LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 12 - Flight to the Ford

[Estelyn Telcontar]

This is the last chapter in Book 1. Though much of it concerns the injured Frodo and Strider’s efforts to save his life, the other hobbits have their parts to play, and one of the best-loved minor characters (though unknown to movie fans) shows up – Glorfindel. The first tiny clue to Arwen’s existence is given, though few readers will have been aware of it at first reading. There is also a fore-shadowing of the Fell Beasts. The troll “encounter” provides a light-hearted look back at Bilbo’s adventures.

Sam is presumed to be the author of this chapter’s only poem; it gives the others – and us – an additional glimpse of abilities and depths as yet unknown in him.

The suspense with which the chapter ends is wonderfully written! We see a Frodo who still has some strength and resistance against the Ringwraiths, although we are left in uncertainty of his survival at the very end.

What are your impressions upon reading this chapter?

[davem]

Christopher Tolkien makes some interesting observations on an early draft of this chapter:

In this chapter it is made plain that the commands of the Ring-wraiths are communicated worlessly to the bearer of the Ring, & that they have great power over his will. Moreover the idea has now entered that the wound of the Ring-wraith's knife produces, or begins to produce, a similar effect to that brought on by putting on the Ring: the world becomes shadowy & dim to Bingo, & at the end of the chapter he can see the riders plain, beneath the black wrappings that to others cloak their invisibility.

The Return of the Shadow

While he's referring to the early drafts, I think these points are very important. The morgul blade has the same effect on Frodo as the Ring, so it is another means of enslaving & 'wraithing' an individual. Also interesting is the way Frodo is passing into the otherworld, so again we are shown that there is another, underlying 'reality' going on beneath the surface. Its like there are two stories going on, or one story going on in two worlds. Both Glorfindel & the wraiths live in both worlds - yet is it the same supernatural dimension that he & they inhabit? This would appear to bring up all kinds of metaphysical problems & possibilities. Glorfindel manifests plainly to Frodo's eyes the Holy Light of Valinor, the Light of the Trees, which he had known before Morgoth slew them, & he has spent time in the Halls of Mandos, & been purified of his 'sin' in the Rebellion. This quite probably makes him one of the most powerful beings in Middle earth. It also explains why the Nazgul flee from him.

I don't know how uncomfortable some others felt with the episode with the trolls, but to me it felt a little 'forced', as though Tolkien put it in there in order simply to tie the 'New Hobbit' in with the 'Old'. These stone trolls, with bird's nests behind their ears seem too out of place. Still, it got us Sam's song, so I'll be forgiving. It also got us his declaration that he doesn't want to be either a wizard or a warrior, & maybe, just maybe, thats a glimpse of the reason he's able to resist the lure of the Ring - he simply doesn't want anything it could offer him.

Finally, the confrontation with the riders - this shows Tolkien's superiority over the movie scriptwriters, as the culmination of this chapter simply blows away the rather silly version in the movie. Frodo's defiance of the Nazgul, in his near death state, is so moving, so inspiring - though his attempt at commanding them to obey him possibly has darker implications - that what the movie offers us in its place is simply pathetic.

(Oh, I noticed for the first time on this reading that the Nazgul attempt to stop Frodo with the Black Breath:

A breath of deadly cold pierced him like a spear, as with a last spurt, like a flash of white fire, the elf-horse speeding as if on wings, passed right before the face of the foremost rider.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Interesting thoughts, davem, and they prompted another thought - was Frodo the only one who saw Glorfindel shining in the light of Valinor? Was he able to see that because of the influence of the Ring? Could only those who had some connection with the spiritual realm see the light? If so, then there had to be at least some contact between the spiritual realms of light and darkness; apparently the Wraiths saw the light as well. I'm reminded of Biblical accounts of battles between the forces of good and evil, unseen by earthly beings.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

About the light... I think that being able to see it must have something to do with a connection to the other world. Elves must be able to see the light on each other, since they are very close to the "spiritual realm". It must be very unusual for a mortal, like Frodo, to see the light because mortals-men, dwarves, and hobbits, are more concerned with the real world, for lack of a better term.

I think Frodo could see the light because of the effects of the Morgul blade drawing him away to the spirit world.

However, I don't think Wraiths are in one place or another: They have no visible form, but are able to affect the real world. Frodo was being drawn to their halfway world and so could see the light of Valinor because he was partially in the spiritual realm.
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I love this chapter...It starts out rather grim with Frodo being stabbed and everything, but at this point in the book, the lighter tone still has its moments, perhaps the last moments we will see of the more light writing... The whole thing with the trolls is a great example. Though at first the hobbits are frightened by the possibility of real trolls, the scene turns into a lighthearted adventure in which Strider gets a chance to joke around a little and all the hobbits get their last laugh for a while.

I loved this, too:

'Where did you come by that [poem], Sam?' asked Pippin. 'I've never heard those words before.'
Sam muttered something inaudible. 'It's out of his own head, of course,' said Frodo. 'I am learning a lot about Sam Gamgee on this journey. First he was a conspirator, now he's a jester. He'll end up by becoming a wizard--or a warrior!'
'I hope not,' said Sam. 'I don't want to be neither!'

On a first read-through, it looks like Frodo's just carrying on with the light mood of the episode, but, coming back to this after knowing already what happens in the rest of the story, there is a definite element of truth in what Frodo says in what looks like a joking manner. Sam does become something of a warrior, and even has the Orc partols in Mordor thinking he's a fierce Elf with a sword or maybe a battle-axe!
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I agree with davem about the scene at the ford: The book version is much more inspiring and intense. This is the hero-Frodo that doesn't come out so much in the movies. Frodo shows a great inner strength that I don't notice as much in the movie. By the force of his own will, he holds the wraiths off for as long as he can. He resists to the last, fighting so hard against the rising darkness...compared to the movie where he sits like a dummy in front of Arwen on the horse and does absoloutely nothing. I love the movies, but this scene is done much more effectively in the book. The emotions inspired are very different... PJ was going for something else... Tolkien's Frodo inspires the readers and shows just how strong he actually is... The movie shows us how strong Arwen supposedly is. Frodo's battle is much more powerful.

I don't really have an issue with Arwen being there in the movie: If they had kept Glorfindel in, but had kept Frodo weak and just sitting there, I would have had a problem with that, too. I understand that they needed a way to introduce Arwen, so I'm not picking on the fact that it was her: I'm picking on the fact that it isn't Frodo's heroism that we see.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

However, I don't think Wraiths are in one place or another: They have no visible form, but are able to affect the real world.

The Nazgul are product of what I call "Saurons Perfect Necromancy (SPN)".
I like to think of it like this;
The Barrow Wights were essays in the craft, just like the lesser rings were to the Smiths of Eregion.
The Nazgul were perfection in the craft, Like the Tree Elven rings.
Do you see where I am coming from?

Back on topic;
Glorfindel tells Strider to keep the hilt of the Morgul blade, so that Elrond can read the runes from it. To me this seemed very similar to the happenings in the Hobbit concerning Glamdring and Orcrist.

Also, I found that here, the Black riders seem to embed their greatest fears in Frodo. Although, to me, they seemed more threatening when they were an unknown shadow in the shire. At least back in the shire Frodo ran but with not as much fear as he had now. He now knows what they are and where they are from, this seems to leave him even more afraid of the, with obvious reasons.

Fear now filled Frodo's mind. He thought no longer of his sword.

At Weather-top Frodo actually considered fighting, but now he is certain that he cannot match up to them, and with no hope falls into disperse.

I think it is here that the desire for the ring works against Sauron. If it was not so precious to Frodo, his will may have broken there and he would have given up the ring with no second thought. However, his great desire for the ring helps him to hold out ageist them.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Hookbill

Glorfindel tells Strider to keep the hilt of the Morgul blade, so that Elrond can read the runes from it. To me this seemed very similar to the happenings in the Hobbit concerning Glamdring and Orcrist.

Or perhaps the morgul blade had a dual existence, it existed in slightly different forms in both worlds - its 'normal' world form had no writings on the hilt, but its otherworld form did. This opens up a whole new 'dimension' - hidden symbols & messages which can only be seen by those 'walkers between the worlds' like Glorfindel, the wraiths & Frodo. An interesting thing for me is that before treating Frodo's wound with Athelas, Aragorn takes time out to sit down & sing a song over the knife hilt! Why was this important. It reminds me of an old folkbelief (not exactly comparable, I admit), the so-called 'weapon-salve':

In 1631, William Foster published a treatise called Hoplo-Chrisma Spongus; or, A Sponge to Wipe Away the Weapon Salve, wherein he sought to prove that this alleged remedy was magical & unlawful - he might have added, futile & imaginary.

Werenfels says; - 'If the superstitious person be wounded by any chance, he applies the salve, not to the wound, but what is more effectual, to the weapon by which he recieved it.

'Dictionary of Faiths & Folklore', WC Hazlitt (1905)

Athelas is also interesting, as its healing 'power' seems to come as much from Aragorn as from any inherent virtue it may have. (Of course, this is contradicted by a comment made by Tolkien that the healing herb Huan brings to Luthien to cure Beren was also Athelas.)

[Evisse the Blue]

For me, in this chapter Frodo proves himself as a hero for the first time. (of course you can argue there's that Barrow Downs scene when he's cutting off that spidery hand, but that was a desperate gesture, preceeded by many arguments for and against that valiant deed, some not very hero-like...):

I remember reading for the first time and becoming more and more impressed with Frodo, whereas before I was just patiently expectant. What really got to me from the start was his ability to quietly and calmly endure debilitating pains and later on, the fact that he did not ruminate on his very likely to be tragic future, not to mention the tragic outcome of his quest. The chapter is generally from Frodo's point of view, and the only time Frodo allows himself to sink in dark thoughts is when he wonders how they will get on with their journey, seeing as he's unable to walk. I find that really admirable about him. And, of course no less admirable is his final stand at the Ford. I agree with davem that the movie belittles a scene that speaks volumes about Frodo and his desires and courage. It's funny that you used the word 'inspiring' - I was about to comment that the famous line in which Frodo invokes Elbereth and Luthien the Fair sounds like it was 'inspired' to him, by whom I don't know, maybe by the proximity of Rivendell, maybe by Glorfindel.

Glorfindel is another revelation of this chapter, and one of my favourite characters. His presence, especially in the context of these troubled events is comforting and protective. He also represents a reader's first encounter with a really powerful Elf. His powers are hinted at even from the moment of his appearance, as Frodo perceives the 'white light' that engulfs him, and later on, as he is able to ease Frodo's pain and clear his vision, even involuntarily, with a simple touch. Speaking of Glorfindel's appearance on his horse, Asfaloth, here's a line that I love:

Clearer and nearer now the bells jingled,
and clippety-clip came the quick trotting feet

As you notice, it almost rhymes and it has a lighthearted rhythm to go with it, as if to assure that this is indeed no Black Rider who approaches.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

was Frodo the only one who saw Glorfindel shining in the light of Valinor? Was he able to see that because of the influence of the Ring? Could only those who had some connection with the spiritual realm see the light? If so, then there had to be at least some contact between the spiritual realms of light and darkness; apparently the Wraiths saw the light as well. I'm reminded of Biblical accounts of battles between the forces of good and evil, unseen by earthly beings.

....Yup. Pervasive, I think, so much so (to me) that I am surprised it is a matter of question.

Originally Posted by davem

Athelas is also interesting, as its healing 'power' seems to come as much from Aragorn as from any inherent virtue it may have. (Of course, this is contradicted by a comment made by Tolkien that the healing herb Huan brings to Luthien to cure Beren was also Athelas.)

Not a contradiction, davem! Luthien has plenty of innate power too-- plenty more than Aragorn, I think. Can you imagine Aragorn singing to Melkor! eeeeep.

Seems to me that it's not just the herb (an infusion of which is good for headaches) and not just the man(why did he go looking for the athelas if the power all came from him anyway?) -- but a process involving rest, easing of pain, and immersion in truth and what is good. I'm thinking of the Houses of Healing, where Aragorn first infuses the athelas, then uses osanwe to go after the wandering soul. Again, Aragorn didn't start without the Athelas; but just the herb without the man would have only cured the headache, not the Black Breath.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

But the scale of that myth gives it more of a saviour/doomsday quality than a grail quality.

But how different are the two? The winning of the Grail in the legends doesn't deny the Second Coming of Christ - in a sense it 'foreshadows' it. The Second Coming cannot be brought about by man, but man is on a spiritual quest, symbolised by the Quest for the Grail - the two are not mutually exclusive.

[Encaitare]

It is significant that the more one pays attention to Tolkien's statements about the Land, the more 'alive' it seems, the more a conscious participant in events. The very earth of the Old Forest, not just the trees, seemed to move & have a will of its own. It is perhaps the most intensely 'feminine' presence in the story - certainly, it seems to be the most permanently 'present' feminine presence. It has 'moods', which can be so powerful they overwhelm the individuals who move across its face. Its as if Middle earth herself is also aware of her woundedness & is seeking healing, & that healing is symbolised by the two Trees. -- davem

How exactly would you consider the Old Forest to be such a 'feminine' presence? Could you please expand on that? (If it's already been explained in another of these chapter threads, please just let me know!)

[Beren87]

But how different are the two? The winning of the Grail in the legends doesn't deny the Second Coming of Christ - in a sense it 'foreshadows' it. The Second Coming cannot be brought about by man, but man is on a spiritual quest, symbolised by the Quest for the Grail - the two are not mutually exclusive.

I both agree and disagree with you here. The peoples of M-E, in a sense, [just like those in the grail legends] have no control over when such things happen [things being the returning of the Silmaril/second coming], but in grail lore, there was a greater connection to the divine. The ring quest is fundamentally one of destruction, they are fighting against Sauron. The grail quest was simply finding a lost artifact [Yes, I realise this can be argued, it had to be "rescued" in a sense], and the outcome of which had no real bearing on when the second coming *would* come, nor how. The only real plus was for those involved, it was a spiritual cleansing. The ring quest, on the other hand, was an instance of prolonging the world of men. The Simarils would be returned no matter what, but it the Valar would not interfere in M-E, and men could go "extinct" in a fashion. The ring quest parallels the grail quest in that both are activities forshadowing a later "second coming" [both of the trees and Christ]], but the ring quest also a direct connection to whether Men would go on, as there is no undying land for Men. Had the grail not been found, Christ would still come, and the world of men would still be here [although, possibly more wicked?].

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Sorry for breaking the flow of the topic, but such deep lore is not for me. Indeed, my thoughts would seem mundane and mediocre compared to previous posts.

But still . . .

This time, I actually read the chapter, so I have better ideas. (Last week, a friend of mine loaned the Fellowship, so I was not able to read the chapter concerned.)

Anywhen, here goes . . .

Dim Echoes of the Next Journey

There seems to be many parallels between Frodo’s journey to Rivendell and his quest to Mt. Doom. Here are some:

• Meeting Strider at the Prancing Pony = Meeting Faramir in Ithilien.
  These two were unexpected company, and at first were much distrusted, but they gave unexpected aid in Frodo’s journey.
  
  
• The attack on Weathertop = The attack on Cirith Ungol
  These two events gave Frodo wounds that “would never really heal.”
  
  
• The beryl on the Last Bridge = The water found in Morgai
  They were signs that Frodo’s journey is not hopeless, that there are some people (even the Valar, it seems; I remembered from Saucie's post that the water found in the walls of Morgai may have come from Ulmo) that would aid them.
  
  
• The confrontation at the Ford of Bruinen = The test at Mt. Doom
  Frodo failed at the threshold of the journey’s end, yet providence came to his rescue. Or, as Fordim said:
  

  . . . he does not have hope in his own abilty to resist them . . . but he obviously has hope that something will defeat the Nazgul. (Fordim Hedgethistle)

Then there is Sam and Bill.

[Bill] was developing a expected talent for picking out a path, and for sparing its rider as many jolts as possible. (LotR I 12)

Wow. The same can be said of Sam, too, during their journey through Mordor.

Aragorn the Herb of Kings

This is the first time we are introduced to athelas, and, during the course of the tale, it seems to describe something else . . .

[Aragorn: ]These leaves . . . I found . . . in the dark by the scent of its leaves. (ibid)

[Ioreth: ] Why, I have not heard that it had any great virtue . . . (LotR V 8)

[herb-master: ] It is but a doggrel, I fear, garbled in the memory of old wives. (ibid)

Let’s see . . . from the West, undistinguished, but has great virtue. Aragorn, perhaps?

Just a Few Tidbits

~ Revenge of the Barrow-blade

Can swords avenge their comrades? Looks like they can.

The Witch-King broke Frodo’s sword in the Ford of Bruinen. Then Merry's sword struck him at the Pelennor Fields.

First, we have talking swords, then emotional swords. Now avenging swords?

~ Trolls: if you’re quick you’ll see they’re false.

It was a bit of a mind teaser. After Pippin saw the trolls in the clearing, Tolkien started the next paragraph with this sentence:

The sun was now high, and it . . . lit the clearing with bright patches of sunlight. (LotR I 12)

~ Why I am here

Glorfindel was one of the reasons I’m here poring over Middle-earth, instead of . . . gee, I don’t know where I’ll be. My sister kept on talking about a Glorfindel that was on that river, not Arwen as on the movie. That tidbit (plus a little conundrum concerning the location of Rivendell in relation to Mordor and Isengard) piqued me enough that, on the eve of New Year, 2003, I picked the Fellowship up and began reading it.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

How exactly would you consider the Old Forest to be such a 'feminine' presence?

Well, principally in that the earth, unbound, free nature, has always been seen symbolically as 'feminine' - the Earth Mother, but speaking personally Middle earth has always seemed a feminine presence in the story, which is why I've never felt the story to be overwhelmingly 'male' dominated, as the dominant presence to me has always been Middle earth herself'. As to the Old Forest specifically, the dominant 'presence' for me was not Old Man Willow, but the River Woman, spirit of the Withywindle, the centre from which all the queerness comes. After all, Goldberry is the most mysterious & subtly powerful of all the beings we encounter in the OF.

As to Beren87's points - that would take a week's answer or none at all, so I'll have to come back to that later - though the more I think about it the more I wonder whether it wouldn't rather require a whole new thread.