elf from Doriath. And it's likely that there were other Elves in Thranduil's realm who were originally from Doriath. But, I believe that most of them were Nandor, or possibly Avari, ie Elves who never crossed the Misty Mountains and entered Beleriand.

Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 · 09-13-2003, 04:40 AM

I also have a question....

where exactly does it say that Thranduil had golden hair?

Silmiel of Imladris · 09-16-2003, 02:44 PM

Just to add on the topic of Oropher. Oropher was king until the last alliance where he was killed along with two thirds of his army. Or so I read. I am not really sure where it says that Thranduil was blond. It may be just an assumtion because many are under the immpression that most Sindar were blond. Some don't think so claiming that Blond is the color of the high elves hair but I think that is untrue and that their hair can be any color. E.G. Elrond and Galadriel were high elven but only Galadriel was blond and Celeborn was a Sindar but he has blond hair, at least I think that was how he was discribed in the book.

Ainaserkewen · 09-16-2003, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Thranduil's father, Oropher, was a Sindarin Elf from Doriath.

How did you find Oropher? I've never heard of him... Is there a book that I should read?
I always thought that thranduil and his people were mostly in the dark.

Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 · 09-17-2003, 10:07 AM

I think he was mentioned in the Lost Tales, because he wasn't in Sil or Unfinished...but I wouldn't be able to tell you whether it was LT 1 or 2, and definitely not whereabouts (I don't actually have any copies you see).

About Thranduil, a few people have said that he was described as having golden hair in the Hobbit. But I can't find it!

the phantom · 09-17-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

About Thranduil, a few people have said that he was described as having golden hair in the Hobbit. But I can't find it!

If my memory is correct, the Elven King's (Thranduil) hair is described when Bilbo and the dwarves leave the path (to pursue the lights of the elves). When they are close enough to see the feasting elves, I believe Thranduil is described as having golden hair and maybe a crown of Autumn leaves or something similar.

Also, I believe Bombur saw Thranduil in his dreams (when he was unconscious after falling into the enchanted stream).

[ September 17, 2003: Message edited by: the phantom ]

**The Saucepan Man** · 09-17-2003, 07:15 PM

Quote:

I think he was mentioned in the Lost Tales, because he wasn't in Sil or Unfinished...

We do hear of Oropher in UT, in the History of Galadriel and Celeborn (pages 334-336 in my edition). He is also mentioned in footnote 14 in the Disater of the Gladden Fields. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Ainaserkewen · 09-17-2003, 08:45 PM

Oh, see I'm in the process of reading that right now, then I'm off to read the LTs.
I imagine I will learn buckets full of new info from these books.
I wonder whats so exciting about delving so deep into a work of fiction.
Whatever it is, I'm hooked.

Everdawn · 09-18-2003, 02:03 AM

Quote:

I believe Thranduil is described as having golden hair and maybe a crown of Autumn leaves or something similar.

This is true, i read it as well, because i asked myself the same thing, but it is in the Hobbit!

Legolas · 09-24-2003, 08:19 PM

About Oropher, Thranduil, and thoughts on Mirkwood's establishment:

Appendix B, The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves

Thranduil's description in The Hobbit:

Quote:

...and at the head of a long line of feasters sat a woodland king with a crown of leaves upon his golden hair, very much as Bombur had described the figure in his dream.

08-29-2003, 02:53 PM	#1
Thalionmar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Memories of the wise. Posts: 17	Questions concerning Thranduil I have some queries concerning Thranduil, king of the forest realm of Mirkwood. How old was Thranduil, was he old for an elf, or was he relatively young compared to elves suck as Cirdan or Galadriel? How did Thranduil become king of the wood? Where was Thranduil during the war of the ring and what became of him afterwards? What would've happened if Thranduil had got the ring from Bilbo, would he wield immense or at least some great power if he possesed it? Can anyone answer any of these? __________________ Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

08-29-2003, 03:39 PM	#2
Alatariel Telemnar Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: watching the ants closing in Posts: 292	Not sure... try theThe Encyclopedia of Arda, it might help __________________ -Ever wonder whats beyond those trees? -More trees. 'Poor ye. Ye're tied to someone who's been photographed trying to shave their hand... My condolences.'

08-29-2003, 06:02 PM	#3
Eruanna Memento Mori Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Past The Point Of No Return Posts: 1,118	If you use the search function you'll find quite a few answers to your questions (mostly in the Books thread) Or try this: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin...c&f=1&t=000345 I hope it helps [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "Remember, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

08-30-2003, 01:54 PM	#4
Thalionmar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Memories of the wise. Posts: 17	Thanks for that link Eruanna, that helped a bit. Anyone got any idea as to what happened to Thranduil after the war of the ring and what kind of power Thranduil would wield if he got the ring? __________________ Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

08-30-2003, 11:19 PM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,850	What do you mean by power with the ring? What ring? The One Ring? We really have no idea. With an Elven Ring? The same power Galadriel, Cirdan, and Elrond had - the protection/preservation of his community. After the War of the Ring, Thranduil met with Celeborn to decide on their lands' boundaries. I presume he eventually headed across the sea eventually, like his son. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

08-31-2003, 03:47 AM	#6
Thalionmar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Memories of the wise. Posts: 17	Yeah I meant the one ring, would he wield as much power through it as someone like Galadriel would or not as much if he were to possess it? __________________ Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.

09-04-2003, 11:42 AM	#7
Rick Guest Posts: n/a	Thranduil wasn't as high in the Elvish power hierarchy as Galadriel, Elrond, etc. (i.e. he wasn't of Noldor descent), so he wouldn't have been able to wield the one ring as effectively. (IMHO). Rick

09-04-2003, 03:06 PM	#8
Sillabub Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: GONDOR!! Posts: 138	I wonder if he left to the gray havens. why didn't they say his name in the hobbit? __________________ They were holding umbrellas. Not just any umbrellas- BLACK umbrellas. Not just ANY black umbrellas- these were...(knuckle-biting time) the BLACK UMBRELLAS OF DEATH!!!!! cue sinister music

09-04-2003, 06:57 PM	#9
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,850	At the time of The Hobbit, the Elven-king was unnamed. Tolkien had no idea he would be writing a far more mature, epic 'sequel' - it was simply a fairy tale, a children's story. The Necromancer was not known to be Sauron then either, nor was Gandalf's extensive history created, nor was Radagast anyone other than Gandalf's cousin that lived in Mirkwood, nor was the significance of the ring of invisibility known. The idea of the One Ring and the Rings of Power wasn't conceived. [So on and so forth...] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

09-04-2003, 10:11 PM	#10
Frodo2968thewhite Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Shire Posts: 95	Thranduil, king of the woodland realm, began his reign as the first king of his kingdom, it took place just before SA 1000. Although his kingdom was under frequent attack, it survived. In TA 2941, Thranduil led the Elven armies in the Battle of the Five Armies. And during the WR he repulsed an attack at Dol Guldur. After the fall of Sauron, Thranduil made the southern boundries of his kingdom as the Mountains of Mirkwood. The Woodland Realm survived well into the fourth age. Thranduil was a Sindarin elf, so he was of lesser power than Galadriel, Elrond, & Cirdan. He is an Elf, so if he did have the One Ring, he wouldn't use it. I hope this helps! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] if you have any more questions about anything, PM me!!!!! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ INAGURAL GOLDEN RING MARATHON, OCTOBER 20, 2005!!! FRODO LIVES!!!!

09-12-2003, 02:27 PM	#11
Ainaserkewen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A cosmic waiting room Posts: 662	Even though there is all this info on the downs and in forums and other places, we still don't have the same info on the mirkwood elves than we have on the Noldor. I mean, You know who Elrond and Galadriel are, who their parents are, where they came from, their histories. The mirkwood elves seemed to have come out of nowhere. A personal belief of mine is that Thranduil and his people are the descendants of Doriath Elves because for one, they lived in a forest, two they both lived in caves underground and it is possible that they could be the same kind of elves. Can anybody prove me wrong? Maybe I missed something. __________________ Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken?

09-13-2003, 04:40 AM	#13
Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon...or England Posts: 364	I also have a question.... where exactly does it say that Thranduil had golden hair? __________________ '"Forweg can lead you no longer; for he is dead...I slew him...I will govern this fellowship now, or leave it." "As it was when he joined us, so it is again. He kills to make room."'

09-16-2003, 02:44 PM	#14
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	Just to add on the topic of Oropher. Oropher was king until the last alliance where he was killed along with two thirds of his army. Or so I read. I am not really sure where it says that Thranduil was blond. It may be just an assumtion because many are under the immpression that most Sindar were blond. Some don't think so claiming that Blond is the color of the high elves hair but I think that is untrue and that their hair can be any color. E.G. Elrond and Galadriel were high elven but only Galadriel was blond and Celeborn was a Sindar but he has blond hair, at least I think that was how he was discribed in the book. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

09-17-2003, 10:07 AM	#16
Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon...or England Posts: 364	I think he was mentioned in the Lost Tales, because he wasn't in Sil or Unfinished...but I wouldn't be able to tell you whether it was LT 1 or 2, and definitely not whereabouts (I don't actually have any copies you see). About Thranduil, a few people have said that he was described as having golden hair in the Hobbit. But I can't find it! __________________ '"Forweg can lead you no longer; for he is dead...I slew him...I will govern this fellowship now, or leave it." "As it was when he joined us, so it is again. He kills to make room."'

09-17-2003, 08:45 PM	#19
Ainaserkewen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A cosmic waiting room Posts: 662	Oh, see I'm in the process of reading that right now, then I'm off to read the LTs. I imagine I will learn buckets full of new info from these books. I wonder whats so exciting about delving so deep into a work of fiction. Whatever it is, I'm hooked. __________________ Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken?