TIG CXVII: Admin Thread

[Galadriel55]

Welcome to the 117th game of Werewolf! Technically the 116th, Rikae's game, hasn't happened yet, but I have faith that one day it will. This is the place to discuss rules, roles, and other game details. I am putting up a tentative outline, subject to discussion and feedback and finetuning. Please chip in to help make this game as balanced as we can.

Set Up
Barahir's band of 13 (or 11 or 10, however many we get) men could not be put down by strength alone, so Sauron decides to conquer them by sorcery. Unbeknownst to the rest, 2 (or 3) of the men have been replaced by Sauron's puppets, intent on wiping out the rest one by one. By his sorcery, they were made identical in shape to the men well known to Barahir and his loyal followers, impossible to distinguish by appearance. Will Barahir's band survive, or will Sauron triumph?

Wolves - Sauron's puppets / spies
Ranger - Beren
Seer - Barahir
Ghost - Gorlim (note: this is not one single person)


ROLES
The Goodies: win when all the wolves are gone
Ordinary villagers, aka ordos - the bulk of the village. No special powers, no Nightly activities.
Ranger - during the Day, acts like an ordinary villager. But at Night, selects a villager to protect by sending the mod a PM with the identity of their chosen target. If the wolves and the Ranger target the same person, there is no kill that Night. The Ranger may NOT protect himself. He may NOT protect the same person for 2 Nights in a row.
Seer - at Night can dream the identity of other players. Sends one name via PM to find out their role each Night, starting on Night 1.

Ghost - a "traveling" role. Players on the DT may be elected to become the Ghost for 1 Day and haunt the GT. See the DT section for details.

The baddies: win when the number of wolves is equal to the number of innocents
Wolves - 3 in quantity. Pretend to be innocent during the Day. At night, plot and choose a villager to kill. The identity of the kill is communicated to the mod at Night by PM.

** All PMing roles, please send your picks at least 15 minutes before DL.**


THREADS
Game starts with Night 1. Wolves may PM and plot but not kill, Seer may dream. The rest of the game rules and Nightly activities kick in starting on Day 1. The first Night just allows the wolves to say hello to each other, and gives the Seer a head start.

Game Thread, aka Living Thread, aka GT
The realm of the Living, and the Ghost. Players may only post during the Day. Before the end of the Day, they must cast a vote to select a player to be lynched. That player joins the Dead Thread at DL.
During the Night, only the wolves and gifteds are active via PMs. Players killed during the Night join the Dead Thread the following Day, at the announcement of their death.

Dead Thread, aka DT, aka The Cuties
The realm of the Dead. They may post in both Day and Night phases. During the Day, they participate in the living lynch by casting a collective vote. The person with the most votes will receive a vote on the GT; in the event of ties on the DT the first person to reach the max number of votes is selected. During they Night, they vote on whether or not they want to send a Ghost for the following Day, and who the Ghost should be.

• During the Day, the Dead cast their votes for a Living player. Whoever gets the most votes at DL gets an extra vote, by the same principles of voting as the Game Thread works. The Dead-deadline is identical to the main DL.
• At the start of the Night, the DT gets a snippet of information from me, not too revealing but giving some info about the previous Day, including wolf and gifted activities. Once a wolf joins the DT, the release of this info will be delayed by 6h. The wolf/wolves will be given an option of 2-3 sentences by PM; the one they choose for publication will be posted. They have 6h after DL to make this choice. If an answer is not received by then, one of the sentences will be posted at random.
• During the Night, the dead get to mull over this info. They also vote for a Ghost or No Ghost. Person with most votes will be selected as the Ghost on the break of Day, and the name announced on both threads. If the majority of votes say ++No Ghost, then no Ghost will appear.
• If a Ghost is chosen, for the duration of the next Day he haunts the Game Thread. During this time he cannot look at the DT or participate in the DT vote. In the GT, he can only speak in Tolkien quotes which must be in full sentences and at least 5 words long. References are appreciated but not required. He is not allowed to quote players, link, emphasize text (eg bold/italics). There is no limit to how many posts he can make that Day, or how many Tolkien quotes he can put in a single post. He does not vote on the GT.
• The Living cannot give specific instructions to the Ghost, under punishment of Isildur's Curse: they shall be banned from both the Living and the Dead threads. They are allowed to ask the Ghost questions, and of course allowed to discuss the Ghost's statements.
• A Ghost may only be sent 3 times in the game.

OTHER RULES
Voting:

• Living players MUST cast a vote every Day while alive. Failure to vote for 2 Days in a row without extenuating circumstances will result in being sent to the Dead Thread prematurely.
• Players in the DT are strongly encouraged to keep participating, because they can still influence the outcome of the game. However, they are not obligated to do so, and will receive no punishment for not voting.
• Votes must be cast before the DL. Votes at DL:00 will be counted, but DL:01 is considered late and therefore the vote will not be counted in the tally.
• Votes should be on a separate line and highlighted for easy visibility, thus:
  
  ++G55
  
  To make them red, use [highlight!] and [/highlight!] without the exclamation marks (they are there to prevent the code from disappearing).
• Tied votes: still open to proposals. Some possibilities: First to reach tie is lynched. Last to tie is lynched. Neither is lynched. If DT vote is involved in the tie, that vote carries more weight than a Living vote and breaks the tie.

Deadline:

• 11pm GMT

All players must turn on Invisible Mode (found under your Control Panel).
All players must make sure there is room in their inbox for PMs.



VICTI - errrm, PLAYERS:
Formendacil
Huinesoron
Greenie
Loslote
Legate
Soriman
Pitch
Morsul
Sally
Boro
Kath
Lommy


Sign-ups will remain open until 1h before DL before the start of Night 1, ie 10pm GMT on April 19th. Night 1 starts 11pm GMT.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Sorry; I meant that "the Ghost" could be a role used by the DT in one of two ways: either to send in during the Day to talk to the LT, or as a Dead Seer read. In the latter case, there wouldn't be an actual 'Ghost' talking to the Living.

Ah, as in: we want to use one of the 3 Ghostly apparitions to dream Living!G55 instead of sending a messenger.

Or: we vote Dead!G55 as the Ghost. Now, G55 has a choice, to either haunt the village during the Day, or at some point that Day to divine the identity of a villager, but not both. I suppose the Ghost would have all Day to make the choice, until they commit to one path.

Originally Posted by Hui

Nice development of the idea. So the dead wolf gets to decide what the dead learn? Secretly, or does everyone see their options?

If everyone sees it, that loses the point, no? I was thinking that I PM the wolf, and they have, say, 12h to make a choice on which statement gets shared with the DT. This gives them two benefits: they see more information than the rest of the DT (and might divine the gifted's identity perhaps), and they have some control over the information that the dead innocents see. At the end of 12h, if the wolf does not respond, I will select a statement at random to post, so the DT is not left floundering without information. The 12h can also be a shorter time, say 2h. Preferably something that doesn't bias against a particular time zone.

Originally Posted by Hui

Do these Night effects also happen on the Night when there's only one dead player? It would be kind of funny for a dead Wolf to come back and just mock the living all day long.

I would say that's within the rights of a Fenrissed Wolf. ^.^

The consolation prize of the D1 lynchee is that they get to control all the power of the DT.

Originally Posted by Hui

I'm kind of inclined to the liberal version, perhaps with the proviso that if it really breaks things, the mod can switch to a limited version for subsequent ghost appearances.

That's sensible. If the first apparition breaks things, the rules may be modified for the subsequent ones.

Originally Posted by Hui

As long as the mod is fair when it comes to subjective posting (is "long quotes aren't very helpful" an instruction? How about "that wasn't very helpful"?), sure.

I think that falls within the realm of general discussion. What I wouldn't want to see is "If you know G55 is a wolf, post a quote from A Long Expected Party. If you think but don't know G55 is a wolf, post a quote from An Unexpected Party". But interacting with a Ghost is fine, I think, via responses like "I think the Ghost means X", or "that wasn't very helpful". I am inclined to allow questions, eg "Ghost, is X true?", without instructions about the answer. But that can probably be abused more... Suggestions?

Also, would it be fair to limit the Ghost's power just slightly, by making him wait at least 10 minutes between posts? That can curb last-minute ouija sessions at DL, but still allows ample participation throughout the Day.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

[*]At the start of the Night, the DT gets a snippet of information from me, not too revealing but giving some info about the previous Day, including wolf and gifted activities. As a way to include dead baddies, perhaps in the event there is a dead wolf, I will give them a choice of 2-3 statements, and they get to choose which one gets revealed.

I really like this - it's nice to give the dead baddies a little control over what info is shared! I think if the Cuties are essentially an information sharing role, we should have a Ranger instead of a Seer, but that's just my two cents. The proposed deadline works great for me, and I'm excited for this game!

[Pitchwife]

Count me in!

Originally Posted by The Moddess

Or: we vote Dead!G55 as the Ghost. Now, G55 has a choice, to either haunt the village during the Day, or at some point that Day to divine the identity of a villager, but not both. I suppose the Ghost would have all Day to make the choice, until they commit to one path.

My first gut reaction is against this, simply because there's nothing more frustrating for wolves than to actually sniff out and kill the Seer only for the mod*dess to pull a backup Seer out of their hat. As long as the divined info is only divulged to the Dead and a subsequent ghost has no way of revealing it unambiguously I suppose that's ok.

[Morsul the Dark]

I’ll do it

[Galadriel55]

And the village grows! Wonderful.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

My first gut reaction is against this, simply because there's nothing more frustrating for wolves than to actually sniff out and kill the Seer only for the mod*dess to pull a backup Seer out of their hat. As long as the divined info is only divulged to the Dead and a subsequent ghost has no way of revealing it unambiguously I suppose that's ok.

I think part of that set up is that there is no Seer in the game; we are working with very small numbers, this may change as people sign up. And from the way I understood Hui's proposal, if the Dead decide to dream instead of haunt, then the info is only revealed to the DT (or even just to the Ghost), and they lose one of their shots at communicating with the GT. It's a very roundabout one-time *dead* Seer.

However, if there are going to be more sign ups and we will have a Seer after all, I think this function would be excessive. In that case, the DT will potentially have information via a real dead Seer. Without a Seer though, it's one of the several proposed ways in which the DT can be useful for the GT. Still up for discussion. I'm in a neutral position on it, and I think the decision will rest largely on numbers and the existence of a Living Seer.

[Morsul the Dark]

I feel the info the DT is already cryptic and then the ghost can only communicate in quotes so not like they can pop in and say “yeah Morsul killed me” so I’m in favor of that idea

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I think part of that set up is that there is no Seer in the game; we are working with very small numbers, this may change as people sign up. And from the way I understood Hui's proposal, if the Dead decide to dream instead of haunt, then the info is only revealed to the DT (or even just to the Ghost), and they lose one of their shots at communicating with the GT. It's a very roundabout one-time *dead* Seer.

That was my idea, but I'd be the first to say it isn't fully developed - more, in the manner of Password musings, a partial concept put in to give other people ideas.

I think the 'Mod infodump + standard Ghost' concept is probably a better one - it lets the mod control what the DeadThread can learn, and keeps them from lucking into being a massive game-changer. Like, if they scan Galadriel55 as the last wolf, the Ghost can just go:

Originally Posted by RotK

The Dead awaken;
for the hour is come for the oathbreakers:
at the Stone of Erech they shall stand again
and hear there a horn in the hills ringing.

Originally Posted by FotR

Up from the dark plain below came the crying of fell voices, and the howling of many wolves.

Originally Posted by FotR

Even as he spoke, they saw, as if she came in answer to their words, the Lady Galadriel approaching.

Which would be a fairly epic way to end the game, but also kind of unfair on the wolves: a Ghost Seer means they can't even fake-reveal to protect themselves!

hS

[Galadriel55]

This is a non-urgent request for all players to make sure you have space in your PM box.

[Morsul the Dark]

Roger Roger Mr Roger Dodger

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

A gentle reminder that Ghost quotes must be full sentences. Do not delete what you have up, Form, but in future please put your communication in full sentence quotes.

Whoops!

I zeroed in on "at least five words" and missed the full sentences bit.

Only saw your post after I'd dug up those last five.

Do you want me to delete/modify that last (post-warning) post?

[Galadriel55]

No, I don't think it's fair to delete anything in WW once some people may have already seen it. And since this is the first time the Ghost role is in play, I think a bit of leniency and real-time adaptation is in order. So these ones get a pass and a warning, but in the future Ghosts should do full sentences only.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

No, I don't think it's fair to delete anything in WW once some people may have already seen it. And since this is the first time the Ghost role is in play, I think a bit of leniency and real-time adaptation is in order. So these ones get a pass and a warning, but in the future Ghosts should do full sentences only.

Full sentences only, commencing now.

[Galadriel55]

If the Seer is lynched, they do not get a dream toNight.

If the Seer is Night-killed, they will still dream that Night, as the dreaming happens before their death at Daybreak.

[Morsul the Dark]

Aaaa I just realized you called him FormerForm in the narration. Happy noises

[Galadriel55]

After getting some feedback - thank you all - the Ghost role will remain as is.
- posting full sentence Tolkien quotes
- no limits to how many posts, or how often
- no limits to how many quotes per post
- do not indicate cross-posting

[Morsul the Dark]

Tried deleting my post dL post in the game thread doesn’t seem to delete but it doesn’t have game altering information

Edit: nevermind I wasn’t clicking the delete message bubble just the button. Weirdly enough a site made in 01 doesn’t play well with phones

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Tried deleting my post dL post in the game thread doesn’t seem to delete but it doesn’t have game altering information

Edit: nevermind I wasn’t clicking the delete message bubble just the button. Weirdly enough a site made in 01 doesn’t play well with phones

If you accidentally cross-post with the DL, that's fine, happens all the time. It's just if you vote, the vote doesn't get counted if it's at the :01 mark.

[Galadriel55]

Soriman, if you are alive toMorrow, remember to vote. Missing a vote 2 Days in a row means you are out of the game - which in the current situation means that whichever side you are on, you will not be able to claim victory of survival if you make it through the Day.