Tolkien on another top 10 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Beren87 · 01-17-2003, 07:18 PM

Gandalf the Grey has been ranked the tenth best sci-fi character in a recent poll by SFX mag. I thought this to be an honor until I saw who the other nine were, (besides the number one who I think deserve to be high on the list.)

The List

Iarwain · 01-17-2003, 07:50 PM

That list is very, very smelly. Half the characters are from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" On that list, Gandalf should be number one, for sure.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-17-2003, 08:01 PM

Top sci-fi characters of all time, eh?

Methinks this list is very much a product of its time.

But Dr Who at number one - that's heartening (unless, of course, they mean Colin Baker or Sylvester McCoy [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] ).

Sindafalathiel · 01-19-2003, 03:38 PM

Buffy Characters Ranking 2nd and 3rd?!?!? What is UP with thesse people! Gandalf is By Far the greatest!

Beren87 · 01-19-2003, 03:40 PM

Well, you have to think about all those 40-year old men sitting at home watching buffy. They're votes count too [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I can see Dr.Who at the top considering this is a predominatly Sci-Fi poll. He has had more inpact on that genre than Gandalf.

Gorothlammothiel · 01-19-2003, 03:45 PM

Should we perhaps be glad that even though we may not agree with the other choices, Gandalf making number ten is impressive considering this is a "top ten of all time science-fiction" and he is, of course, a fantasy character?

Beren87 · 01-19-2003, 03:47 PM

Quite, as that was my main reason for posting. The extent of Tolkien's influence is cross-genre. People respond to the character of Gandalf as a literary character, not just a Fantasy character. Like Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet (as much as I hate to make a shakespeare referance when speaking of Tolkien)

Gorothlammothiel · 01-19-2003, 03:52 PM

Indeed, Gandalf is a literary character also, but perhaps that genre is more acceptable considering that the LotR is a work of literature. I have yet to find the link between LotR and the science-fiction world [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Beren87 · 01-19-2003, 03:58 PM

Well, Tolkien wrote at the beginning of the century, when both genres were in their infancy. So his writing as a whole can be said to promote Sci-Fi. Fantasy and Sci-Fi are in essence the same thing, an escape from reality. He initiated fantasy (ignoring mythology such as Beowulf, and every religion, while assuming simply mainstream fantasy btw). They were one and the same in the beginning, and only recently have the two genres become seperated.

Gorothlammothiel · 01-19-2003, 04:04 PM

True, and all genres evolved from one original but today I would say that fantasy is set in another world etc whereas Science-fiction has to have that scientific element to it. Something perhaps not so apparent in LotR?

Beren87 · 01-19-2003, 04:08 PM

True, true. Fantasy is never a vision of things to come, as Sci-Fi can be. Which can really be said to be why Tolkien would be more drawn to it, as innovation was most certainly not his favorite thing. Fantasy, in my opinion, can be said to be more about civilization that Sci-Fi tends to be. Tolkien shows not only people, but cultures as a whole.

Gorothlammothiel · 01-19-2003, 04:10 PM

And that is one of the reasons we love his works, is it not?

Beren87 · 01-19-2003, 04:13 PM

Only one of the reasons, o'course. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

It always seemed, however, that a person could relate to characters easier in Sci-Fi than in Fantasy (partialy due to the ever-so-frequent first person p.o.v. that Sci-Fi has). Thats one of the reasons for Tolkien's success, that people can relate to his characters as well as his cultures. We can all feel Sam's devotion, Frodo's Pain, and Aragorn's indecisiveness (about his being King).

Gorothlammothiel · 01-19-2003, 04:17 PM

You forget Gollum's tourment, Boromir's struggle between what is right and wrong and his patriotism, Faramir's hope of proving himself, Eowyn's struggle against her love for the 'wrong' man and Arwen's choice to give up something for love...

All relative to this modern world?

Beren87 · 01-19-2003, 04:21 PM

OH yes, Boromir's patriotism and what to do with the ring for his country is especially relevant to American's at this time (with war and such). Tolkien's characters are emotionally developed, which a lot of big Fantasy writers fail to do. They instead attempt to recreate his knack for detail (in surroundings and such), and forget to focus on the how the reader is going to identify.

Heh, in a way, Tolkien's characters are human. While other fantasy characters are not.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-19-2003, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Well, you have to think about all those 40-year old men sitting at home watching buffy. They're votes count too

Hey, that's a bit unfair on us 30-40 somethings, isn't it? ... Now, excuse me while I go and see whether Willow's managed to beat that magic addiction ... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

And, whoever said that Buffy was sci-fi, anyway?

Beren87 · 01-19-2003, 10:13 PM

I shudder to call Buffy anything other than mass-apeal television directed towards people who enjoy...erm..well, "Buffy". The soap-opera Sci-Fi is all it is.

01-17-2003, 07:18 PM	#1
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,266	Tolkien on another top 10 Gandalf the Grey has been ranked the tenth best sci-fi character in a recent poll by SFX mag. I thought this to be an honor until I saw who the other nine were, (besides the number one who I think deserve to be high on the list.) The List

01-17-2003, 07:50 PM	#2
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 808	That list is very, very smelly. Half the characters are from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" On that list, Gandalf should be number one, for sure. __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"

01-17-2003, 08:01 PM	#3
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,468	Top sci-fi characters of all time, eh? Methinks this list is very much a product of its time. But Dr Who at number one - that's heartening (unless, of course, they mean Colin Baker or Sylvester McCoy [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] ). __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-19-2003, 03:38 PM	#4
Sindafalathiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Nargothrond Posts: 54	Buffy Characters Ranking 2nd and 3rd?!?!? What is UP with thesse people! Gandalf is By Far the greatest! __________________ "My Legions of Terror will be an equal-opportunity employer. Conversely, when it is prophesied that no man can defeat me, I will keep in mind the increasing number of non-traditional gender roles." ~The Evil Overlord List

01-19-2003, 03:40 PM	#5
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,266	Well, you have to think about all those 40-year old men sitting at home watching buffy. They're votes count too [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I can see Dr.Who at the top considering this is a predominatly Sci-Fi poll. He has had more inpact on that genre than Gandalf.

01-19-2003, 03:45 PM	#6
Gorothlammothiel Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sitting in front of my preferred world.... Posts: 256	Should we perhaps be glad that even though we may not agree with the other choices, Gandalf making number ten is impressive considering this is a "top ten of all time science-fiction" and he is, of course, a fantasy character?

01-19-2003, 03:47 PM	#7
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,266	Quite, as that was my main reason for posting. The extent of Tolkien's influence is cross-genre. People respond to the character of Gandalf as a literary character, not just a Fantasy character. Like Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet (as much as I hate to make a shakespeare referance when speaking of Tolkien)

01-19-2003, 03:52 PM	#8
Gorothlammothiel Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sitting in front of my preferred world.... Posts: 256	Indeed, Gandalf is a literary character also, but perhaps that genre is more acceptable considering that the LotR is a work of literature. I have yet to find the link between LotR and the science-fiction world [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

01-19-2003, 03:58 PM	#9
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,266	Well, Tolkien wrote at the beginning of the century, when both genres were in their infancy. So his writing as a whole can be said to promote Sci-Fi. Fantasy and Sci-Fi are in essence the same thing, an escape from reality. He initiated fantasy (ignoring mythology such as Beowulf, and every religion, while assuming simply mainstream fantasy btw). They were one and the same in the beginning, and only recently have the two genres become seperated.

01-19-2003, 04:04 PM	#10
Gorothlammothiel Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sitting in front of my preferred world.... Posts: 256	True, and all genres evolved from one original but today I would say that fantasy is set in another world etc whereas Science-fiction has to have that scientific element to it. Something perhaps not so apparent in LotR?

01-19-2003, 04:08 PM	#11
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,266	True, true. Fantasy is never a vision of things to come, as Sci-Fi can be. Which can really be said to be why Tolkien would be more drawn to it, as innovation was most certainly not his favorite thing. Fantasy, in my opinion, can be said to be more about civilization that Sci-Fi tends to be. Tolkien shows not only people, but cultures as a whole.

01-19-2003, 04:10 PM	#12
Gorothlammothiel Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sitting in front of my preferred world.... Posts: 256	And that is one of the reasons we love his works, is it not?

01-19-2003, 04:13 PM	#13
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,266	Only one of the reasons, o'course. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] It always seemed, however, that a person could relate to characters easier in Sci-Fi than in Fantasy (partialy due to the ever-so-frequent first person p.o.v. that Sci-Fi has). Thats one of the reasons for Tolkien's success, that people can relate to his characters as well as his cultures. We can all feel Sam's devotion, Frodo's Pain, and Aragorn's indecisiveness (about his being King).

01-19-2003, 04:17 PM	#14
Gorothlammothiel Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sitting in front of my preferred world.... Posts: 256	You forget Gollum's tourment, Boromir's struggle between what is right and wrong and his patriotism, Faramir's hope of proving himself, Eowyn's struggle against her love for the 'wrong' man and Arwen's choice to give up something for love... All relative to this modern world?

01-19-2003, 04:21 PM	#15
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,266	OH yes, Boromir's patriotism and what to do with the ring for his country is especially relevant to American's at this time (with war and such). Tolkien's characters are emotionally developed, which a lot of big Fantasy writers fail to do. They instead attempt to recreate his knack for detail (in surroundings and such), and forget to focus on the how the reader is going to identify. Heh, in a way, Tolkien's characters are human. While other fantasy characters are not.

01-19-2003, 10:13 PM	#17
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,266	I shudder to call Buffy anything other than mass-apeal television directed towards people who enjoy...erm..well, "Buffy". The soap-opera Sci-Fi is all it is.