Albino Elves - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Perky Ent · 05-01-2004, 05:48 PM

Here's a question! If Races from all across Middle Earth have different skin tones (Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Easterlings), is there a possibility that some could be albino? Or is that a topic that Tolkien failed to notice?

**The Saucepan Man** · 05-01-2004, 06:34 PM

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Or is that a topic that Tolkien failed to notice?

He also failed to include any reference to jellyfish, giraffes, lung cancer or bronchitis. Did they exist in Middle-earth? Possibly, who knows? They could if you want them to. The main point being, however, that they were not relevant to the story that he was telling.

The Perky Ent · 05-01-2004, 06:39 PM

Good point. But still, that would be cool if someone was albino. and it could be relavent to the story. After stealing the ring from Deagol, for some odd reason it could have made him albino, which was another reason to go into the cave.

Olorin_TLA · 05-01-2004, 08:25 PM

Gollum is descirbed as being bone white sometimes...mind you, other times he's black as night. Basically, from a distance the guy's a wretched chameleon.

Albino's lack the menalin to handle the sun well...so though Orks have lots of pigment in them, you could say they suffer the ill-effects of albinosim.

Legolas · 05-01-2004, 10:01 PM

Albinism is a result of genetic mutation that causes a deficiency in melanin (there are several alterations that can trigger it). Who knows whether that mutation had showed up as early as Tolkien's stories take place? They certainly wouldn't have known what caused it, or even what to call it.

Maybe Dwalin's blue beard was a result of some odd genetic mutation, though.

ohtatyaro · 08-03-2004, 07:28 AM

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Maybe Dwalin's blue beard was a result of some odd genetic mutation, though.

Or type of pipeweed he was smoking

Isowen · 08-03-2004, 11:25 AM

Is there such a thing as Albino hair? Because most elves have white-blonde hair which is close enough isnt it? Elven folk are supposed to be fair of skin, so I suppose you could call them albino. It has a nice ring to it....."albino elves" In the films, the fellowship have more or less the same skin-tone but, just to raise a slightly different point; why do dwarves have darker skin than elves?
Elves are almost always outside, so surely they should have a darker flesh than dwarves, who spend their time underground! (because of the whole sun thing!)

Elves are pale, I suppose, to symbolise their purity and inner light. So you could call them albino.

ohtatyaro · 02-04-2005, 07:21 AM

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Because most elves have white-blonde hair which is close enough isnt it

'tis in the movie. Golden hair had vanyar (the dudes that stayed in Valinor, when Morgoth killed the Trees), Noldor had black hair - Galadriel was an exeption, and Teleri grey-silver (at least Thingol). I mean blondies of the movie must be a movie makers vision - there were no Vanyar in Middle Earth at that time, right?

Formendacil · 02-04-2005, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohtatyaro

'tis in the movie. Golden hair had vanyar (the dudes that stayed in Valinor, when Morgoth killed the Trees), Noldor had black hair - Galadriel was an exeption, and Teleri grey-silver (at least Thingol). I mean blondies of the movie must be a movie makers vision - there were no Vanyar in Middle Earth at that time, right?

Well, the Vanyar were the only PREDOMINANTLY blond race, but there is a smattering of blonds in the other races. Glorfindel, for example, is a Noldo. Thranduil (descriped in the Hobbit) is a Teler, of the Sindaring variety.

Also, for what its worth, most of the Teleri (be they from Aman, Beleriand, or elsewhere) are described as having "dark" hair, not unlike the Noldor. Silver-Grey seems to be a rare distinguishing trait of their royal house, where it is possessed by Thingol, Cirdan, Celeborn, and possibly others.

Mithalwen · 02-04-2005, 02:26 PM

Being etiolated from light deprivation is not the same as albinism. I have found various sites that point out various flaws in the genetics of Middle Earth. Although Mendel started his experiments in the 1850s it is fair to say that it was still a very new branch of science when Tolkien was writing and I wouldn't think that errors would cause much impairment of the work.

Pale isn't the same as albino ... I was at school with a girl who was affected by it and it was far from cool. Aswell as lacking colour in hair and skin it always affects the eyes - in vision if not coulour - and she had a serious visual impairment. Elves certainly don't suffer from that.

Valier · 12-20-2005, 12:34 PM

I know in the games there is albino Wargs......

Elu Ancalime · 12-20-2005, 07:41 PM

im pretty sure there is a difference between whate hair and albino hair. white is pigmented white, obviously, but albino hair would really be defined as clear, making the hair look the color of the skin behind it. i think a polar bear is an example.
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Farael · 12-20-2005, 10:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Although Mendel started his experiments in the 1850s it is fair to say that it was still a very new branch of science when Tolkien was writing and I wouldn't think that errors would cause much impairment of the work.

I'm fairly sure not only that you are right, but also that when Mendel 'discovered' genetics, no one really payed attention until quite a few years after that. I took intro Bio in which we studied Mendel's work but I can't recall exactly when it happened that science took an interest in genetics again. I would think it was not until at least 1930, as the "boom" in genetics did not happen until mid-20th century.

Regarding albino characters, it is unlikely that there would be many. I don't know the statistics on how many albino individuals there are in a population but it's unlikely to be too big... and if you take into account that science was not very well developed in the timeframe Middle Earth is set on, it is likely that albino people would have been discriminated and ostracised by society. Either that or adored as demi-gods because their white skin showed how pure they are or something like that

ohtatyaro · 12-21-2005, 01:16 AM

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it is likely that albino people would have been discriminated and ostracised by society. Either that or adored as demi-gods because their white skin showed how pure they are or something like that

It depends on type of society. I mean, elves do not ring a bell as likely to discriminate on that ground, neither to worship anyone but Eru. And Dunedain likewise.

Now, if we're talking about orcs...

Farael · 12-21-2005, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohtatyaro

It depends on type of society. I mean, elves do not ring a bell as likely to discriminate on that ground, neither to worship anyone but Eru. And Dunedain likewise.

Now, if we're talking about orcs...

True, but I would guess MOST men and possibly dwarves might. And you never know, perhaps the dark elf (what was his name? the one who lived alone in a forest) was actually albino!

ohtatyaro · 12-21-2005, 02:37 AM

If you say that was the reason he 'shunned the sun'...

But here is his description from Silmarillion:

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'Lord,' he cried, 'the Guard have taken captive one that came by stealth to the Dark Gate. Eöl he names himself, and he is a tall Elf, dark and grim, of the kindred of the Sindar; yet he claims the Lady Aredhel as his wife, and demands to be brought before you

I mean, they would not call him 'dark', if he were albino, however 'grim' he may have looked to them

Farael · 12-21-2005, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohtatyaro

If you say that was the reason he 'shunned the sun'...

I mean, they would not call him 'dark', if he were albino, however 'grim' he may have looked to them

Maybe he had reverse-albinism?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medicale Science Journale

Reverse albinism: An uncommon disease caused by an over-accumulation of melanin, possibly due to a glandular reaction against a lack of that same pigment.

Edit: don't want to get into trouble.... just to be clear, I'm joking a little bit with that "journal entry".... as I have been proven clearly wrong!

Legolas · 12-21-2005, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu Ancalime

im pretty sure there is a difference between whate hair and albino hair. white is pigmented white, obviously, but albino hair would really be defined as clear, making the hair look the color of the skin behind it. i think a polar bear is an example.

Correct. Thus polar bears can sometimes appear creamy (from the sun) and green (from algae infections within their hair follicles).

05-01-2004, 05:48 PM	#1
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,332	Albino Elves Here's a question! If Races from all across Middle Earth have different skin tones (Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Easterlings), is there a possibility that some could be albino? Or is that a topic that Tolkien failed to notice? __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

05-01-2004, 06:39 PM	#3
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,332	Good point. But still, that would be cool if someone was albino. and it could be relavent to the story. After stealing the ring from Deagol, for some odd reason it could have made him albino, which was another reason to go into the cave. __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

05-01-2004, 08:25 PM	#4
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Gollum is descirbed as being bone white sometimes...mind you, other times he's black as night. Basically, from a distance the guy's a wretched chameleon. Albino's lack the menalin to handle the sun well...so though Orks have lots of pigment in them, you could say they suffer the ill-effects of albinosim. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

05-01-2004, 10:01 PM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,850	Albinism is a result of genetic mutation that causes a deficiency in melanin (there are several alterations that can trigger it). Who knows whether that mutation had showed up as early as Tolkien's stories take place? They certainly wouldn't have known what caused it, or even what to call it. Maybe Dwalin's blue beard was a result of some odd genetic mutation, though. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. Last edited by Legolas; 05-01-2004 at 10:15 PM.

08-03-2004, 11:25 AM	#7
Isowen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The blackened depths Posts: 86	Is there such a thing as Albino hair? Because most elves have white-blonde hair which is close enough isnt it? Elven folk are supposed to be fair of skin, so I suppose you could call them albino. It has a nice ring to it....."albino elves" In the films, the fellowship have more or less the same skin-tone but, just to raise a slightly different point; why do dwarves have darker skin than elves? Elves are almost always outside, so surely they should have a darker flesh than dwarves, who spend their time underground! (because of the whole sun thing!) Elves are pale, I suppose, to symbolise their purity and inner light. So you could call them albino. __________________ I hope Butterbur sends this promptly. A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber -room: Thing wanted always burried, If he forgets, I shall roast him.

02-04-2005, 02:26 PM	#10
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,916	Being etiolated from light deprivation is not the same as albinism. I have found various sites that point out various flaws in the genetics of Middle Earth. Although Mendel started his experiments in the 1850s it is fair to say that it was still a very new branch of science when Tolkien was writing and I wouldn't think that errors would cause much impairment of the work. Pale isn't the same as albino ... I was at school with a girl who was affected by it and it was far from cool. Aswell as lacking colour in hair and skin it always affects the eyes - in vision if not coulour - and she had a serious visual impairment. Elves certainly don't suffer from that. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

12-20-2005, 12:34 PM	#11
Valier Twisted Taleswapper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: somewhere between sanity and insanity Posts: 1,737	I know in the games there is albino Wargs...... __________________ grand return?........

12-20-2005, 07:41 PM	#12
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 479	im pretty sure there is a difference between whate hair and albino hair. white is pigmented white, obviously, but albino hair would really be defined as clear, making the hair look the color of the skin behind it. i think a polar bear is an example. ________ Vermont marijuana dispensaries Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 10:23 PM.