Elves & Fantasy Novels.......... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

GollumsPrecious · 01-13-2002, 11:00 AM

Howdy...I've been taking a break from the Middle Earth stuff to read a bit of good old fantasy. The book I'm reading is a Terry Brooks one called "The Voice Of The Jerle Shannara (Book 1) - Isle Witch".

It's quite good but the question I have concerns Elves. This book features Elves and even refers to them as the first born. What is the deal with Elves ?

Do ALL fantasy authors call Elves, First Born ? Are all Elves in Fantasy novels basically the same sort of thing ? Basically I am trying to work out where the concept of an "Elf" started...I am assuming it must go way back into childrens fairy tales but is Toklkien's definition of them the one most modern day Fantasy authors use ? In other words is it an unwriten rule of Modern day fantasy that Elves were the first people around ?

Cheers....Paul.

zifnab · 01-13-2002, 11:57 AM

Quote:

In other words is it an unwriten rule of Modern day fantasy that Elves were the first people around ?

I dont know about that, but elves are not human/man. They are a different race, and must have a different culture and background and history to put them apart from all the other races, just like dwarvers or halflings, kenders, gnomes, giants, trolls, minataurs, dragons, etc, etc. Many fantasy novels do make their version of the races very similiar to other novels.

Alot of the novels I have read that include elves, do call them the "First born". It seems to me that alot of people imitiated Tolkiens version of Elves, although he did not create them. Must Elves all love outdoors and are excellent marksmen. Must elves are not considered as barbaric as the other races. Many elves in other worlds, are the same, some are imortal, some are mortal but live for hundreds of years, some get sick, some dont. Some are the Gods favorite, some are not. Some get along with the other races, some think they are superior.
It mostly depends on the author. And how she/he wants their world to be like.

I always was fund of the way that Tolkien used magic in his world. It is quite diffrent than the norm. But thats what makes it a great novel.

Gwindor · 01-13-2002, 09:47 PM

In the shannara series, elves are the most ancient race (much like in middle earth), and they date back to the times of faery. Back in the time of faery, elves were capable of much more magic, where as now the elves are limited to a few "freak" elves, the druids, and some talismans. I do believe, however, that Tolkien did set some type of standard for the way that elves were to be presented in fantasy. But to the contrary, in Harry Potter, elves are more like slaves than revered beings. (How dare I compare HP to LOTR!!!!!!?????) [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] But then again, Harry Potter and LOTR are two different forms a fantasy!!!

Gwindor

Elrian · 01-13-2002, 10:04 PM

Also the Elves in the Shannara series are not immortal, like Tolkiens. They are a very popular fantasy character.

01-14-2002, 10:38 AM

Sometimes, I think that authors are influenced by other authors, and just like a concept that the other one uses, so they use it! I have read many books where elves are not "first born." Some people just like that idea i spose. But also, Elves aren't men, and I guess they like to toy with the thought that men weren't the first people here. They don't always just copy the other authors, for example, Tolkien's Elves are tall, and noble, where in most books you see them portrayed as little leprechaun things.

01-13-2002, 11:00 AM	#1
GollumsPrecious Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: UK Posts: 21	Elves & Fantasy Novels.......... Howdy...I've been taking a break from the Middle Earth stuff to read a bit of good old fantasy. The book I'm reading is a Terry Brooks one called "The Voice Of The Jerle Shannara (Book 1) - Isle Witch". It's quite good but the question I have concerns Elves. This book features Elves and even refers to them as the first born. What is the deal with Elves ? Do ALL fantasy authors call Elves, First Born ? Are all Elves in Fantasy novels basically the same sort of thing ? Basically I am trying to work out where the concept of an "Elf" started...I am assuming it must go way back into childrens fairy tales but is Toklkien's definition of them the one most modern day Fantasy authors use ? In other words is it an unwriten rule of Modern day fantasy that Elves were the first people around ? Cheers....Paul. __________________ Ugluk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob bubhosh skai'...

01-13-2002, 09:47 PM	#3
Gwindor Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 30	In the shannara series, elves are the most ancient race (much like in middle earth), and they date back to the times of faery. Back in the time of faery, elves were capable of much more magic, where as now the elves are limited to a few "freak" elves, the druids, and some talismans. I do believe, however, that Tolkien did set some type of standard for the way that elves were to be presented in fantasy. But to the contrary, in Harry Potter, elves are more like slaves than revered beings. (How dare I compare HP to LOTR!!!!!!?????) [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] But then again, Harry Potter and LOTR are two different forms a fantasy!!! Gwindor __________________ 5/4 of people have problems with fractions.

01-13-2002, 10:04 PM	#4
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Also the Elves in the Shannara series are not immortal, like Tolkiens. They are a very popular fantasy character. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

01-14-2002, 10:38 AM	#5
Snowy Guest Posts: n/a	Sometimes, I think that authors are influenced by other authors, and just like a concept that the other one uses, so they use it! I have read many books where elves are not "first born." Some people just like that idea i spose. But also, Elves aren't men, and I guess they like to toy with the thought that men weren't the first people here. They don't always just copy the other authors, for example, Tolkien's Elves are tall, and noble, where in most books you see them portrayed as little leprechaun things.