Lonely Star: Fanfiction/RPG discussion

[Mithadan]

Of course. So sorrry. My bad. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[piosenniel]

Sharon - I've placed the 'boys' at the "Broken Pikestaff" - can you do a set up scene before Pio and Bird wander in, followed closely by the Guard and the informant.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Will reserve space and finish this evening.

[piosenniel]

Excellent! I'm off to work - not home til after midnight Pacific Time!

[mark12_30]

Sharon, We cross-posted. Let me know if my post works, if not it can disappear.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Your post is fine. Please see my pm. Hope you don't mind that I need to append to your post to resolve the problem about the drinks.

sharon

[Child of the 7th Age]

Pio,

Cami has disobeyed you and gone off to do her motherly duty. Now, she's managed to get herself in a pack of trouble, so you'll need to rescue 3 hobbits instead of 2!

sharon

[piosenniel]

Pio has the lads and Cami in tow. I do need you to edit your post - I needed Brodda in my post - can you make it so he doesn't run off home, please.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Pio,

Thank you. Post edited. Brodda is gone, and I've made the ending blend in with your beginning.

One small edit needed. Could you add a "picture" or "framed picture" to the list of items on the bar. That was another of the things that we found.

[mark12_30]

Sharon, see my PM when you get a chance, thanks, --Helen

[Child of the 7th Age]

Helen,

Have responded with an outline of the posts.

sharon

[Child of the 7th Age]

Have finally finished editing that humongous, long post.

Pio and Mith -- Please read carefully as Cami may come banging on your door or picketing your cabin after you get the serious affairs of state resolved. (I will move the square as needed until you resolve the matters with the King.)

Pio chains Cami for "disobeying" orders. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Surely this is the pot calling the kettle black!

Helen--What happend to your post that disappeared?

sharon

[piosenniel]

Sorry, Cami [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] - but Pio is on task, and seeks the shortest and most assured means to its completion.

[Birdland]

I filled in my "save", but it doesn't really fit into the chronology. Can it be shuffled around some way?

[piosenniel]

Sharon & Bird

I shuffled the posts - I think yours (Bird) fit in fine.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Sorry, Cami - but Pio is on task, and seeks the shortest and most assured means to its completion.

Sharon understands; Cami does not.

Given who Cami is, she will be shaken to the core. The fact that these actions came from a friend, who has given her all to the hobbits, will make the situation all the more distressing to her.

Let me explain this scenario from Cami's perspective.

First, 'family' is the core value of hobbit cuture. No hobbit would sit still if their child was in danger without attempting to help them. Cami is no different in this regard. Since Cami managed to survive the Orcs, the work camps, and the Tombs, it is likely that she would have the backbone to deal with a "dicey bar," particularly if she was with friends.

Unfortunately, the post was done in such a way that it was impossible for Cami to disagree or put forward her objections to Pio's orders to stay put and wait on the street corner. The issue was set down and decided in a single post, with no answer or rebuttal possible, since the Elf had since departed.

Cami had two choices: to accept the ultimatum, which went against her conscience, or disobey and help her son. She chose the latter.

Cami has witnessed character after character disregard orders and go off and do whatever they wanted. The Elf has been particularly flagrant in this regard.(Come on, admit it!) Yet, no other character has been reprimanded for their misdeeds, let alone ended up in chains.

As a result of all this, Cami was chained together with two children, ushered to her cabin as a prisoner in the sight of all the hobbits who regard her as their leader, and told that she would be 'dealt with' tomorrow. Moreover, two hobbrim children were told to guard her and keep her from further interference.

There was never any question in earlier posts of Cami threatening to flee or acting as a truant. She was the one who informed Pio of the boys' departure and asked for her help in getting them back (in response to a pm request by Pat). This was no lark for Cami. She was worried about her son and wanted to get the boys back to the ship as quickly as possible. This was her only purpose in going.

Pio was aware of all this, but didn't trust Cami to walk back without chains. Since flight was clearly never an issue, Cami can only believe the chaining was done to make her an object of jest. Certainly, Mith interpreted it that way.
[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Cami is not Merri or Pippin who would see the episode in chains as a lark. She is a fifty-year old, older than anyone on the Star except the Elves, and has been accorded the title of 'wise woman' by her people. She has been through poverty; hard times; the loss of her family, her Shire, and her husband-to-be; but she has stubbornly clung to her dignity, even during her ten-year tenure in Minas Anor where she would surely have been regarded as an oddity. In many respects, she is the poor man's female Bilbo.

Now that dignity has been stripped away. She has been paraded not only in front of city residents, but also before her own people who regard her as their leader, and has been placed under house arrest by two teenagers. She does not feel any of this would have happened had she been one of the big folk in a comparable leadership position, perhaps, say, a nobleman from Rohan.

Moreoever, these are not the happy hobbits of the Shire. They are all veterans of brutal work camps. Chains for them are no joke. The last time Cami was in chains was on the forced march out of Beleriand. She watched hundreds of hobbits collapse on the trail and die, still being dragged along by their chains until the Orcs cut them loose. She has supressed most of these memories. Now they will return. Even for the other hobbits who only witness the chain gang, it bring back haunting recollections of Numenor and raises questions about the extent to which big folk can be trusted.

The real irony that lies behind all this is that the old Cami would never have the gumption to stand up and disobey. She is able to do this because of the model of Pio, whom she greatly admires. Yet, when Cami makes what is essentially an adult decision, she's treated like a child by the one person who taught her to behave like an adult. What a disappoinment!

Just think of it this way. What if Pio's twins were captured by two huge stone trolls, and it was suggested the Elf stay behind, since those trolls were a bit large for her? Do you think she would listen to that? Heck no! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] And if anyone tried to put Pio in chains, she would give them a taste of their own medicine (good for her!).

I am not asking for wiping out the posts. I don't believe in censorship, and there are too many that would need to be edited (Helen's, Bird's, mine, Mith's--all have elements of this.) But we'll need to deal with these issues in some serious way in the dialogue between these two characters.

Any idea?

sharon

[ December 14, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[piosenniel]

Sharon

Just posted a scene between Gamba and Pio

Moved your confrontation save below that one. (or go ahead and move mine if you need to)

Pat, the writer agrees - Pio was rash, cannot say what or if she will offer any rationalization for her actions. Hit me with her indignation and anger, and let's see how Pio responds. (This would be so much easier if Pio were a perfect super-hero character! she would never do anything wrong.)

Another thought - here is an alternative - I'll go back and take out that scene and you can rewrite it if you wish. perhaps that would be simpler.

[ December 14, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks for letting Cami rail.

Also, you'll want to back up on the thread. There's a new post Helen did on the 'hobbits in chains' theme. Quite humorous in a grim way. Plus, I revised my 'locked in the cabin post' to make it grimmer yet.

I think we are best treating the 'chains' as part of the story line. It is interwoven in too many of the posts to take it out with a knife.

It is even possible that the characters of both Cami and Pio will learn something new about themselves through this dialogue.

Perhaps, the easiest way to do it is this. Cami writes a letter to Pio outlining her anger and concerns (a condensed version of what's on the discussion thread). Then Pio comes to see Cami and talk( in a separate post). Would this work?

I will probably not get the letter up till tomorrow afternoon. Weekends are crammed.

Cami also has to talk to Gamba, if she doesn't kill him first.

sharon

[mark12_30]

Dang!! And I was set up to begin with!!!

[piosenniel]

Yes - here is one thing Pio has learned - she is horrified to learn that she would ever be considered a role model. (What an awful time this one will have being a mother!)

A letter is too clean a come-uppance for Pio - I really think Cami should challenge her face to face.

[ December 14, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Face to face, huh? TeHe. That should be fun. I'll think evil thoughts all night for Cami, and do it tomorrow afternoon.

sharon

[Birdland]

(Birdie barges in) "Hey Cami, can I please get my boots back, now? My feet are freez..."

(See Cami and Pio glaring at each other and backs s-l-o-o-w-l-y out of the room.)

[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Helen here, in disguise... whups, it does get confusing.

Eh, speaking of cold feet, I've edited my last two long posts on Page Twelve; Gamba is in a deeper funk than we thought, and Bird, he has miscontrued and extrapolated some of your warnings well beyond warrant.

Perhaps the haze of alcohol and the hangover had something to do with it.

(Sometimes I miss my happy-go-lucky rascal of five months ago. What a wreck he's become!)

--Don't let the signature fool you

[ December 16, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Cami fumbles under the bed for those boots. Actually, she thinks they're lying somewhere on the streets of Minas Anor. The chains wouldn't go around her ankles without kicking off those boots--Cami has big feet even for a hobbit, which is a matter of great pride.

Bird, would you like me to get off the Star and go down to the market to buy you another pair? Oops, I don't think so. Leaving the ship again? UhUh, been there, done that. No need to get in trouble twice.

Cami will have to do chores in the galley to earn credits towards those boots. Remember she used herlast farthing to bail out her delinquent son.

********************************************

Ahem, once the Elf and Cami have made up, the hobbit will knock some sense into her delinquent son!

sharon

[mark12_30]

Dang, dang, DANG!!! Whose idea was this mad jaunt anyway??? I seem to recall "Hobbits go off and cause trouble" or something like that. And it wasn't in a Mark12_30 post!!!!

And for the record, I would have asked Esta's brother to come, and not Kesha. Even a flake like me would have guessed those webbed feet would be a dead giveaway.

grumble, grumble, grumble. I'm gonna build myself a flet up at the source of the Langwell river and live off of fish and mushrooms and not tell ANYBODY where I've gone.

[Birdland]

Oh, well, you probably stretched out those boots, anyway. But next time, couldn't you borrow Mith's boots, instead? He obviously could afford them, what with giving away all those knifes and such.

BTW, Mith - just why did Bird make such a fuss about those knifes, anyway?

Oh, and Cami? (Bird heaves small purse at Halfling.) I swam around the river and found this. Don't spend it all in one place.

[ December 16, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

[mark12_30]

Bird and/ or Pio,

Sharon called my attention to a conversation about Cami in The Green Dragon, and there was also a question asked about Gamba's descendants. If he survives the next few days, Game Time, he will probably have some.

Assuming Cami doesn't throttle him in the next few posts, would you like some stuff about Doldo, Noldo, Sindo, Mallie, and Lorien?

[piosenniel]

Helen

Yes, if you don't mind. A little info, too, on where the surviving families of them might be would be nice.

I'd like the old Hobbit, Amaranthas to mumble a few 'facts' to Pio, before the old dear falls asleep on the table from too much mead and wine.

[mark12_30]

OK, Pat, it's underway. I'll forward it to you when it's ready. It'll probably be much more than you need...

It makes me want to write an epilogue for Lindo, too.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Cami and the Elf are now arm in arm, if not eye-to-eye. Later tonight, I'll tackle Gamba (and by implication Phura).

Mith--

I thanked you from the hobbits, and raised a question about our transport arrangements.

Bird---

Thanks for the purse. When you have children, you always seem to need extra funds as they are always needing this and that.

sharon

[ December 16, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Mithadan]

Mithadan has answered your query, Child, as well as Bird's.

[mark12_30]

Pio,

Gamba's epilogue is on its way; it's a draft but there should be enough there to provide interesting fodder for Amarantha, about Gamba. I cc'ed team members.

More on Noldo and Sindo is available atThe Fairy Wife.

Hope that helps, --Helen

[ December 16, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Helen,

That's a great piece on Gamba and his descendents, but there's one place where our chronologies id not jive.

You had Cami going to Rivendell after Asta and Roka came of age. Wouldn't they be of age in another 22 years? That would make Cami retiring to Rivendell when she was just 72 which is way too young.

Plus, there's no way she would trot off to Rivendell when Ban and Maura hadn't even come of age. I see her sticking around to age 96 or 97, getting some grandchildren from Rose and the others! She wouldn't have left until her last child was married and settled, or at least come of age.

Cami lived to be 100 years old and went to Rivendell for the last 3-4 years of her life. If you want to keep the same time line for Gamba, you could just have him leave Cami after Rose gets married and has children of her own. That would probably happen in 20-25 years. Presumably, Gamba still would have come back and visited Rose and Cami occasionally.

What do you think?

sharon

[ December 17, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[mark12_30]

Sure, that'll work. I'll make some edits and send it on. Thanks.

By the way I've posted a discussion between Gamba and Mithadan, which finishes with Miths' departure and Cami's arrival; you're "on".

[ December 17, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Helen,

You're going to kill me! But shouldn't Greenwood be Mirkwood in your epilogue? That change happened about 1050.

Also, when Gamba was young, he would have met some of the Wood Elves and actually lived in Greenwood. That's where we're heading once we leave the boat. They are actually going to meet and help us for a bit. That's what Gandalf promised. Plus I need the Greenwood base for Cami's ties to
Radagast and the subsequent shapechanger story. Radagast lives there (for real in Tolkien!)

Presumably, though, as spiders and Orcs began to appear, the hobbits moved out of Greenwood/Mirkwood and lost many of those ties with the Wood Elves. Cami was the only hobbit to have connections with Rivendell, and those came through Gandalf, I presume. I don't know if you'd need a phrase simply saying it was many years since Gamba had been in Greenwood when you speak of Thranduil.

sharon

[mark12_30]

Living In Greenwood? All right. I always imagined the hobbits living on the west bank of the Anduin and visiting Greenwood-- presumeably because the Gladden fields are on the west bank, I suppose.

I know Gamba made a big fuss about Greenwood, but I pictured him being seriously disenchanted about elves and men both, by recent events, and thinking only of getting as far away from Minas Anor as he could. I guess you're going to talk him out of that disenchantement, though, right?

Then I'll edit the stuff about Thranduil; but I still picture him carefully, rather suspiciously and judiciously making friends with just a few elves who travel through regularly, and not trusting them as travelling companions until he had really proved them as friends. It's one thing, as we have seen, to trust a group of elves all on a mission together helping a large group of hobbits; and another thing to trust a single elf. You lose that "safety in numbesr" thing. And those Rhovanion elves are mighty suspicious of outsiders, and so the suspicion is mutual. I still see Gamba aas being very careful up at the Langwell.

I didn't think it was Mirkwood yet. I thought it was still Greenwood. The shadow was only beginning, so I don't see them changing the name yet, not until Dol Guldor is more prominent.

From Encyclopedia of Arda: "The name 'Mirkwood' was first used in about III 1050...".

ref. Mirkwood: The name 'Mirkwood' was used of this forest after Sauron, in his guise as the Necromancer, took up his abode at Dol Guldur in its southern regions.

ref. Dol Guldor: Founded c. III 1050.

So I stand by Greenwood! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

You're right about the name. I was thinking it was already 1050 when Gamba visited there, but if it is earlier than that, you are definitely right!

Greenwood is a huge place. Although they initially help us, I don't think we'll be banging into Elves every day. Initially, I see a lot of movement within a small area--no permananent settlement. Perhaps the hobbits went down to the river for the winter and back to the woods for the summer months.

I think the hobbits would have stayed pretty close together for the first 5 years or so. That way, Cami could make sure to train enough healers and people who had certain basic skills. I see Rose and Cami doing rounds like itinerent preachers both for teaching and healing purposes, at least till the different groups get their own folk trained. From about ten years out, I can imagine the hobbits gradually breaking into different groups, according to clans, and going off to found new communities (as Gamba did).

That would be painful for Cami. In her heart of hearts, she thinks they should stick together. The worst example of that would be dragging Maura off to the north. Grr!! That would have made her pretty mad! Surely she would have visited that community at some point. Plus, Gamba better come back and visit, or she'll kill him.

It would not be a frequent thing, but now and again, every few years, Gandalf might turn up. When he saw that Cami was becoming infirm, and didn't have a lot of time left (sniff), he would have gotten her into the Rivdendell Retirement Community. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Sharon

[Child of the 7th Age]

Your post is great. I added a little bit in between Mithadan and Gamba. I will work on the response.

This isn't going to be easy! Plus today is hectic. I'm trying to get my work done, so I can see the movie tomorrow.

sharon

[mark12_30]

CAMI, PIO, BIRD--

Due to Cami's questions, I took a hard look at my timeline on Gamba and his descendants, and now I'm scrambling -- please put it on hold til I finish the math?? I find the story is changing in a disarmingly fluid manner...

Sharon, thanks for making me check the math! I'll pull it together as soon as I can!

Love y'all, --Helen

[Mithadan]

*Mithadan stands by the gangplank of The Lonely Star, impatiently tapping his foot and thinking grumpily that we may have spent more time winding down than we did battling in the Tombs.

(Gamba's epilogue is great, by the way)