Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[littlemanpoet]

Maybe I can rustle up all my nieces and nephews at the next family reunion and play an evening game using Mithalwen's plan. Has anybody else played it live instead of online?

[tar-ancalime]

Maybe I can rustle up all my nieces and nephews at the next family reunion and play an evening game using Mithalwen's plan. Has anybody else played it live instead of online?

I used to play a similar game as a kid:

One person was the murderer, and every time the lights went out the murderer would tap someone. That person then lay down on the floor so that everyone would see their horrible mangled corpse when the lights came back on. Everyone else would then have to try to find the murderer before the lights went out again.

Or something like that. There were no special roles, no lynchings, and not as much strategizing. You just had to keep voting till you voted for the real murderer. As I recall, the fun part was when the lights were out, waiting to see who would get it. I'm a little foggy on any other particulars--it was a long time ago--but I've often wondered whether Werewolf is a more sophisticated online adaptation of this game.

btw, regarding time: I'm at a very different longitude from everyone, so I'll make do with whatever time is chosen. I may have to vote early, though, and catch up on the rest of the drama later on. Unless (which I doubt) there are enough people to have a game in which all of us are as far east as I am.

[Formendacil]

I'd like to put name down for Modding a game- sometime in the distant future, whenever my turn comes up.

Now that I have a couple of games under my belt (and probably more by that time), I'd like to try a hand at the non-strenuous role in the game.

And, adding to the topic at hand:

I've played the live game. Up here it's called Mafia, and it's a good deal more boring than the online Werewolf version. In fact, it was bad experiences with the real version that made me end up not joining until WWXI.

The problem with the real version is that you don't have the ambiguity of being online. You can read each other's faces, recognise the cards/paper that mark their roles, hear them whispering or moving when you're "asleep".

It just didn't work for me...

But a lot of my friends loved it.

[Gurthang]

I've played Mafia, too.

The major differences are that in real life you can't go back and see votes or quote what was said. But at the same time, you can judge faces for sincerity or nervousness. I've acted as the moderator, or whatever you want to call it, and I thought it went pretty well. For me, at least, I made sure nobody talked during the night phase. The Mafia just pointed until they had agreed on someone to kill.

A big perk about the real game is that it goes so much faster. That's why I'd be willing to try Mith's idea.

[Anguirel]

I can't recall who's on the list after dancing spawn to mod, but I want to vaguely reserve a future spot at some point. I also hereby patent this game idea-

Tol-in-Gaurhoth-the Villagers Strike Back!

Three heroes, aided by Elvish magic, have taken on the appearance of wolves and infiltrated Sauron's tower, aiming to kill his werewolves as they slumber in the hours of daylight.

Werewolf completely in reverse-killing in the "Day", discussion at "Night", players actually trying to persuade people that they are werewolves to prove their innocence, while the heroes secretly wreak havoc...as for the Gifted Ones:

Sauron, the Seer
Draugluin, the Guardian
Carcharoth, the Hunter

Anyway, idea patented for the future.

[Alcarillo]

Ang, if I recall correctly you already are on the list from some pages ago.

Going through the past pages of this thread, I have created a Waiting-to-Mod list. If anything's out of order or if I missed anyone, just tell me.

1. Orominuialwen
2. Gil-Galad
3. Anguirel
4. Mormegil
5. Alcarillo
6. Formendacil
7. Littlemanpoet
8. Celuien

And I hereby patent for my game: Nyare-nu-Falmar: Tol-in-Gaurhoth during the reign of Ar-Pharazon!

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Alcarillo

Ang, if I recall correctly you already are on the list from some pages ago.

Going through the past pages of this thread, I have created a Waiting-to-Mod list. If anything's out of order or if I missed anyone, just tell me.

1. Orominuialwen
2. Gil-Galad
3. Anguirel
4. Mormegil
5. Alcarillo
6. Formendacil

And I hereby patent for my game: Nyare-nu-Falmar: Tol-in-Gaurhoth during the reign of Ar-Pharazon!

7. littlemanpoet

There, I've put myself down next in line. If the timing's bad, I can always remove my name and jump to the end of the line. I've got some ideas (yes, Feanor, you know what they might be but keep mum, please), either very corrective to some problems I see, or very wild and unpredictable permutations; not sure which way I want to go.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

(yes, Feanor, you know what they might be but keep mum, please)

My lips are sealed better even than the time they got duct taped shut with lips drawn onto the the covering. Though make sure to leave room for me in your game, ol' boy, as there's not a chance that I could resist the possibility of reading my own death as written by you. And besides, surely by the time seven games have come to pass, I'll have more free time.

[Kath]

I'm not sure if I missed signing up here but spawn if there are still spaces available and the game hasn't actually started yet (I can't find evidence of that) then I'd love to be in it, I haven't played in ages.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

If it's not too late, I'd like to play. If I can't there's no big deal, there's probably a reason my academic performance suffers abysmally during werewolf games.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Since i cannot find out if Perky is going start his wwj game any time soon, if he starts it at all. I would like to join the group of people trying to join in this late hour.

It is proberbly better this way, I cannot be playing wwj forever! 2 games in a row must be enough.

[Cailín]

Hey, Alcarillo, you forgot to add my name to the list (see previous page)

But since I'm such a generous person I'll be number 8, then. It's quite a long line now, isn't it?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

What: Tol-in-Gaurhoth XIII, (insert a catchy title here)

When: Starting next Saturday (5th Nov.) at 9:00 pm. GMT.

Who:

1. WaynetheGoblin - goldsmith
2. Glirdan
3. Eonwe - militiaman
4. Meneltarmacil - dinosaur researcher/ fossil hunter
5. tar-ancalime - charlatan
6. Wilwarin538 - official town daydreamer
7. Kitanna - goat herder
8. Kuruharan - local lorekeeper
9. littlemanpoet - village undertaker
10. Celuien - luthier
11. Lalaith - goosegirl
12. Firefoot - traveller who has a dog
13. Bergil - door-to-door salesman
14. Kath - writer
15. Anguirel - jester

Those who were unsure wether to play or not, please tell me asap if you should be on the list or if you want to back out. If the game lasts over 18th Nov, I need a backup mod or then you'll get one extra long day, but we'll see about that later.

Also, choose your occupations or I will do it for you.

[Anguirel]

I can play, indeed. As for my role...I'll be a jester.

[Kath]

Thank you spawn! I had hoped I could get in. I'll be a writer please since that appears to be all I'm going to do this month.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Hey Spawn, can I be in your game? I'm not on the list. If 15 players is your limit, though, that's fine.

[Kitanna]

I think as a job I'd like to be a goat herder.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Hey Spawn, can I be in your game? I'm not on the list. If 15 players is your limit, though, that's fine.

I'd love to have you all in my game, but I'm afraid that it will swell beyond my time and ability to manage.

[Gurthang]

I'm going to have to miss the game. I will be virtually unavailable for about a week starting either this Wednesday or the next. I can't count on being able to get involved. I feel really bad; I really wanted to be in your game, spawn.

But I could be your backup on the 18th, if you'll let me. If I can't make that date (I know of no reason I shouldn't) I'll make sure to contact you as soon as possible so you can get someone else. Again, sorry I can't be in the game.

[wilwarin538]

Well I guess my idea has officially been lynched, crumpled, drowned, shot and over all disliked. But thats fine, I thought that would be the reaction I would get. Just pretend I never brought it up.

As for my role, I shall be the official town daydreamer.

[Eonwe]

um, lets see, ill me a militia man.

ok lets see. if the game starts GMT 9:00 PM, that means it starts at GMT - 5 (EST) 4:00. can somoeone who actually understands timezones tell me if that's right?

and im guessing that Day is 9 am to 9 pm, right? just checking...

[Celuien]

I'll be a luthier.

[the guy who be short]

Though I'm not playing in the next game, I would like to rant about the Cursed Villager.

The rest of the game is based on skill, deduction and intrigue. The Cursed is based on chance. That just plain sucks. For the majority of the time the Cursed doesn't even do anything... it just strikes me as a little rubbish. I'd support the cursed perhaps knowing they were cursed, so that they want to be lynched rather than killed by wolves, or some such thing. Alternatively, they could be replaced by the Cobbler, Bear or other such interesting element.

Rant over.

[Firefoot]

I'll be a traveller, just passing through. And I have a dog.

[Lalaith]

Eonwe, days and nights both last 24 hours.

The idea of the Cursed knowing their status is a really interesting one, twbs but I think they'd have to be forbidden from revealing it....

[Anguirel]

Lalaith's position seconded. And the Seer should still see them as a Villager.

It makes sense-Turin knew about his curse, for instance, but kept it dark...

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Though I'm not playing in the next game, I would like to rant about the Cursed Villager.

The rest of the game is based on skill, deduction and intrigue. The Cursed is based on chance. That just plain sucks. For the majority of the time the Cursed doesn't even do anything... it just strikes me as a little rubbish. I'd support the cursed perhaps knowing they were cursed, so that they want to be lynched rather than killed by wolves, or some such thing. Alternatively, they could be replaced by the Cobbler, Bear or other such interesting element.

Rant over.

It seems that this would just be a powered up Cobbler with even more venom so to speak. I realize that not all cursed would want to be killed by the wolves but a good amount would. I like the fact that nobody knows who they are it keeps one guessing and the village has to keep that element in mind when deciding things. There needs to be some chance to this game.

[Anguirel]

I wonder if there should more general incentive to players to survive till the end in some way, to discourage suicide votes? I don't know, being knighted at the end, or commemmorated in a short bardic song of praise, or something?? This would also help with Curseds aware of their roles, encouraging them to play it cool.

[mormegil]

You see the problem is that in this case the cursed villager role is ambiguous. They don't really know which side they are on and therefore there isn't a set way for them to play...not that there is ever a true 'set' way but you know what I mean.

For me, I like to survive as long as I can but it's truly irrelevant if I last to the end so long as my team wins. That is enough for me. In the last game for example I wish we could have won while I was alive but I felt very satisfied in knowing that while I died I helped my team in victory. The cursed villager takes this away though the cobbler does not.

[Kuruharan]

I wonder if there should more general incentive to players to survive till the end in some way, to discourage suicide votes?

I'm afraid that the only practical solution would be for an adoption of the attitude that if you die you lose, period full stop.(which has been pretty much my attitude from the beginning).

I'll be the local lorekeeper.

[Mister Underhill]

Originally Posted by tgwbs

Though I'm not playing in the next game, I would like to rant about the Cursed Villager.

I kind of liked the idea of the randomness of the cursed in that last game, though I can see where tgwbs is coming from with his rant. The cool thing about the concept of the cursed is that someone who was innocent now switches teams, but timing is important -- too late in the game and there is no way to ferret him out, two early and it spoils the fun of the whole team-switch concept.

Maybe an alternative would be to have the curse kick in no matter what on a set day, whether the wolves attack that villager or not.

[Kath]

Having played in Mith's game as the mythomaniac I always thought the cursed villager was just an non-active version of that and not a majorly interesting role. Having said that I suppose if it were activated it would be interesting.

[Bergil]

rolewise, I'll be somthing scary because it's hallowe'en. how about a door-to-door door salesman?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by tgwbs

Though I'm not playing in the next game, I would like to rant about the Cursed Villager.

I'm not playing in the next game either, but I'll stick my oar in.

Originally Posted by tgwbs

For the majority of the time the Cursed doesn't even do anything...

I couldn't disagree more. For the majority of the time, if not the whole game, the Cursed is an ordinary villager. Most villagers are "ordos", and they usually seem to find much to do. Speaking as one who has been an ordinary villager in every game that I have played except one, I find much to recommend itself in the role (or lack of role).

I like the role of the Cursed, precisely because of its random nature. It adds yet another element of unpredictability. If an ordinary villager becomes a Wolf part-way through the game, it adds an enormous challenge which, to my mind, adds to the "fun" (if you can call it that). In the last game that I was in, the role played a big part as we managed to kill three Wolves but, because the Cursed had turned, we still lost. But it was still touch and go, so it did not swing the game.

If the Cursed knew his or her role, the temptation would be too much to play on the Wolves' side from the start and try to get killed by them, whereas the whole point of the role is that you start out on one side and (if killed by the Wolves) end up on the other.

That said, I am all for varying the roles and leaving the Cursed out in some games, perhaps subsituting the role with that of the Cobbler. Having both is probably too much though, unless there are a lot of villagers.

Originally Posted by Kuru

I'm afraid that the only practical solution would be for an adoption of the attitude that if you die you lose, period full stop.(which has been pretty much my attitude from the beginning).

Again, I couldn't disagree more. I have always viewed this game as a team game. If I die, I still root for my team and feel that I have the right to share in their victory if they win (not that that has happened much ). Quite often, you can't help being killed. Games usually last at least 4 or 5 days and people are bound to get killed through no fault of their own, perhaps because they are the type of player that the Wolves generally want to eliminate, perhaps because they made a few wrong accusations (practically inevitable at some point, even with the best will in the world), or perhaps because of sheer bad luck. Moreover, dying in the village's cause (for example a gifted revealing themselves at an appropriate point and thereby signing their own death warrant, or an ordinary villager playing like the Seer so as to protect him or her) is often a noble strategy, and one which should not be penalised by assigning - sorry, consigning - the player to the losing side if it plays a part in his or her team's victory. Same goes for Wolvish sacrifices intended to establish the "innocence" of fellow Wolves.

*rant over*

Edit: And I would add that playing purely to preserve your own life can often hamper your team's cause.

[Glirdan]

rolewise, I'll be somthing scary because it's hallowe'en. how about a door-to-door door salesman?

OOO!!! GOod idea Bergil!! Can I be the undead? Or something even scarier, Micheal Jackson!! Or even worse, Micheal Jackson's nose!!!! No, let's go with the undead. And if I can't be that, I'll let you decide for me Spawn my friend.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Gurthang, hey, don't worry. That's quite alright. And thanks for the offer! It's actually on 19th (Sat.) when I might need a little help or then the players have to settle for one 32-hour-long day, if the game hasn't ended by then. But you can be my backup mod if you only have time.

Eonwe, as Lalaith said, Days and Nights are both 24 hours long, so notice that the game might last over 14 real life days. Here is a nifty page where are two clocks. The other shows current time in GMT and the other in EST.

Glirdan, I have to think about that...

If you want to know, what I think of the Cursed, reread Saucy's post.

[Lalaith]

I'm in and I'll be a goosegirl.

[Kuruharan]

I have always viewed this game as a team game. If I die, I still root for my team

Well, naturally, you still root for your team.

and feel that I have the right to share in their victory if they win

This is a matter of personal philosophy. Your side may win, but I don't think you get to claim victory for yourself.

This is why I detest the role of Cobbler so much. It is a role destined to lose no matter what.

Quite often, you can't help being killed.

Such is life.

Moreover, dying in the village's cause (for example a gifted revealing themselves at an appropriate point and thereby signing their own death warrant, or an ordinary villager playing like the Seer so as to protect him or her) is often a noble strategy, and one which should not be penalised by assigning - sorry, consigning - the player to the losing side if it plays a part in his or her team's victory. Same goes for Wolvish sacrifices intended to establish the "innocence" of fellow Wolves.

This is true. But I don't look at it as being put on the losing side. The losing side is the losing side. You can die on the winning side but I don't think the dead player can really claim too much credit for the victory. That is what makes it a noble sacrifice.

There is something very Tolkienish about that.

[Eonwe]

Thanks spawn! that makes it all clear!

another thing: have you decided on what kind of roles there will be? just curious.

[The Saucepan Man]

Sorry, Kuru, I still disagree.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

You can die on the winning side but I don't think the dead player can really claim too much credit for the victory.

Of course you can if you contributed to the victory (and most members of either team will make some contribution or other, however small).

I liken it to the situation of the footballer who is substituted during the cup final or the squad player who does not play in the final match of a championship-winning season. They still get winner's medals. Likewise with the drivers who are not piloting the car as it crosses the line in an endurance motor race. They are part of the winning team, even though they did not participate at the conclusion, and so share in the victory.

And, as I said, if you play purely for your own self-preservation, you are generally unlikely to be helping your team as much as you could.