A thought/question concerning Mumakil

[Knight of Gondor]

I thought about posting this on The Movies, but it's probably more of an N & N question. The orc-forces had the Oliphants with them (actually, I think they came with the Haradrim, but whatever) to join in the siege of Gondor. But what good are the Mumakil on the plains? If there are ranks of troops, then yeah, they are deadly. But they came intending to assault the mighty walls of Minas Tirith! What, are the Oliphants going to charge the walls? Can the troops in the battle towers jump from the towers over the walls? It seemed a little impractical for the tactics they were planning. Thoughts?

[Imladris]

If I recall from my readings, they carried a bunch of stuff on their backs, such as people. I would also imagine that they used the Oliphaunts for hauling the catapults, ammo, etc around. I guess they could have been the "Pack mules" of the army. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] But that's just my most humble opinion.

[Earendilyon]

I can't recall that they are mentioned in the Battle of the Pellenor Fields (in the book, that is).
The are ofcourse mentioned in the battle Frodo and Sam witnessed in Ithilien. As those were on their way to Mordor, I imagine they would have been used in battle on the Dagorlad, if there would be a battle there.

[Noxomanus]

I suppose you don't know the power of an elephant (or Oliphaunt) in battle? An elephant can surely kick in the door,so to speak. I wouldn't want to be at the other side of a door with a batter-ram elephant on the other side!

[Elassar 516]

The mûmakil are defineitly at the battle of the Pelennor Fields in the books. And they had plenty to do because there was fighting outside the walls.

And now the fighting was waxed furious on the fields of the Pelennor; and the din of arms rose upon high, with the crying of men and the neighing of horses. Horns were blowing and trumpets were braying, and the mûmakil were bellowing as they were goaded to war. Under the south walls City footmen of gondor now drove against the legions of Morgul that were still gathered there in strength.

And Noxomanus, the mûmakil were hardly kicking in the doors, they used Grond for that [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].

[rutslegolas]

i think that the oliphaunts are really good for fighting against foot soldiers(infantry)

and they could easilt trample over a "eored"
of horses of rohan in close formation

or they could just trample the knights of gondor

and on the oliphaunts there were siege towers or catapults which they could use to launch an assault over the walls of minas tirth

so i guess they were really important in the battle

[Firefoot]

Well, they carried people and supplies on their back, and if you are an archer riding on top of an oliphant, your'e going to have the upper hand over someone who is mounted on a horse or walking. I suppose they might be able to spook horses too, in which case you might have a chance of dismounting the any Riders, and they would no longer have the upper hand against your orc troops.

[Kransha]

In both movie and book, the entire Haradrim army fought from the "war towers" on mumak backs. They did not heavy infantry, cavalry, or artillery, only this heavy cavalry in the form of oliphaunt-born seige towers. Its not that the Haradrim needed to find a purpose for their mounts, only that it was the only thing they used. Do you think they're going to leave out their most powerful weapons (which just happen to be Rohirrim-crushing tusk-tusking horse-trampling mumakil) out of a battle because they are not tactically sound. Plus, once these beasts got near the wall, the towers on their backs could shoot nearly endless volleys of arrows from protected areas.

[Knight of Gondor]

they could just trample the knights of gondor

Ouch.

But my main point is, this army came planning a siege, not a forces-meet-forces battle on a field. In fact, the Mumakil basically stayed back, hidden, until the Riders showed up. They had Grond for the gate, so what was the idea in bringing them?

[rutslegolas]

i think that the haradrim brought along the oliphaunts so that they could get an advantage over the riders of rohan

and also so that they could get rid of the defence on the walls of minas tirth which were posing a problem for "grond" to break the gate

hope that is the answer to question of "knight of gondor"

[Elassar 516]

The haradrim couldn't have brought the Mûmakil to gain an advantage against the Riders of Rohan because they weren't planning on Theoden and co. showing up. After all, just a short time before Theoden was a shriveled toad eating out of Sarumans hand (through Grima) and Saruman had his gigantic army that was going to crush Rohan. All the Haradrim thought they had to do was defeat Minas Tirith.

[Knight of Gondor]

My point exactly. They planned a siege, not a ground war. There may have been some advantage in the attack of the city walls, but not much, as compared to Grond, and the siege towers.

[Mad Baggins]

Maybe they thought to bring them just in case the Gondorian army planned to send some soldiers out to attack them. Or maybe they just used them for carrying heavy equipment (i.e. the catapults) and ended up using them for fighting.

[rutslegolas]

excatly my point mad baggins

the mumakil are huge the haradrim may have brought them to crush the knights of gondor and even they could i think load catapults on the backs of these creatures and just launch them inside the walls of minas tirth.

ya soory about the trampling the horses point i didnt take into consideration the saruman factor