Did Morgulduin pollute the lower Anduin ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Mouth of Sauron · 04-18-2010, 07:55 AM

The Morgulduin flowed from valley of Minas Morgul down to the Anduin below Osgiliath. Given the poisoned nature of the Morgulduin, did it pollute the whole of the lower Anduin ?

Inziladun · 04-18-2010, 08:13 AM

I would say no. The 'pollution' seems to be referring to some sort of enchantment or magic on the stream, and once out of the area of Minas Morgul, maybe the water would be safe again.
Perhaps a comparison could be made with the enchanted stream in Mirkwood. It flowed into the Forest River, which in turn went to the Long Lake and the River Running. The Lake-men apparently were not troubled by sudden urges to sleep.

Morthoron · 04-18-2010, 12:05 PM

Orcs gotta drink, don't they? Perhaps they had a higher tolerance for e-coli, dysentery, cholera and other waterborne diseases. Perhaps Tolkien was thinking of the Thames, which supposedly looked black and sorcerous until health reforms reduced dumping of human waste, animal offal and manufacturing slag over the last 100 years:

"The whole of the river was an opaque pale brown fluid...surely the river which flows for so many miles through London ought not to be allowed to become a fermenting sewer." -- Michael Faraday, The Times, 1855

'...a dank, stinking sludge, the scene of murders and crime'. -- Charles Dickens

Inziladun · 04-18-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Orcs gotta drink, don't they? Perhaps they had a higher tolerance for e-coli, dysentery, cholera and other waterborne diseases. Perhaps Tolkien was thinking of the Thames, which supposedly looked black and sorcerous until health reforms reduced dumping of human waste, animal offal and manufacturing slag over the last 100 years:

That sounds more like what Sharkey's Men were trying to do in the Shire.

Quote:

'They're always a-hammering and a-letting out a smoke and a stench, and there isn't no peace even at night in Hobbiton. And they pour out filth a purpose; they've fouled all the lower Water, and it's getting down into Brandywine.'

The Scouring of the Shire

What was going on in Morgul looks like something different, more of a spritual decay and corruption rather than a physical pollutant.

CSteefel · 04-26-2010, 10:05 PM

Even in Middle Earth, dilution is the solution...

Blind Guardian · 04-27-2010, 10:20 PM

If there was no magic, then yes, maybe, the river would be polluted out side of Mordor. But since magic exists I would be doubtful.

04-18-2010, 07:55 AM	#1
The Mouth of Sauron Wight Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 196	Did Morgulduin pollute the lower Anduin ? The Morgulduin flowed from valley of Minas Morgul down to the Anduin below Osgiliath. Given the poisoned nature of the Morgulduin, did it pollute the whole of the lower Anduin ?

04-18-2010, 08:13 AM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,036	I would say no. The 'pollution' seems to be referring to some sort of enchantment or magic on the stream, and once out of the area of Minas Morgul, maybe the water would be safe again. Perhaps a comparison could be made with the enchanted stream in Mirkwood. It flowed into the Forest River, which in turn went to the Long Lake and the River Running. The Lake-men apparently were not troubled by sudden urges to sleep. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

04-18-2010, 12:05 PM	#3
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,501	Orcs gotta drink, don't they? Perhaps they had a higher tolerance for e-coli, dysentery, cholera and other waterborne diseases. Perhaps Tolkien was thinking of the Thames, which supposedly looked black and sorcerous until health reforms reduced dumping of human waste, animal offal and manufacturing slag over the last 100 years: "The whole of the river was an opaque pale brown fluid...surely the river which flows for so many miles through London ought not to be allowed to become a fermenting sewer." -- Michael Faraday, The Times, 1855 '...a dank, stinking sludge, the scene of murders and crime'. -- Charles Dickens __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

04-26-2010, 10:05 PM	#5
CSteefel Wight Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 204	Even in Middle Earth, dilution is the solution... __________________ `These are indeed strange days,' he muttered. `Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass.'

04-27-2010, 10:20 PM	#6
Blind Guardian Guardian of the Blind Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Where The Skies End Posts: 899	If there was no magic, then yes, maybe, the river would be polluted out side of Mordor. But since magic exists I would be doubtful.