TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Nerwen]

Nerwen the Resplendent, Supreme Ruler of the Greater Haradian Empire, lightly drummed her long scarlet nails on the gold-scaled, ruby-eyed snake’s head that terminated the armrest of her throne. The clacking sound carried through the gilded emptiness of the vast chamber, but the black-clad figure who stood before her– stood! – when all others must prostrate themselves!– gave no sign of unease.

“It is well that your Imperial Splendour consider my Lord’s offer of alliance, O She Who Is Brighter than the Moon,” the Envoy said, daring to meet her gaze with strange eyes grey as distant rain. “But pray do not hesitate too long. My Master has reclaimed his realm and begun the rebuilding of the Dark Tower; his power now grows apace, and great shall be the rewards for those who aid him. Others may find him– less generous.”

By her side, her Royal Executioner stirred, hand toying with a loop of gleaming wire, and a sharp hiss of breath carried all the way from the great carven door where the Captain of the Guard waited. The Empress had but to lift her hand, and these her most faithful servants would instantly strike down this insolent stranger who had the temerity to almost-threaten their mistress.

She made no such move. It was true that the cup the Lord of the Black Land held out to her contained more than a trace of bitterness. When she had first ascended the Serpent Throne, a decade since, the realms of Harad had been only a collection of petty and often squabbling kingdoms– and now it seemed the empire she had forged in blood and fire must itself become a mere vassal state of Mordor. But these were foolish thoughts. There could be no shame, even for her, in serving an overlord who was no mortal but a living god– and nothing but glory in the prospect of crushing Gondor once and for all. There were so many humilations to avenge.

“So be it,” she said at length. “Harad will make alliance with the Lord of Mordor, our friend of old.”

“A wise decision, O She Who Is Brighter than the Moon. My Master will welcome the news.” The Envoy seemed to relax, a little, and for the first time the pale face showed a hint of emotion. The Empress thought it might have been relief. Fleetingly, she wondered if the Envoy were really so confident as appearances suggested. The young Black Númenórean sorcerer could not have been long in the service of Mordor, after all– and she had always heard the Dark Lord tolerated failure even less than she did herself.

But the feelings of underlings were no concern of hers. “And what, then, is this other matter? This information so secret you requested a private audience with us?”

“Your Splendour, there are spies in the Palace,” the Envoy declared flatly.

“What of it?” The Empress was genuinely puzzled. “They will be found out, tormented and fed to the sacred serpents, as always. Is it really for such trivial matters that you trouble our Imperial ear?”

“These are no ordinary spies, O She of Matchless Perfection. I have learned that a certain foul wizard, here I believe called Incánus–”

“The name is known to us,” the Empress said grimly. “Go on.”

“I have discovered that he has used his vile magic to disguise four Men of Gondor, ancient foe of both our peoples, so that they can walk undetected amongst us. They could, Your Splendour, be anyone.”

“Anyone?’’ The Empress clutched the cold serpent’s head. It seemed darker suddenly, as if a shadow had passed across the windowed cupola overhead, blocking the evening light. She was unpleasantly aware of the Executioner’s presence, so close at her side, so dangerously close…

“No-one…” the grey eyes closed, “…no-one in this chamber, I think… Yes, I am sure of it. I can sense thoughts, sometimes, and these two,” with a brief, half-mocking glance at the Captain and Executioner, “fairly blaze with loyalty for your Imperial Splendour. If only all others were so faithful– or so easy to read. Not,” the Envoy added quickly, “that my arts won’t serve me, but it may take time, and I’d need to watch, and listen… Alas! Many of your Splendour’s people seem to be– apprehensive of me– for some reason. I fear they will be too guarded in my presence…”

“Then we will fight fire with fire,” said the Empress, with the decisiveness that had carried her to many a hard-won victory. “Envoy, you must disguise yourself also. And my servants, too– they shall aid you. Go all of you– seek out this evil and destroy it!”

The Envoy of Mordor gave a somewhat minimal bow, while the Captain of the Guard and Royal Executioner abased themselves in the proper manner, touching their heads to the floor and intoning, “We live to serve, O She for Whom the Stars Do Shine.”

“Wait–“ said the Empress, as the three turned to leave. “Envoy–we have heard of a young acolyte of the Serpent cult, said to be near as skilled as yourself in the sorcerous arts. Might such a one, too, be of help?”

“Perhaps, your Splendour, perhaps– if this Acolyte proves truly loyal…”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Night One has begun. Night people, start doing Night things.

NOTE: use of epithets is in no way a clue to the identity of the gifteds. So there.

[Nerwen]

As night fell on the Palace, the figure who had been watching on the roof of the throneroom slipped quietly into the deserted, out-of-the way courtyard where three others waited.

“Well, you made it, then,” said one of them. “I’d have wagered you’d break your neck up there– it must be true there’s Elvish blood in Dol Amroth. –Bad, is it?”

“Very bad. Curse these Southrons! Yes: she’s gone over to the Enemy. What did you expect?”

“Nothing less– but you know our realms are hardly prepared for this. Morgoth take that woman! If it weren’t for her the Haradrim would still be bickering amongst themselves.”

“You know,” said a third, “I believe that if “She who is Brighter than the Moon” were to meet with an… accident… the empire might simply fall apart.”

“Hmmn… do you suppose the Grey Pilgrim really had something like this is mind when he enchanted us?” asked the fourth member of the group.

“Oh, what he doesn’t know won’t hurt him. Besides, it’s in a good cause.”

“But that’s not all,” said the climber of Dol Amroth. “That Black renegade is on to us, and has told the Empress. I fear we may not get out of the Palace alive as it is.”

The four of them looked at one another. “Well, then,” said the one who has spoken first, “nothing to lose, have we?”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The morning sun glittered on the spires and domes of the Palace. Even at this hour, the wind blew like a hot breath from the desert, but the coolness of night still lingered in the marble hall that was the ante-chamber to the throne room. Welcome it must have been, since the chamber was crowded with those seeking the favour of the great ruler as well as the slaves and performers who had been selected to entertain them.

The great doors, whose rich carvings and inlays told of the many bloody campaigns on which the Empire had been built, had now been kept shut an hour past their usual time, and the throng was starting to grow restive or alarmed, according to the nature of its individual members. One particularly impatient man, a wealthy merchant by his robes, shouldered his way through the crowd to confront Eruhen, the Chief Eunuch. “Look here! How much longer are we expected to wait? I’ll have you know I’m meant to have an audience with the Empress herself. My coffee is the finest, my camels the best bred in all–”

“She Who is Brighter then the Moon,” said the eunuch coldly, in his clear, high-pitched voice, “may make the Prince of Khand wait until the inland sea goes dry if it should please her Splendour– let alone some cheating merchant!” He clapped his hands. “Be off with you!”

The merchant was too shocked and humiliated to protest– or to notice the alacrity with which Eruhen spun to question the panting messenger-girl who had just run up from the direction of the Empress’s private chambers.

“Well, Sally? How long before her Implerial Splendour is ready?”

“Master, there’s something wrong!” the girl gasped. “The Empress’s hand-maiden says there’s no answer from Her Splendour! No answer all morning!”

Eruhen found the outer doors of the Empress’s quarters already opened. A guard-lieutenant and a diaphanously-robed slave-girl were listening at the doors to the Imperial Sleeping Chamber with anxious looks on their faces.

“You are the handmaiden?” Eruhen asked the girl.

“Yes, Master– Rikae is this one’s unworthy name, if it please you, Master… Oh, what can the matter be? She Who Is Brighter than the Moon has always before heard this slave’s knock in the morning!”

Eruhen peered at the guard. “I don’t think I know you. Who are you? And where is the Captain?”

“Lietenant Shastanis Althreduin– and… I… well, I’m not quite sure where the Captain is, actually… but there can’t be anything wrong. Why, I’d never fail her Imperial Splendour! I have not moved from my post all night!"

“Open the doors!” the Chief Eunuch ordered.

“What!” the guardman gasped. “But– but her Splendour– will– she will–“

“Open them!”

Shaking with fear, the lieutenant pushed open the door.

The chamber was carpeted in scarlet and gold, and scarlet were the tapestried curtains that hung around the royal bed. But none were so vivid as the blood that drenched the silken sheets and pillows where the Empress lay, or the gaping wound in her throat.

A trail of bloody prints led across the room to the open window.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Living
Boromir88 –Wealthy mûmak breeder.
Sally –Messenger girl.
Galadriel55 –Professional assassin.
Shasta –Particularly attentive guard-lieutenant.
Steve –Court Jester (from Umbar).
Pomegranate –Entertainer.
A Little Green –The Empress's favourite snake-charmer.
Rikae –Empress's handmaiden.
Eruhen –Court eunuch.
Pitchwife –Captain in the "Provisional Royal Númenórean Navy" and emissary of Angamaitë IX, Lord of Umbar.
Lottie –Accident-prone sorcerer's apprentice.
Bom Tombadillo –Greatly afflicted beggar.
Inziladun –Minister of the Treasury.
Lommy! –Court physician.
Nogrod –Camel and coffee trader.
Legate of Amon Lanc –Legate of Khand.

Dead
The Empress of Harad (mod).


Day One has begun.

[Thinlómien]

First post. Maybe the second time in my life. Yay! It's great to be playing again. *stretches* We'll see how rusty I am.

So, shall we lynch the loud (me) or the quiet (the rest of you)?
Shall we all now flock to protect Shasta since the Moddess Goddess's marvelous narration surely leaves no doubt about the identity of the seer?

And since someone will say it aloud at some point anyway, we might as well get done with it in the first post: please be extra careful with the lynches in this game! Must avoid last-minute votes in this game.

Anyone want to start speculation about the mysterious acolyte?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

So, shall we lynch the loud (me) or the quiet (the rest of you)?

Or the loud who consistently don't post anything substantive?

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And since someone will say it aloud at some point anyway, we might as well get done with it in the first post: please be extra careful with the lynches in this game! Must avoid last-minute votes in this game.

It's likely I'll be voting long before DL as a rule here. It falls into my exercise time.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Anyone want to start speculation about the mysterious acolyte?

We'd need at least some facts to speculate, and I don't think there are many, although an "acolyte" is generally a person of high rank, or one with fervent beliefs, I think. Xe doesn't count in the tally. Good? Evil? Neutral? Cinnamon? (Sorry, got carried away with thoughts of breakfast )

[Nerwen]

All right, narration's up. Sorry about the delay.

–Incidentally, the Royal Executioner has yet to pick a target. The Empress is most displeased (even in the afterlife).

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

We'd need at least some facts to speculate, and I don't think there are many, although an "acolyte" is generally a person of high rank, or one with fervent beliefs, I think. Xe doesn't count in the tally. Good? Evil? Neutral? Cinnamon? (Sorry, got carried away with thoughts of breakfast )

Methinks it's an apprentice or a follower of a kind, and has something to do with religion. (I checked: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acolyte) The narration also implies he is related to the seer and can choose his side (or at least may change sides, maybe not on his own will). So we have some kind of cursed-kind of person? An assistant of the seer who changes sides if attacked by the wolves? Ugh, sounds disastrous.


edit: xed with the Empress's ghost

[Thinlómien]

Given the recent events, I think honour would demand Shasta and I go nilp because of our failures at serving the Empress. Oh woe!

Speaking of voting, I HATE RANDOM VOTES. THEY DON'T SERVE THE VILLAGE IN ANY WAY. DON'T MAKE THEM IF YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE ME ANGRY AND SUSPICIOUS OF YOU. Now that I have said it, I hope I can refrain from ranting about it for the rest of the game... (Fyi, Eru and Nate, this is my pet peeve. Please don't freak out.)

Also, I'll most likely be voting pretty close to the DL every day, I think, as it's 2pm my time and as a student I tend to have free time in such weird hours as in the middle of the day or in the morning...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Methinks it's an apprentice or a follower of a kind, and has something to do with religion. (I checked: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acolyte) The narration also implies he is related to the seer and can choose his side (or at least may change sides, maybe not on his own will). So we have some kind of cursed-kind of person? An assistant of the seer who changes sides if attacked by the wolves? Ugh, sounds disastrous.


edit: xed with the Empress's ghost

I also got the impression that the Acolyte would be somebody who could switch sides, yes. The idea I had when reading it was that it could be something along the lines of a Seer (weaker Seer, perhaps? Not sure how exactly to define "weaker", but let's say one dream per several Nights, or not getting specific info - like only getting the ordo/special affirmation or good/evil affirmation etc, we've seen all this before). "Near as skilled as yourself in sorcerous arts" implies something like that, and "if the acolyte proves truly loyal" points to the uncertainity. Might be that the Acolyte takes the Seer's place after the Seer is killed, OR takes a Wolf's place after the first Wolf (resp. traitor) is killed, to compensate? However I am not sure if I'd believe this. The most likely possibility to me would be something like a Seer-like Gifted (as I have outlined above) who can actually choose the side. There used to be roles like that as well in other games. Basically: caring for its own survival, but can join either side. Somehow, I am slightly doubtful also about this (it would be too simple to be able to just choose if the role was really just a Seer who chooses), but it's probably the best I can think of right now. The "cursed Seer" idea of Lommy's hasn't occured to me, would be possible, though not nice. However, if it was like that, we'd probably learn about it the way that one Night suddenly there'd be no kill etc...

Anyway, perhaps further narrations will also contain more information about the Acolyte's role, at least hints like this.

Anyway... otherwise... well, I think there isn't much more to speak about right now, so at least something.

Will be around...

EDIT: X-ed with two Lommys. Ahem, you really missed that game a lot, right...

[Eönwë]

Said the Tortoise to the Mûmak
Why art thou so big?
The size of house, but e'en a louse
Can through thy deep skin dig.
What purpose is their for thy size
When small foe holds thee at bay?
For being small, thou may me chastise
But this is what I say.

Said the Mûmak to the Tortoise
Why art thou so slow?
A house thou carriest upon thy back
So thou can'st never grow.
And even when thou strayest from home
What can that shelter bring?
When the large birds may pick thee up
And drop from high on wing?

Wise old horse came wand'ring past
Alone did gallop he
Thinking 'why do they not run as well
to where they want to be?'


Note: Just got back to the computer, thought I'd posted this about 20 minutes ago, but now the mood has changed and Legate's turned up.

edit: bolded name

[Thinlómien]

AAAAAAAAAAAARGH. I just lost a long post I had written, because Internet Explorer and my dad's computer suck. Not bolding any names anymore because it's difficult with this sad excuse of a touchpad/mouse.

To summarise: I suck. This game sucks. Couldn't go much worse, at least from my personal pov, if you think about who I have trusted and suspected so far. Serious rethinking in order, like I predicted late yesterDay.

I don't understand why 80% of toDay has been just discussion of the acolyte, and the only looks into Nog's posts have been by our seer. What's wrong with you people?

Boro and Zil look pretty innocent to me now, Legate and Shasta are weird (that obsession on the acolyte is not natural even for Shasta who can be a little single-minded at times ), Pitch is under my radar and I have a vague bad feeling about Pom. I will need to reread and think more, maybe make a list.

ps. Okay, I bolded, but crappily. I don't understand how Nog can use this touchpad daily without going mad...


edit: xed with Greenie and Legate

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Nogrod on Lommy

Day 1, Nogrod barely mentions Lommy at all. He mentions her in passing in a post on Pitch and another on Lottie, then near the end of the day he says this -

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, a fair 1½ hours until the DL. I'll try to make sense of a few things (Lommy-suspicion and Inzil's behaviour at least).

and then in #122 he defends her.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So Lommy "stretches points", uses the word "weird" too often and "defends Pitch" (which is then corrected as a misunderstanding)? Her guilt seems only too obvious...

I mean really?

What he's defending her against here is the votes she got from Eruhen (he calls it "bandwagoning in major scale" and G55 ("possible bandwagon".) It's interesting to note that most of what this post is about, seemingly, is less defense of Lommy and more a changing of his attitudes toward G55, who he started the Day very trusting of. The two (defense of Lommy and early defense of G55) actually look rather similar.

And that's all Nogrod says about Lommy on Day 1.

Day 2, Nog's #168:

Originally Posted by Nog

Well, anyway, you actually do quote my post where I explain my change of heart. I mean the sudden Lommywagon did raise some eyebrows and when I read your post where you explained your... well what could it be, change of heart (? ) to suddenly suspect Lommy when she started gathering suspicion... well that made me suspect you - and thus to reconsider the innocence of your outburst as well.

It was not only the fact that you suddenly jumped on the fast-emerging Lommy-train, but the way you did it. (Explained in my #122)

Heh, I saw Lommy posted about you confidence of being alive, to write such a strong "defence by attack" I'd say, so I'm not going to say anything more about it.

Again, more a justification of his suspicion of G55 than anything about Lommy. The only thing a little bit interesting here is that last comment, which is basically a tacit endorsement of what Lommy said earlier. I suppose it could be a way to subtly reinforce good vibes about Lommy, but it's such a small thing that I doubt it.

Originally Posted by Nog

I was willing to discuss with the people around then (about 15 minutes before the DL or something) of the possibilities between Bom, Boro and G55 but had to take a phone-call from my colleague and when I came back people were already voting for Bom which kind of made it futile to vote differently as I had nothing against Lommy.

Just go and check.

Here he's answering Pitch about the Bom lynch, and mentions that he had no reason to vote for Lommy as he had nothing against her. And he hasn't, so that's okay.

Nog's #201 is in answer to a post of Lommy's from earlier, and he's very neutral about it, just basically responding to something she said rather than attacking her or defending her at all.

A short quote from #228:

Originally Posted by Nog

I did change my mind because of the way you suddenly jumped on Lommy (there was a train emerging there) - and especially the way you did it (you underlined it was the substance of her posts but never said anything about it yourself).

Again in response to G55. Mentions again that Lommy was going to be bandwagoned.

Originally Posted by Nog

Lommy!: I think she acts like her normal self - which is to say quite little. She talks sense and I have nothing against her thus far - nor any reasons to trust her over the careful reasonableness -point.

This is what Nog had to say about Lommy from his list post, #234, right after Eonwe's reveal. Again, very neutral, nothing for or against.

And then he doesn't mention her again after that.

So, conclusions - well, there aren't really very many to be drawn here, to be honest. Nog barely mentioned Lommy, and when he did he was either kinda defensive or completely neutral. I suppose it could be a giant case of distancing, but there's not really anything to support that.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Legate

These were only questions, and completely "freely" phrased - a mere civilized way to ask you about something. Yet you are answering with rather defensive and sort of jumpy way at some moments. In contrary to what you say, I have *no* intention to lynch you for the sake of itself. But at least on first sight, I can't help to think you are making stuff up, or clutching to some pre-made points of your own.

"Defensive." "Jumpy." "Making stuff up." What did I tell you? Witchhunt. All me answering your questions did was give you more fodder for your witchhunt against me, because all you've mentioned are opinions that are designed to look like hard suspicions. Look at this -

This in particular sounds rather fabricated.

(in regards to this-)

I had originally forgotten about the fact that we could double lynch - I wanted Zil gone over Nog because I felt both were bad for the innocents, but killing Inzil would have dropped the nightkills from two to one (I still thought the Acolyte was going to kill the next night.) Then, after I voted, the idea of a double lynch was mentioned, which I thought was a fine idea - kill both with one lynch.

Now, you say this sounds fabricated. Obviously there's nothing I can say to that, since it's not fabricated. But it gives you an easy way to continue to suspect me, doesn't it?

I'm going to skip over all the bit about the Acolyte because it's clear that, whether you're innocent or evil, we just flat are not going to agree where he's concerned.

Based on that if I compare the possibility that you sincerely were thinking the thing you are now telling us you were thinking, and the possibility that you were thinking something completely different and are just making this all up now that you had to answer about it to other people, I must say the other one sounds far more probable and logical.

This is just the same point, restated in order to make it look like you have a bigger argument against me than you already do. Also, I said basically the same thing earlier in the day when I replied to Pom, so there's further proof I didn't make it all up just now.

[Eönwë]

Now what if we had a Legate, Shasta and Boro wolf team?
And all this argument is just to cause mass confusion.
Unlikely but just another (not-so) crazy theory to think about.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Red zone:

no one in particular

Orange zone:

Shasta

??? Zil ??? (might also go to grey zone)

Grey zone:

Boro - see above: I have no clue about him right now. Remembering from before, there is the "too nice..." thing from the first Days, but also the thing that I had made mental note about, which I had forgotten of course (and don't want to look it up right now in the middle of writing the post), but basically that there were some things he had said which sounded genuine

A Little Green - she didn't say anything suspicious or anything, but lately some stuff... I'm wondering about her suspicion of Steve yesterDay (which had its reasons, of course, even I thought that - but of course she might also have figured out the determined way of pursuing Nog was a knowing Seer pursuing a fellow Wolf - I mean, if she were a Wolf, she WOULD know the suspicion was spot on, and she could have figured out that such a determined pursuit was coming from Seer, and might have wanted to try to get him lynched... hmm, now that I thought about this, I might actually put her even to the orange zone cathegory...)

Yellow zone:

Pitch - does not sound like evil

Pomegranate - I've been trusing her all the time, the reason I just moved her into the yellow zone is that a few things she said lately made me uncertain, but maybe it's just that I got subconsciously unnerved by her suspicion of me.

Lommy - sounds better lately

Green zone:

Lottie

Sally

White zone:

Steve

Well - given, that there are still three Wolves, somebody has to be them, right? Hmm...

EDIT: x-ed with a host since Lottie

[Thinlómien]

Innocentish
Greenie
Boro
Zil

Unsure
Lottie - not too alarming anymore but kind of under my radar

Weird or vaguely bad feeling
Sally - I got a bit of bad vibes from something she posted, but I don't remember what
Legate
Shasta
Pom
Pitch

Suspicious
no-one

...great. I just made the headings and started throwing the people under them, and this is what I came up with. I don't really like the lack of real suspects, and I have the feeling I'm being fooled. If I had to guess, I would say the remaining wolves are Pom, Pitch/Sally and Legate/Shasta (both of them can't be innocently weird).


edit: xed with Shasta

[Thinlómien]

I'm happy Shasta's analysing Nog's interactions with people and I'm aware this will sound really weird coming from me - but I think me and Nogrod's interactions look worse than Shasta makes them look (let's face it - you could call it even sort of co-operation, and that's my mistake), so the fact that Shasta takes them so lightly makes me more suspicious of him. I don't think an innocent who logically cannot know I'm innocent would be able to read me and Nogrod's interactions with such lack of suspicion to my direction, whatever the final conclusion. Just sayin'.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm happy Shasta's analysing Nog's interactions with people and I'm aware this will sound really weird coming from me - but I think me and Nogrod's interactions look worse than Shasta makes them look (let's face it - you could call it even sort of co-operation, and that's my mistake), so the fact that Shasta takes them so lightly makes me more suspicious of him. I don't think an innocent who logically cannot know I'm innocent would be able to read me and Nogrod's interactions with such lack of suspicion to my direction, whatever the final conclusion. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by myself

Now I'm really getting annoyed. Apparently everything I say or do is going to be suspicious to someone.

*throws hands up*

I'm done talking for now. I'm making myself far too easy for the wolves to lynch, at this point.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

A question that isn't even rhetorical but a serious one I'd like an answer for: why the blazes is everyone discussing the flipping acolyte? Has everyone forgotten we have wolves to catch? A dead wolf whose relationships with people we could go through? Yes, we shouldn't forget about the acolyte, but debating about her/him to this extent makes no sense. Not when we really have more substantial food for thought and discussion.

/rant

I'm going to continue the vote analysis I started earlier. Back soon.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

AAAAAAAAAAAARGH. I just lost a long post I had written, because Internet Explorer and my dad's computer suck. Not bolding any names anymore because it's difficult with this sad excuse of a touchpad/mouse.

To summarise: I suck. This game sucks. Couldn't go much worse, at least from my personal pov, if you think about who I have trusted and suspected so far. Serious rethinking in order, like I predicted late yesterDay.

Ok. Both of you, inhale? Yes? Exhale? K. Thank you.

[Loslote]

After Legate's weird flip-out over Steve not revealing the Ordo yesterDay, and his dogged (and, as it seems to me at least, flimsy and grasping-at-strawsy) pursuit of Shasta (who's seemed logical and genuine, if not always right, to me this whole game), I'm very much inclined to vote him toDay. Pitchie also seems off to me, but I'm less convinced of his guilt than of Legate's.

Obviously Steve is innocent, but Lommy, Sally, and Nate also seem pretty good to me, and I'm leaning innocent on Boro, Shasta, and Zil (though hardly definitively yet!). I have no read whatsoever on Greenie, and if there's anyone else playing, I've gotten so little a read on them that I've forgotten them entirely.

Obviously, this means that one of the people in my second category are evil. For now I'm thinking it'd be more likely to be Boro and Shasta - I'm more confident about the first three I mentioned, and Zil and Greenie, for some reason, don't strike me as all that evil this game (of course, they also don't strike me as all that innocent, but that's why they're in the categories they're in).

[A Little Green]

Legate is weird. His reaction to Steve's reveal has, I think, been discussed in sufficient length already. In addition to that, the following made my radars beep:

Originally Posted by Legate

Isn't it rather the sign of an innocent to have conflicting opinions about something?

I know it might be just an odd phrasing, but it looks like his "conflicting opinions" were something he had thought were supposed to be the sign of an innocent, if you get what I mean.

I'm very undecided about Lommy, who's so confused it looks both very innocentish (a wolf would, surely, have more than enough material by now to legitly suspect anyone she wished, or else keep us distracted with any number of unrelated topics) and evil (I could see a Lommywolf refraining from accusing people on the grounds of being confused; playing it safe, in other words). I'm more inclined to lean towards the first scenario, though.

I remember thinking yesterDay that Nog's wolvery makes Boro look shinier; don't remember what that referred to but I'm sure I'll find it.

I'm still halfway through a cursory re-read of the entire thread, will try to get that done in a few and see if something catches my eye.


EDIT: x-ed with Lommy and Shasta

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I'm happy Shasta's analysing Nog's interactions with people and I'm aware this will sound really weird coming from me - but I think me and Nogrod's interactions look worse than Shasta makes them look (let's face it - you could call it even sort of co-operation, and that's my mistake), so the fact that Shasta takes them so lightly makes me more suspicious of him. I don't think an innocent who logically cannot know I'm innocent would be able to read me and Nogrod's interactions with such lack of suspicion to my direction, whatever the final conclusion. Just sayin'.

If this comes from a Lommywolf, my hat's off to her. Made me feel better about her, anyway; I don't think a wolf would come up with a point like that (objectively evaluating one's own communication with a packmate is pretty hard) and if she would, it'd take some guts to say it aloud. In short, feeling a tad better about Lommy.


EDIT: x-ed since my last

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Legate

A Little Green - she didn't say anything suspicious or anything, but lately some stuff... I'm wondering about her suspicion of Steve yesterDay (which had its reasons, of course, even I thought that - but of course she might also have figured out the determined way of pursuing Nog was a knowing Seer pursuing a fellow Wolf - I mean, if she were a Wolf, she WOULD know the suspicion was spot on, and she could have figured out that such a determined pursuit was coming from Seer, and might have wanted to try to get him lynched... hmm, now that I thought about this, I might actually put her even to the orange zone cathegory...)

Err - you do know that the exact same thing applies to yourself as well? The only difference between us with regards to Steve's case against Nog was that I had to vote and go to sleep immediately after it.

[Pomegranate]

Okay.

First of all, I'm still pretty sure that Legate's a wolf, to such degree that if he gets an innocent lynched toDay, I'd feel he's played very impressively. Because even if you suspected Eonwe however badly, when he revealed, an ordinary person would've at least looked back and checked the facts before thinking he's wrong for all. And because this has been very clear to me from last night onwards, I wouldn't actually be surprised if this - how should we call it? - debate of Legate and Shasta's was a wolfy plan of making Shasta look good when Legate was lynched. Because, as Lommy says, it is weird.

Other than that, I'll need to reread. I'm having trouble concentrating, but I feel that some of the non-suspected ones (sally, Greenie and to be objective, myself) would deserve some looking into. By making noise, players like Nog and Legate (Shasta? Boro (though that wolf-on-wolf would also be somewhat impressive)? Lommy?) give them an easy place to hide.

And a sidenote: I wouldn't be surprised if Inzil was the acolyte, looking back. However, unless the acolyte starts killing again, I think we should kill the spies first. That's the name of the game. I have heard all the arguments about this and don't think I need more evaluation, just wanted to make my opinion clear.

edit. x/ed since Lommy's #342

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Now what if we had a Legate, Shasta and Boro wolf team?
And all this argument is just to cause mass confusion.
Unlikely but just another (not-so) crazy theory to think about.

I'd be willing to consider the option of a Legate-Shasta-?Pitch? pack, at any rate.

EDIT: xed with a bunch

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm happy Shasta's analysing Nog's interactions with people and I'm aware this will sound really weird coming from me - but I think me and Nogrod's interactions look worse than Shasta makes them look (let's face it - you could call it even sort of co-operation, and that's my mistake), so the fact that Shasta takes them so lightly makes me more suspicious of him. I don't think an innocent who logically cannot know I'm innocent would be able to read me and Nogrod's interactions with such lack of suspicion to my direction, whatever the final conclusion. Just sayin'.

Hmm, in fact, this indeed made me somehow suspicious about Lommy again. It's not just the fact that it would look weird (because I know you do that), nor the fact that you said we might think it looks weird (because I know you do that as well), but also the elaboration on it and devoting one whole post to it... especially if Shasta turns out to be Wolf (and if now he is under some suspicion), this might also be a slight way to sort of suspect him (and in case he is lynched, to show that you are separed from him).

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

"Defensive." "Jumpy." "Making stuff up." What did I tell you? Witchhunt. All me answering your questions did was give you more fodder for your witchhunt against me, because all you've mentioned are opinions that are designed to look like hard suspicions. Look at this -

(in regards to this-)

Now, you say this sounds fabricated. Obviously there's nothing I can say to that, since it's not fabricated. But it gives you an easy way to continue to suspect me, doesn't it?

I was afraid you will say something like this, and therefore I am not talking anymore to you about this, because you are convinced I am evilly trying to frame you, which I said already last time I am not. So until you are willing to reevaluate and reconsiderate the possibility that it is not so, the debate makes no sense. If you have pre-determined opinions, you can hardly believe you are deciding objectively (or, as much "objectively" as one can). That is not asking you to stop suspecting me, by any means, but merely appeal to bring that to your attention that it might not be as you project - at least on the level of discussion. If you are innocent, I am warning you that you are having a tunnel vision in that I am writing everything with some evil intent. Your unwillingness to acknowledge this thus far (despite me telling this to you already before, only in different words) makes me only support my belief. And no, that is not predetermined answer (as you would most likely say based on how you've been reacting this far), but direct response based on this and only this reaction of yours. In case you are a Wolf (which I now believe), it of course makes perfect sense, because you try to disqualify suspicions against yourself (or pass it on me, if you can, even better).

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

First of all, I'm still pretty sure that Legate's a wolf, to such degree that if he gets an innocent lynched toDay, I'd feel he's played very impressively. Because even if you suspected Eonwe however badly, when he revealed, an ordinary person would've at least looked back and checked the facts before thinking he's wrong for all.

I did it, but only later. Do you remember everything e.g. I have written in the game? Probably not. If you are indeed suspecting me heavily and if I now told you that I am the Seer, how would you react? Probably the first reaction would be diselief at least. Maybe then after reading some old posts and seeing them in different light, you would reconsider. But if you wrote your first post without looking back, who knows how it would look, right?

And because this has been very clear to me from last night onwards, I wouldn't actually be surprised if this - how should we call it? - debate of Legate and Shasta's was a wolfy plan of making Shasta look good when Legate was lynched. Because, as Lommy says, it is weird.

For further reference: If Shasta is really a Wolf, this makes Nate look rather good in my book. However, in case he wasn't, then if Nate was a Wolf instead, it would be very nasty way to connect two innocents.

EDIT: x-ed since my last