LotR -- Book 2 - Chapter 01 - Many Meetings

[Estelyn Telcontar]

We now begin our discussion of Book 2! Thanks to all those who have stuck with us and contributed so far.

This chapter is the account of one single day, told completely from Frodo’s point of view. It is his first conscious day in Rivendell, the awakening after his near-tragedy and the eucatastrophe which he did not remember experiencing. It begins with the reunion with Gandalf, though Frodo (and we) are not yet told why he failed to meet him earlier. Gandalf’s narrative fills in the empty spaces in the story, but more than that – he praises Frodo’s strength to withstand the influence of evil so far. Interestingly, he calls the experience in the Barrow the most dangerous moment of all. The possible reasons for that will provide us with interesting discussion material! (…in this most dangerous place… ) The dialogue, which consists mostly of Frodo’s questions and Gandalf’s answers, takes up the first pages of the chapter.

Then come more of the meetings of which the chapter title speaks – reunions with Frodo’s friends, and later on, with Bilbo - yes, and with Glorfindel too; and acquaintance with new friends in Rivendell. Elrond is introduced, as is Arwen; Glóin is an old friend to those who have previously read The Hobbit, though known only by hearsay to Frodo; and Lindir is named as one of the many Elves who live at Rivendell. (His comment is one of my favorite lines in this chapter: “To sheep other sheep no doubt appear different, or to shepherds.” ) We get to know Aragorn from his kingly side, and another of his many names is revealed.

Two poems give their special flavour to this chapter: Bilbo’s “Ëarendil was a mariner” and the Elves’ “A Elbereth Gilthoniel”. No translation from the original Sindarin is offered here for the latter (a daring authorial decision, but one that adds to the verisimilitude of the story!), though Bilbo comments that it is a song to Elbereth. However, Tolkien provided one along with explanations when the poem was set to music by Donald Swann in The Road Goes Ever On. Here it is:

O! Elbereth who lit the stars, from glittering crystal slanting falls with light like jewels from heaven on high the glory of the starry host. To lands remote I have looked afar, and now to thee, Fanuilos, bright spirit clothed in ever-white, I here will sing beyond the Sea, beyond the wide and sundering Sea.

How is this chapter significant to you? What information do you find most important, what part of the tale most enjoyable?

[davem]

He found laid ready clean garments of green cloth that fitted him excellently

.

True Thomas lay on Huntlie Bank
A ferlie he spied wi’ his ee
And there he saw a ladye bright
Come riding down by the Eildon tree

Her shirt was o’ the grass-green silk
Her mantle of the velvet fine
At ilka tett of her horse’s mane
Hung fifty siller bells and nine.

True Thomas, he pulled off his cap
And /louted low down to the knee
‘All Hail, thou mighty Queen of Heaven
For thy peer on earth I never did see

‘O no, O no, Thomas’ she said
‘That name does not belong to me
I am but the Queen of fair Elfland
That am hither come to visit thee
..........

He has gotten a coat of the even cloth
And a pair of shoes of velvet green
And till seven years were gone & past
True Thomas on earth was never seen.
(The Ballad of Thomas the Rhymer- traditional Scottish ballad)

Wearing of green is associated with magic, witchcraft, fertility. ‘A green gown is the traditional term for rustic defloration, & overall weariing of green is associated with earth-magic. Thomas the Rhymer is given clothing of green by the Queen of Elfland. The significance within the Tradition is that the wearing of Green signifies unity with the Land.
(RJ Stewart: The UnderWorld Initiation)

One of the few things that most accounts agree upon is that the favourite colour of the fairy folk was green. It is for this reason that some people still think of green as unlucky, since it could only be worn by the people of Faery & to copy them was to court their anger.

‘Virtually all the elfin folk of Britain & Ireland dress in green, a colour, indeed, that is pretty generally characteristic of fairies’ says Professor Wimberley in his Folk Lore & Ballad & goes on to cite a number of Faeriy ballads such as Tam Lin & Thomas the Rhymer (Child Ballads nos 37 & 39)....In the description of the second faery court in Tam Lin we read how:

‘The next court that comes along
Is clad in robes of green
And its the head court of them all
For in it rides the Queen

As to the reason, if any is needed, why the Faerie folk should choose this colour, one may decide whether one sees it as a natural reflection of their closeness & participation in the world of growth & greenness, or whether the association of the colour green with death & witches derives from the faery tradition, or whether it influenced that tradition in turn. (John Matthews, ‘Robin Hood: Green Lord of the Wildwood’)

So, wearing green is symbolic of death, & is the colour of the clothing worn by the inhabitants of the OtherWorld. Frodo has crossed fully into the OtherWorld now. In a sense he did die at the ford, symbolically at least, & entered the magical world of the elves. Bilbo had crossed over into the Otherworld previously & found the Ring, which he took back to the living world with him, but the wrath of the OtherWorld powers pursued him. The Magical object must be returned by Frodo if the fury of the powers is not to lay the Land waste. So, Frodo must pass symbolically into the realm of the dead to return the magical object to its place of origin.

We know we are no longer in ‘our’ world ‘Time doesn’t pass, in Rivendell, it just ‘is’, its difficult to even stay awake - one is constantly drifting into dreams. Frodo has finally passed over the ‘River’, which he had dreamed of doing, but he will never fully be able to pass back. The others will, like Thomas, returning from the OtherWorld with the gift of prophecy (‘The Tongue that Cannot Lie’) but Frodo won’t ever be able to reintegrate fully into this world - why? Perhaps because he became too bound to the ring, the ultimate source of OtherWorldly power & magic. Ironically, the more he integrates himself into the OtherWorld, the more he severs his links with the world of the iving. On their return the others feel like they’re waking up from a long dream, but Frodo feels like he is falling asleep. In the end the living world will become for Frodo what the OtherWorld is for his fellow hobbits - a place of dream, unreal, & he will always feel out of place, yearning for the place he has come to belong in.

[Aiwendil]

After the excitement of the previous two chapters, Book II begins with a needed respite. Like chapter 1 of Book I, there is no real danger in this chapter, and the plot is not very much advanced. What does come across very strongly here is milieu - the feeling of Rivendell (that is, the feeling of Faerie) is perfectly captured. Book I began with a chapter that offered a vivid impression of Hobbiton; the rest of that book amounted to a journey away from the mundane and toward Faerie. As others have noted in previous chapter discussions, each time Frodo crosses a river he moves farther into the "otherworld". Now he has fully arrived, and a chapter offereing a vivid impression of Rivendell completes the journey.

This chapter also contains a rather impressive poem, Bilbo's "Earendil was a Mariner". I never cease to be impressed with the scheme of the poem, rhymes on every second line and assonance between the end of the off-lines and the second foot of the rhyming lines. Tolkien wrote that he was only able to write in this meter once and never again - but the "Earendil" poem is actually a heavy revision of his older poem "Errantry"; so he had sufficient command of its form at least for that. Interestingly, the version found in LotR was not the one that was meant to be. Tolkien had revised the poem further, but apparently could not find that revision at the time of publication and was forced to use this one. The "correct" version can be found in HoMe VII.

[Encaitare]

Ah, True Thomas. A great guy and a great poem.

A very interesting post regarding the significance of the green clothing, davem, and the points you make are quite valid. The green is symbolic of the "Otherworld," as you say, and of how Frodo is being permanently drawn into this world. But I would not exactly also take a view of green being symbolic of life or rebirth. Here he is entering a world of calm and peace amid the dangers outside of Rivendell, and is regaining his health. He is not the same due to his experiences with the Ringwraiths, and he never will be, but he is still on the road to recovery. The color green could offer protection, since, as Gandalf says, Rivendell is safe

at present, until all else is conquered.

Also, the cloaks of Lorien sometimes appear green, offering protection and camoflage.

One of the parts I find most interesting in this chapter is the part when Bilbo asks to see the Ring, especially the following passage:

"Yes, I've got it," answered Frodo, showing a strange reluctance. "It looks just the same as ever it did."

"Well, I should just like to see it for a moment."

When he had dressed, Frodo found that while he slept the Ring had been hung about his neck on a new chain, light but strong. Slwoly he drew it out. Bilbo put out his hand. But Frodo quickly drew back the Ring. To his distress and amazement he found that he was no longer looking at Bilbo; a shadow seemed to have fallen between them, and through it he found himself eyeing a little wrinkled creature with a hungry face and bony groping hands. He felt a desire to strike him.

The music and singing round them seemed to falter and a silence fell. Bilbo looked quickly at Frodo's face and passes his hand across his eyes. "I understand now," he said. "Put it away! I am sorry: sorry you have come in for this burden: sorry about everything. Don't adventures ever have an end? I suppose not. Someone else always has to carry on the story."

Well, at least Bilbo didn't exactly go rabid like he did in the movie! But this does show what a great hold the Ring still has on him, and here we see echoes of Gollum. This is one of the first points at which Frodo actually understands what terrible powers the Ring has, for here he sees it at work on one of the people closest to him.

As a final thought: has anyone else noticed the similarities between the Hall of Fire in this chapter and the Tale-Fire of HoME I?

[davem]

To what extent is Frodo's time in Rivendell similar to Niggle's in the workhouse? Both periods take place in a post 'death' state, & both result in the hero ultimately leaving & going beyond the limits of the physical world (the 'Mountains' or the 'Sea'). Rivendell would work for me in that role - the place of preparation for the task ahead, the creation of Niggle's Parish,or the destruction of the Ring - though of course in a sense the whole of Frodo's journey is his 'workhouse'.

On Aiwendil's point about the Earendel verse in LotR not being the final version (it misses out a verse on the attack by the Sons of Feanor on the Havens of Sirion, among other things) :

(From the start of stanza 4:
In might the Feanorians
That swore the unforgotten oath
Brought war into Arvernien
with burning & with broken troth;
And Elwing from her fastness dim
then cast her in the waters wide
but like a mew was swiftly borne
uplifted o'er the roaring tide.
Through hopeless night she came to him,
And flame was in the darkness lit
(etc)

& just as an aside, in the new anniversary edition of LotR out in October/November, we are told that it will be the edition that JRRT originally envisioned (it will contain the pages for the Book of Mazarbul which Tolkien drew but which weren't included for cost reasons), & CT has supervised it. Now, as CT has pointed out a number of these 'errors' in the published version of LotR, I wonder if we'll see these verses included, & what would the general reaction be to that? This perhaps belongs in the Canonicity thread, as if CT did make such changes, would they be 'canonical' or not? Is even the inclusion of the pictures acceptable, as Tolkien didn't authorise this edition?

Originally Posted by Encaitare

Well, at least Bilbo didn't exactly go rabid like he did in the movie! But this does show what a great hold the Ring still has on him, and here we see echoes of Gollum. This is one of the first points at which Frodo actually understands what terrible powers the Ring has, for here he sees it at work on one of the people closest to him.

I always felt this was Frodo's perception of Bilbo, rather than something that happened to him, & can't help but wonder to what extent he was seeing Bilbo as Sauron would have seen him - seeing Bilbo, the person he loves most in the world as 'a little wrinkled creature with a hungry face and bony groping hands' who he feels a desire to strike.' seems somehow deeply out of character for Frodo - so out of character that its one of the most shocking events in the story for me. this perverted vision, this desire to use violence - after Gandalf has told him he's safe in Rivendell, no evil in Rivendell, eh? We see, perhaps, a glimpse of another Frodo, filled with contempt & violence for others, & perhaps also a glimpse of what the 'Eye' sees when it looks at others.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Aiwendil, I too noticed the similarity of the two poems "Ëarendil was a mariner" and "Errantry", which also has a mariner as its main protagonist. Since I didn't know which one was written first, I wondered if "Errantry" was perhaps his own parody, but your comment answers that question. Thanks! I may come back with a closer look at comparing the two if I have time this week.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Hmmm…I appear to have a slightly different view of this chapter than some. Yes, I see that this chapter is one of the refuges in the refuge-danger cycle of the narrative, but I don’t see it as a pause in the action, nor as a moment in which Frodo makes any grand kind of transition between starkly opposed realms (life/death, mundane/faerie). What I thin is happening here is that Frodo is continuing his journey toward a fuller awareness of the world around him – of both the light and dark.

The chapter is full of moments in which the nature of things is revealed. The brilliance of the chapter is that nothing ‘new’ is really learned (that is for the masterpiece ‘Council of Elrond’ coming next week *pant pant*); instead, we & Frodo learn more about things we are already familiar with.

It is, fittingly, Gandalf who kicks off the chapter’s ambivalent exploration of reality with his mysterious return, and equally mysterious refusal to explain why. We learn from him that:

‘There are many powers in the world, for good or evil. Some are greater than I am.’ … The Morgul-lord and his Black Riders have come forth. War is preparing! … for the Black Riders are the Ringwraiths, the Nine Servants of the Lord of the Rings.’

A lot is happening in this brief passage. First, we learn that the world is full of good and evil that is stronger than Gandalf, so we are treated to equal parts hope and despair, and given a look into the future and the moment at which those forces will meet when Frodo is a the Crack of Doom. We learn that all out war is preparing – something we’ve not heard of until this point – and the identity of the Black Riders. It’s interesting that the Riders do not become any more frightening by the knowledge, but it’s significant that the first thing Frodo learns in the House of Elrond, loremaster, counsel giver, is the identity of the creatures that have been attempting to destroy him, and that their appearance heralds an all-out war! Finally, it’s here in the ‘refuge’ of Rivendel that Frodo first hears the appelation “Lord of the Rings”.

But the light is revealed, as is the dark. Gandalf goes on to explain who Glorfindel is and that because of Elves like him

‘there is a power in Rivendell to withstand the might of Mordor, for a while: and elsewhere other powers still dwell. There is power too, of another kind, in the Shire.’

So it’s not just that Frodo is moving from one world into another, but into a perspective from which he can see the world more clearly, in all of its power for good and evil: Mordor, Imladris, ‘other powers’ (Lorien? The Ents? Eru?) and – most significantly – the Shire is included in this list. Frodo is not moving beyond his realm into others, but learning that his world is as much a hidden power as any in Middle-Earth, so he is growing in apprehension, I think, rather than from one ‘self’ to another.

The rest of the chapter works through a number of such apprehensions as Frodo begins to see the world and the people in it in a whole new way. Aragorn looks like a person transformed at the banquet, thanks to his presence near Arwen, who is herself a revelation of the full reality of M-E, in all it’s glory and sadness: “the likeness of Luthien had come on earth again: and she was called Undómiel, for she was the Evenstar of her people.”

We are then treated to the poem in the Hall of Fire (which I love, and thanks Aiwendil for your perceptive comments), in which the full beauty of the world is revealed fully to Frodo, immediately followed by Bilbo’s ‘transformation’ in which the full ugliness of the world is rather forcefully brought home to him. It’s almost as though poor old Frodo is stuck between two ways of looking at the world, here in Rivendell. On the one hand, is the way he looks at Arwen at the banquet, in which Frodo is almost able to have Elvish eyes onto the beauty, power and majesty of existence – tinged with sadness though it may be, it is wonderful; on the other hand, he is able to ‘see’ the Nine for what they really are, and Bilbo looks like Gollum to him. This is the conflict that will begin to consume him as he travels (hope and despair?).

The chapter ends with a great little bit of foreshadowing though, in which we look ahead to get a hint of how this tension might be resolved for Frodo, finally:

then suddenly it seemed to Frodo that Arwen turned towards him, and the light of her eyes fell on him from afar and pierced his heart.

Even though he will never be able to heal from the Morgul blade that tried to “pierce his heart”, this piercing by Arwen will grant him healing and comfort from that wound – and the others that his journey will give him – in the West.

[Boromir88]

I've always appreciated how the chapters in Book I and Book II follow the same pattern, to the point where they nearly mirror each other.

A Long-Expected Party - Many Meetings

What happens in these chapters is a grand party/feast takes place and the matter of the Ring is pushed off/delayed to a later time. A Long-Expected Party, we aren't told anything about the Ring other than Bilbo's acting most unusual and Gandalf's worried about it.

Many Meetings, Frodo presses Gandalf for answers on why he was delayed and what will be done with the Ring now that he's got it this far to Rivendell. Gandalf keeps refusing to answer, or only giving half-answers and says "we'll talk about that later, for the present all is good." During the feast, Gloin guesses at Frodo's troubles and reasons he's in Rivendell, Frodo doesn't want to talk about it and Gloin doesn't want to discuss why he's in Rivendell, at the present.

It's a chapter, where all the characters keep saying they don't want to discuss anything to do with the Ring or why Elrond's called for a Council, 'at the present'. A Long-Expected Party we weren't aware of the danger of the Ring. In Many Meetings we are and we know the Ring can't stay in Rivendell, but the question of what's going to happen gets put off to a date that's not the present. And then both chapters get followed by some of the longest chapters in the books, with a lot of dialogue and the question "what will happen with the Ring?" is thoroughly discussed,

And here we see another side to Aragorn's character I never really considered before. His bloodline and descent from Numenor is made clear in this chapter. He is one of the 'high and mighty' characters, but soon after this is revealed by Gandalf and Bilbo there he is sitting and helping an old hobbit write songs.

Some other tidbits I picked up on this time through

- Gloin's mention "tolls" charged by Grimbeorn and his folk in keeping the path from Dale to Rivendell safe for travelers. You can get stuck thinking this is a tale of just all good people vs. all evil people, but Grimbeorn's charging 'high tolls' to keep roads safe. I know it's absurd but I'm just picturing Grimbeorn and a band of merry men (think they wore tights?)

-The description (through Frodo's eyes) of his first sight of Elrond, with Glorfindel and Gandalf on his right and left hand side: "revealed as lords of dignity and power"

Gandalf shorter than the other two, but looked "like some wise king of ancient legend"
Glorfindel "voice like music, on his brow sat wisdom, and in his hand was strength."
Elrond "Venerable" "a tried warrior in the fullness of his strength," "mighty among both Elves and Men."