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09-26-2021, 08:59 AM | #1 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Yesterday I was listening to Pella Hisie again, and it just occurred to me that it's Maglor singing, is it not? I think the first time I listened to it the details of the song didn't really register. But what I really want to know is who is the woman that he addresses. Especially since the Quenya and Russian sections seem to have very different meanings when it comes to the crucial lines about her. (FYI, apparently the second section in Russian is a translation by Lora Bocharova! Oh the small world of Russian Tolkien). I have enough Elvish to tell that the Russian is occasionally unfaithful, but then I found a more literal translation that confirmed it. Quenya Lyrics: Pella hisie, penna ma'r o'renyan iltuvima la'r. Erya tenn' ambarone sundar Na'lye - fi'rie, nwalma, na'r. Tular Valar mi' silme fa'nar, Meldanya curuntanen ta'nar. Minya Vard' elerri'le anta; Miruvo're Yavanna quanta. Ulmo - losse earo, yallo Aule ca'ra vanima canta. Nesso - lintesse, Va'no - helmo Tula Melkor ar anta melmo. Erwa na, Feana'ro hin, ; u'ner ma'ra voronda nin. Hlara, melda carmeo aina, laurefinda ve Laurelin: u'-kenuvanyel, tenn' Ambar-metta. Hlara enya me'tima quetta. Pella hisie, pella men, ti'ra ilu'veke'na he'n. Indis. Engwa indeo olos. Na'va manina elya men. Literal translation Beyond the mist, without a home My soul will not find peace. To its cursed roots You are death, torment, fire. Come Valar in shining guises And create my beloved with their enchantment. First, Varda gifts starsheen, Yavanna fills with the nectar of life (Miruvor), Ulmo gives the foam of the sea, from which Aule creates a beautiful form. From Nessa - nimbleness, from Vana - skin. Comes Melkor and gives her a lover. Alone (lonely?) is the son of Feanaro; No one remained loyal to me. Listen, beloved, fruit of sacred art, Golden-haired like Laurelin: I will not see you again until the end of the world. Hark to my last word. From beyond the mist, from beyond the water The all-seeing eye is watching. (All-seeing eye is the Lidless eye in Russian LOTR - is this Sauron?... Or something else?) Woman. Dream of a fevered mind. May your road be blessed. Russian verses I have no home even across the sea, Even in the distance of misty fields. I have no peace, and no heart - You have burned it to the roots. Only the Valar could have created You, beloved, daughter of the earth. Varda gifted you white light, Yavanna filled you with [archaic word for alcohol]. Ulmo gave you a foamy guise, Aule shaped the wonderous form. Nessa released the body from bonds, Melkor made you love another. Alone (lonely?) is the son of Feanaro, None are loyal to him now. Listen, maiden whose hair is gold, Who was made to be my woe: I am immortal, there is no worse fate, I shall not see you until Beyond the mist, beyond the water My steps shall lead as well; After you, whose journey was brief As the smoke that flies on the wind. First of all, I saw a number of times when Russian-Quenya poetry is written with a ton of apostrophes and contractions. ...Why? It looks ugly. I can see the reason behind "Vard' ", because the final vowel gets lost. But, for instance, why "ma'r"? What are all these marks supposed to represent? I feel like English Quenya (lol) doesn't have nearly the same amount. But on to the content... Surely the speaker is Maglor, the lonely son of Feanor! But who is the lady that he is serenading? I cannot recall any canon about Maglor's love life. Interestingly, first major diversion in the lyrics comes on the Melkor line - the person who provided the literal translation pointed out that the Quenya only says that Melkor gives her a "beloved [man]", implying most likely himself - and not another man that she loved instead. So the tragedy is not a love triangle but their love itself, due to their eternal separation. But the last stanza is the meat of it. The Russian really makes it sound like he's talking about a mortal woman - one who is as brief as smoke on the wind. But the Quenya has no support for that, really. It's just a well-wish to someone whose identity remains really vague. I am not sure about the whole Eye reference though. Beyond the water is surely in Valinor, not TA Mordor - so... Manwe watching? Dunno. As an aside... Surely there's a typo in the last stanza, for "water" - should it not be "nen", not "men"?
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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09-26-2021, 09:31 AM | #2 | ||||||
Overshadowed Eagle
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As Dafydd says, the answer is buried in HoME XII: apparently it's a note Tolkien jotted in one of his copies of RotK, saying that "Maedros" was unwedded, as were the twins, one of whom burned with the ships, and Celegorm, because he planned to marry Luthien. He notes that Curufin was married, and his son (Celebrimbor) followed him when his wife did not; then ends with "Others who were wedded were Maelor, Caranthir". And that's literally all we know about Mrs Maglor. (This, and an associated note, are the reason Christopher put Celebrimbor as Curufin's son in the published Silm, so they're weightier than they look canon-wise.) I actually thought it was about Curufin's wife, who Silm-canonically exists, but I can't find the source of that belief. ^_^ Quote:
That Russian version is very different, and doesn't tell the same story at all. How odd. ... errrrr, the Russian transcription I have in my link runs like this: Из-за тумана, из-за воды смотрит всевидящее око. Женщина. Сон больного разума. Да будет благословенным твой путь. Have I managed to get a Google Translated version of the Russian in there somehow? I can't imagine how, but it's possible. Quote:
I also stand by what Dafydd said: it describes her as blonde. Can you imagine Feanor's reaction to his son marrying a Vanya? The Kinslaying at Alqualonde would have nothing on this! EDIT: I've just looked up Maglor (actually Maelor) in NoME, and he only has one reference, but it's a "what?!" moment: Quote:
hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Huinesoron; 09-26-2021 at 09:37 AM. |
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09-26-2021, 10:16 AM | #3 | ||||||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I mean, sure, Curufin the Jerk couldn't have been the only son of Feanor to find a wife. But there is literally no indication in the Sil that the others had any romantic relationships at all in their lives, and I am so unused to the idea. Quote:
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Нет мне дома и за морем, И в далях туманных полей. Нет покоя, как нет и сердца - Ты сожгла его до корней. Только валар создать могли Тебя, любимая, дочь земли. Варда свет подарила белый, Напоила Яванна хмелем. Ульмо дал тебе пенный образ, Ауле вылепил дивный облик. Несса с тела сняла оковы, Мелькор заставил любить другого. Одинок Феанаро сын, Нет преданных ныне ему. Слушай, дева, чьи кудри злато, Ты, что создана мне на беду: Я бессмертен, нет худшей доли - Мне не видеть тебя, доколе За туманы, за гладь воды Не уйдут и мои следы; За тобою, чей путь был краток, Как летящий по ветру дым. With regards to the authorship, I haven't been able to find the origin source, but people on Russian discussion forums seem to agree that Quenya lyrics are by Khatul, Russian lyrics are by Lora Bocharova, and most well-known sung version is by Aire and Saruman (a group that is known for making covers for other people's poetry). Quote:
However, regarding nen/men, all the sites where I've found the lyrics have "men". I feel like it's probably been typed once incorrectly and then copied everywhere without spellcheck. Quote:
I actually wondered if she was perhaps Teleri, killed at the Kinslaying, when still trying to reconcile the fleeting smoke on the wind imagery with the Quenya where she is not mortal. But this is all rubbish. Yes, OMG, how did Maglor not get disowned? Quote:
PS: Does Russian really sound like the Black Speech?
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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09-26-2021, 02:43 PM | #4 | ||||||
Overshadowed Eagle
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Pffft, ignore Dafydd, he's super racist. (He isn't - he's just super Feanorian-ist despite not getting on with his family. He doesn't /like/ them, but he still knows they're better than everyone else.) hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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09-26-2021, 03:38 PM | #5 | ||||
Blossom of Dwimordene
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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09-26-2021, 04:04 PM | #6 | |||
Overshadowed Eagle
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hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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09-26-2021, 05:06 PM | #7 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Golden-stringed as the Laurelin!
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Queta, Enyalie, queta [spanish-sounding something]-es [more of spanish] es es es es Uribo pith nin oril (from Wilwarin, but I'm pretty sure these aren't even from the same line) Shelest tvoih kryl (Russian "rustle of your wings") Screw the Silmaril! (My rational brain catching up to what just came out)
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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