Mouth of Sauron

is it just me or did they get the mouth of sauron right?i think he was awesome.i dont know that i like aragorn killing him so easily tho.

[Boromir88]

I really don't think the Mouth of Sauron was portrayed well. He was a man, most likely Black Numenorean, and was nearing or just passing the age of 100. I think Jackson took the title "Mouth of Sauron" too far, and too literally. He was the Mouth as he was Sauron's ambassador, and herald, not that all you could see was his awful dentistry.

[Farael]

While I think that PJ did an overal good job with the movies *ducks an assortment of rotten vegetables, eggs past their prime and hobbit feet hair furballs* Calm down!! I Said he did a good job with the MOVIES not with the BOOKS... he made movies based on LoTR and I think they were good, they weren't the books on a big screen though.

Anyway, what I meant to say is that I think that the Mouth of Sauron is just not a beliable character. All through the movies we see that even the orcs are something more than an extension of the pure evil that grows out of Mordor... yet the Mouth of Sauron seems to be nothing but well... the mouth of Sauron. I mean, he doesn't even have peep holes on that awful helmet of his. He can't see where he's going! And for crying out loud, he doesn't even seem to have a nose... even the Black Horsemen (aka Nazghul on horses) have the sense of smell going for them.

And about Aragorn killing him far too easily, I don't know... I mean, Mouth of Sauron was there to negotiate (or rather to taunt, but officially...) so he would not be expecting a stroke. Even if MoS was a "super powa cool dark wizzard" as long as chopping his head off kills him, an unexpected blow is just as effective as with anyone else.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am with Boro on this one, the titel is taken a bit too far. This being said, it didn't realy bother me.

About him getting killed to easily. . . well, I am one of those who belive it was a major mistake killing him. Therefor I have never thought about that.

[Holbytlass]

If Peter Jackson was out to freak people he certainly won with me. MoS is definitely someone I would not want to pass on the street. I do like how his identity was covered with the helmet, something for us readers because we know that he doesn't even remember it.

To me, Aragorn does seem to lose some of his regal demeanure when he kills MoS. Despite what MoS says, he is an ambassador and what Aragorn did was reactive and not in control.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

But this incident seems fairley trivial in comparison with Aragorn killing an ambassador during parley.

From Disturbing scenes in a movie post#8. Exactly my feelings, it was bad form.

[calandil]

in the book he does not die ,as j.r.r said he was supposedly lost in the ruin of mordor,it does'nt imply he is dead

[The Mouth of Sauron]

The guy in the extended version of ROTK looks nothing like me .

I am the REAL Mouth of Sauron .

As for Aragorn beheading me , WRONG . As I said to Old Greybeard ( in the book ) at the time, " I am a herald and ambassador and may not be assailed " .

I may incline to agree on one thing, and yet not on the other. PJ went a litle too far in killing of the character. Yet the Mouth himself was prtrayed well. take for example the Nazgul. They were under Saurons grip for a long time. By which under his perverse tutulege and the rings, becaame invsible to the eye and withering to the spirit. but a simple Black Numenorrean with out the aide of power could resemble a stretch hide and vulgar bearing as the Mouth of Sauron was portrayed in ROTK.

[Lobelia]

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

The guy in the extended version of ROTK looks nothing like me .

I am the REAL Mouth of Sauron .

As for Aragorn beheading me , WRONG . As I said to Old Greybeard ( in the book ) at the time, " I am a herald and ambassador and may not be assailed " .

And all he did was LOOK at you, for crying out loud! What a wimp.

Actually, as an Australian, I couldn't help giggling at the Mouth in the movie. He was Bruce Spence, best known here as a comedian (I once saw him as an incredibly tall and lanky Puck in A Midsummer Night's Dream). You may have seen him in Mad Max 2. My bad luck I knew who was lurking under that armour...

[Essex]

for me the MoS looked very creepy. I love the way his head moves as the hobbits wimper- as if he has tunnel vision, or maybe no vision and relying on an acute sense of hearing.

oh dear here we go again -

he is an ambassador

Book MoS was an ambassador there to parly. Movie MoS was no ambassador at all, and did not claim parly either. He was there to taunt them before his troops ripped them apart. (and to be honest that was what the Book MoS was there for - Sauron knew our Heroes would not surrender - remember he thought they had the Ring - it was just a trap to draw them close so he could spring his trap anyway)

Movie Aragorn chopped his head off to shut him up. He was putting major doubt into the minds of the Men of the West and Co. and had to stop it. As he said after he did the deed - that he would not believe what the MoS was saying, so off with his head!

[Boromir88]

Book MoS was an ambassador there to parly. Movie MoS was no ambassador at all, and did not claim parly either. He was there to taunt them before his troops ripped them apart.

I disagree. In the movies there is clearly set up a term of negotians and a message from Sauron:


Mouth: My master, Sauron the Great, bids thee welcome. Is there any in this rout with authority to treat with me?
Gandalf: We do not wish to treat with Sauron, Faithless, and Accursed; Tell your master this: The armies of Mordor must disband. He is to depart these lands, never to return.
Mouth: Ahh, old grey beard. I have a token I was bidden to show thee.

(Throws out the Mithril coat, some shock and dismays. This is when the MoS starts gloating over Frodo and his death, he was tortured...etc)

Aragorn then rides up the Mouth says, blah takes more to make a king than a broken elvish...and he can't finish because his head is then chopped off. In which case Gimli so comically remarks 'I guess that concludes negotiations.'

Jackson knew exactly what he was doing, he exactly understood the scene in the book. The Mouth comes out, says would someone like to treat with me...the scene continues, head chopped off, Gimli remarks thats the end of negotiations. It doesn't matter if the MoS insults, annoys, gloats...etc, there is a clear scene set up where the Mouth (in the movies) was out there as a messenger and Aragorn kills him as Mithalwen references in another thread 'in cold blood.' Clearly there were negotiotians going on, Gandalf even acknowledges this in the movies, 'Tell Sauron this....,' and Aragorn rides up in anger to chop his head off.

and to be honest that was what the Book MoS was there for - Sauron knew our Heroes would not surrender - remember he thought they had the Ring - it was just a trap to draw them close so he could spring his trap anyway

Doesn't matter, Aragorn and company willingly road in expecting to fight, that was there plan. They wanted the armies to come out (in both the books and the movies). There was no hope for a military overthrow of Sauron, but Aragorn willingly road out to the black gate, so Frodo would have the chance. It doesn't matter if Sauron is planning to trap them or not, the MoS was out there for a message and to deliver terms. This is clearly established in both the movies and the books. But Jackson decided to have fun because it would be cool to kill a gross disgunting evil man.

[Essex]

Good points Boromir.

the word 'Treat' - I'll have to take a look at that.

But a few other things though.

Gimli's 'I guess that concludes negotiations' - he was being Ironic. There were no negotiations.

The movie MoS came out to gloat -

Let me put this to you. if you had not read the book before you saw this scene you would not believe that the MoS was there to negotiate or parley with them.

But then we need to ask someone who saw this film before they read the books....Anyone?

Aragorn asked for Sauron to come out, the gates open ajar and out pops one of his cronies to taunt the Men of the West, to inflict more doubt in their minds with Lies, and then to spring a trap.

He was not there to Parley. Just because someone walks up to you on the field of battle and doesn't swing a sword at you doesn't give him the right to walk around and taunt you and you must leave him be......

Finally, to make clear, the book version is far superior and works a LOT better than the movie version. I am just defending the actions of movie Aragorn.

[ninja91]

I like how he says "My master Sauron the Great bids thee welcome". Like they are welcome guests at all.