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10-09-2001, 12:09 PM | #1 |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,314
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The Palantiri
The Silmarillion attributes the making of the Palantiri to Fëanor. Yet we know that the jewels of the House of Finwë were lost when Morgoth sacked Formenelos. How did the palantiri then remain available to the Eldar to gift them to the Lords of Andunië in the second age? And why were they not given to the king of Numenor?
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10-09-2001, 02:33 PM | #2 |
Wight
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Well, I might be able to explain one part. When it says all of the jewels were taken, maybe it means jewels as in little shiny precious stones, which the Palantari (is it Palantari or Palantiri, I'm not sure) wouldn't be considered. Of course, that would bring up the whole discussion on the size of the Palantari [whether they are little precious stone sized, or basketball sized], but, that's all I have time for now. (I only have limited internet access at the time being)
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10-10-2001, 08:53 AM | #3 |
Wight
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vantaa, Finland
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About the sizes of the palantiri:
Unfinished Tales tells us that the minor palantiri (such as the ones of Orthanc, Minas Anor, Minas Ithil and probably Annuminas) were about one foot in diameter. The largest ones (those in Amon Sul and Osgiliath) were too large for one man to lift - quite big, I'd say. I'd assume that the one in the towers of Emyn Beraid was somewhere in the between. About the history of all the palantiri: I do not think that the palantiri were counted as "jewels". They were more like "crystal balls" and I see no reason to assume that they weren't used by the Noldor when the stones were first made. They were tools of communication after all, and the Elves prabably kept one in Tuna for the Noldor, one in Formenos for Finwe and others of his house, one with the Teleri in Alqualonde, one with the Vanyar in Valmar and so on... Now why were they given to the Faithful (Elendil, to be exact) and not the Kings of Numenor in earlier times? While I believe that originally there were more palantiri than just seven in Valinor, I don't think that they were a very common commodity even there. If the palantiri really were made by Feanor, then they were irreplaceable (is that a word?) too, and ones which were given away from the Undying Lands were permanently lost from the Elves. So, they can't have been given just out of pure generosity (it would've been far too great a loss for that), but the Elves must have known that Elendil and his followers were in deep trouble and that they needed secret means of communication in order to avoid the inquisition - and the palantiri were just right for that. |
10-10-2001, 09:32 AM | #4 |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,314
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I tend to agree with Elenhin. The palantiri's primary use was communication (or intelligence gathering). If they existed and had such a purpose, why lock them away. They were likely distributed to various people/places and none (or maybe just one, a large stone) was in Formenos.
There were only 7 given to the Faithful. One more was apparently kept in Tol Eressea. There may have been others. We don't know when the palantiri were given to the Faithful. Perhaps they were given to the royal family and passed on to the faithful like the Ring of Barahir.
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Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land. |
10-10-2001, 12:58 PM | #5 |
Wight
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Just to verify, in The Silmarillion, it says that the stones were given to Elendil so that he and the other Faithful people in Numenor could communicate. I remember reading it for sure but am too lazy to go get the quote. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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10-16-2001, 03:16 AM | #6 |
Stonehearted Dwarf Smith
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Interesting Mithadan - I have posed the excact same question here and much earlier in Michael Martinez board - but these answers summon it up.
Elendur, you are not quite right. The stones were given by the elves og Eressa to Elendils father Amandil. We know of eight stones only... We know that the 8ths stone were the masterstone - We know that the Lager stones of Osgilliath and probably Amon Sûl could survey the other stones while these "spoke" with each other. Maybe the Master Stone could evesdrop on all the seven stones of ME. The elves of Eressa could not give themself a better oppotunity to keep in touch with what was happening in ME. Giving the Stones to the Faithful could be considered like putting a webcam in your childs bedroom so you could stay informed from a long distance... I aggree with those that speculate that there were more that 8 stones. They might and they might not have been in Formenos when it was attacked... actually there would be no point in keeping more than one palantiri in the same place unless it involved transportation. Cheers Telchar
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09-22-2010, 04:24 PM | #7 | |
Emperor of the South Pole
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Western Shore of Lake Evendim
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Quote:
Which brings up the question of how exactly do they work? |
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09-24-2010, 08:47 AM | #8 | |||||
Laconic Loreman
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As far as why the Eldar gave the palantiri to the Faithful and not the King of Numenor:
Quote:
Quote:
Edit: Quote:
They can't transmit sound but they transmit thoughts, which is how they appear to most commonly be used for communication. Quote:
If we go under the assumption that Feanor made them (a pretty safe assumption). Since, Gandalf alludes to this possibility in LOTR and in The Silm: Quote:
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Last edited by Boromir88; 09-24-2010 at 09:39 AM. |
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09-26-2010, 12:08 PM | #9 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 275
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I assumed that the stones all communicated via some sort of Middle Earth WiFi
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