*TTT - The Battle of Helm's Deep* - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Estelyn Telcontar · 12-17-2002, 10:10 AM

How did you like the battle scenes?

Tigerlily Gamgee · 12-18-2002, 05:38 AM

I loved the battle at Helm's Deep. I even liked the Elves there. It worked with the movie script. It almost seemed as though it could've been a battle out of The Silmarillion. The orc contest between Gimli and Legolas did not last as long as in the books, but I am glad that it was in there at all. I am a little sad that Gimli didn't see the caves, though. I thought it was great the way PJ showed the Rohirrim preparing for war... the fact that old men and children were preparing to fight... and Legolas and Aragorn's debate about that. It really helped build more relationships and show the importance of winning the battle.

piosenniel · 12-18-2002, 09:16 AM

Well done! Though not long enough. Would like to see PJ's vision of The Fall of Gondolin.

Rose, the youngest · 12-18-2002, 01:57 PM

I thought Helm's Deep was the most amazing epic battle sequence I have ever seen! I didn't expect to hear so many humorous lines from Gimli. Like when he told Aragorn to throw him onto the paraphet, but warned him not to tell the elf. LoL! I was rolling!

TolkienGurl · 12-18-2002, 03:02 PM

Tigerlily- Remember, there is still an extended DVD to buy within the next year. Do not despair! Hopefully the Caves will be there!

Bêthberry · 12-18-2002, 03:06 PM

But what kind of cinematic battle is it? Like those incredible feudal battle scenes of Akira Kurosawa, truly sublime, or more like that general in Francis Ford Coppola's Apocalypse Now who loves the smell of napalm in the morning because it smells like victory?Bethberry

Massharpoon · 12-18-2002, 04:44 PM

I thought the battle was amazing. I loved the parts with Gimli and Legolas. I just did not like the elves at helms deep. I'll goe see it again and hopefully my opinions will not be so negative.

Pookabunny · 12-18-2002, 05:01 PM

The Battle at Helm's deep. Hmmm.... did I like it? I do not have the linguistic skills to express in words how compelling that battle sequence was. It was the most riveting, gripping, compelling, exhausting thing I've ever seen on the screen. It killed me, but at the same time sucked me in - it was the most incredible thing I've ever seen. I've NEVER in my life cried so much in a 3-hour span of time.

Massharpoon · 12-18-2002, 05:21 PM

I wish I had seen that movie. My tears were for a different reason all together.

Bêthberry · 12-18-2002, 05:23 PM

Pookabunny, that's okay. Clearly the film grabbed you. Have you seen other battle scenes in movies? How does Helm's Deep compare to those?I ask as someone whose husband has watched Midway, Waterloo, The Longest Day, etc etc. countless times. Which means I've watched them with him. Until I discovered the Downs, that is. Bethberry

Túroch · 12-18-2002, 05:41 PM

I agree Massharpoon, my tears were for the loss of what I remebered as the Rohirrim. Two big complaints for helms deep. 1:WHERE IS ROHAN"S ARMY? THey made it look like they had no army and had to defend themselves with babies and old men. Then they brought the elves to "save" the "poor" Rohirrim who obviously can't save themselves. Ohh come on. 2:WHERE'S EOMER. Where is he? He is my favorite character through all the books? HE was supposed to be whoopen *** along with Aragorn, but noooooo they had to shove him out of the picture.

thorondil · 12-18-2002, 06:33 PM

I loved the battle scenes but I echo Turoch's complaints.Rohan's army was made to look insignificant and Eomer and his men should have been fighting at Helm's Deep at the beginning. He should have been released in Meduseld after Gandalf broke Theoden's spell. It was Erkenbrand of the Westfold who comes with Gandalf like the cavalry (I guess they were the cavalry .) I groaned when the brigade of Elvish archers showed up.But the battle scenes were cool and I loved to watch it and will do so again. At least Legolas and Gimli were counting!

Lindolirian · 12-18-2002, 06:55 PM

I agree with Turoch. It was so sad when the little boys are suiting up for battle. But, the battle itself was .... indescribable. I think Legolas should have gotten a box for Gimli, because he could NOT have described as well as it was shown.

AddictedtoRumil · 12-18-2002, 07:28 PM

I liked it but those little boys going into war made a chill run down my spine! They were so cute though! and Haldir's death didn't exactly thrill me.

Gandalf_theGrey · 12-18-2002, 07:37 PM

Bethberry:Personally, to answer the question "what kind of a cinematic battle" was the battle in TTT, to what other film it can be compared, I would need to be silly and say ... * drumroll please * ... FotR! thorondil, lindolirian and AddictedtoRumil:Your posts speak well what I would say.* bows *Gandalf the Grey

Aragorn2002 · 12-18-2002, 07:38 PM

I thought the battle scene was incredible! It was really cool with the ladders. It was a bit different than what I thought of when I read the book, but oh well, it was worth it.
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Toys kinky

Pookabunny · 12-18-2002, 07:41 PM

Ooops! I'll elaborate.I loved the movie. All 3 hours of it. Honestly, the battle was not my favorite part, but because of my deep passion for the books and the movies, I felt it to be the best battle I've ever seen on the big screen. That's not to disrespect so many wonderful and intense war movies (and the battle scenes in them), because there are some movies that I love that have incredible battle scenes. However, my intense love for Lord of the Rings has given me a biased opinion when it comes to judging it's climaxes (when compared to others).Again, that's not to knock other movies.

AddictedtoRumil · 12-18-2002, 07:45 PM

Muchos Gracias Gandalf the Grey (thank you very much)

-Imrahil- · 12-18-2002, 07:51 PM

Definately an amazing battle scene. I was on the edge of my seat. A glorious epic it was and I loved it!

Aragorn2002 · 12-18-2002, 07:53 PM

On the Egde of your seat?!? I was laying on the floor!
________
thai girl Webcam

Beren87 · 12-18-2002, 07:59 PM

WHY?! were there elves of Rivendell at Helm's Deep!!!??!Was that blonde-haired elf supposed to be Glorifindel? Someone was talking and I couldn't catch the name when Aragorn said it,

Tigerlily Gamgee · 12-18-2002, 09:55 PM

Do you mean Haldir???One of the parts that I thought was a little campy was the Olympic torch run to light the bombs. Sometimes slow motion doesn't work so well. Oh well, it made up for it right after with Aragorn yelling at Legolas to "kill him". Very intense acting on his part. I understand why they let Eomer be the one to come and help at the end. The introduction of another character that we only see for two seconds would confuse audiences who haven't read the books even more. I liked the moment when Gandalf arrived with him and the Rohirrim.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-19-2002, 06:17 AM

Where was Eomer? Let me answer your question. Eomer along with his Men and Gandalf SAVED THE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Eomer was made to look like a truly awesome hero. Him and Gandalf at the end were slicing through Orcs like carrots. You cannot try and tell me that wasn't cool.Now I really liked Erkenbrand (I love all the minor characters) however, it was totally necessary and understandable to leave him out, for the reasons already mentioned. Who else, would come and save the day? This, of course, means that Elfhelm and Grimbold are almost certainly not going to be in the films.I agree that Rohan's army was made to look tiny. 300? It can't have been that in the book, was it?Did that boy name himself Haleth son of Hama? Haleth? That's a girl's name buddy, please let me be wrong.That Orc that Legolas tried to bring down was hardcore! Even Boromir dropped to his knees after 2 arrows.Legolas shooting down the ladder. Sweet!And did Aragorn and Gimli look like superheroes or what? 2 against how many? Also glad that Theoden got to lay some smackdown as well. But anyway, I ramble so badly. Helm's Deep, the greatest of all.

Child of the 7th Age · 12-19-2002, 07:04 AM

The battle scenes were strong. And although we know about Ekenbrand in the book, I can accept PJ's little alteration and understand the reasons for it. Also like others, I found the scenes where the young boys suited up to be among the most compelling. Tolkien did clearly indicate that those initially at Helm's Deep were either too young or too old, and PJ has gone with this. The seasoned warriors only show their faces with the reappearance of Eomer.sharon

Bêthberry · 12-19-2002, 11:21 AM

The River-Daughter's Daughter appears, with a good-natured grin in response.Quite so, Gandalf the Grey, an internal comparison has its merits. *curtsies* Yet knowing the depth, breadth and height of other visions can often provide a perspective. Did PJ stand on the shoulders of giants or did he merely share others' footsteps?Bethberry

Aragorn2002 · 12-19-2002, 11:27 AM

The battle scene also had humor in it... Gimli:What's happening? Legolas:Would you like me to describe it for yo or should I get you a box?
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The Cigar Boss

**lindil** · 12-19-2002, 11:38 AM

Togerlily said "One of the parts that I thought was a little campy was the Olympic torch run to light the bombs. "my thoughts exactly/As for the over all scene it was great I agree of course w. Thorondil and co. that the elves were out of place [ literally] but i went with it, luckily I had heard vauge intimations, and AT LEAST ARWEN WAS NOT WITH THEM!!!!!!!!!!What a relief that was!The battle itself was spectacular, now he has to go over the top completly w/ Minas Tirith.Did I miss something or did Aragorn take a ladder after Haldir's death [ I guess that is what you get for being in the wrong time at the wrong place!] was very well done but what was up w/ aragorn taking a ladder and throwing himself into the midst of the Army and then not bothering to show him fight his way out.Maybe I missed it did he take a ladder to go further into the deep?I must say I managed not to let it interefere w/ my enjoying the movie [ much] but PJ's incessant desire to change major characters motives is irksome. And I would much rather have seen the huorns come and leave the battle feild a silent eerie scene at the end. w/ Legolas proclaiming " the trees have eyes"!

***Thenamir*** · 12-19-2002, 11:52 AM

The comparisons between TTT and the work of Kurosawa are apt. I found the protracted battle of Helm's Deep similar in feel and pacing to the final lengthy battle in The Seven Samurai. (If you wish to see another well-crafted battle scene, I heartily recommend it, although it is in Japanese subtitled in English.) Both battles have the same sort of hopeless-odds, no-way-out kind of feel, and get you just as emotionally involved rooting for the good guys. Now obviously PJ has the edge in technological and cinematographic choices -- but that's one reason why Kurosawa is recognized as such a genius -- becuase this movie was made long before the advent of all these CGI shenanigans. Nevertheless, PJ should now be recognized as being in the same category of genius for bringing epic cinema back to life.[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Thenamir ]

Gandalf_theGrey · 12-19-2002, 12:11 PM

Bethberry:Indeed there is another film to compare with PJ's FotR and TTT which affects my emotions similarly in terms of the epic grandeur and sheer overpowering awe of a battle scene made with a cast of thousands.To me, the scene where Pharoah's army follows the Hebrews into the Red Sea in Cecil B. DeMille's classic film production "The Ten Commandments" vintage 1956 evokes an atmosphere similar to that of The Last Alliance of Elves and Men in FotR and The Battle at Helm's Deep in TTT. As well, that exodus scene from "The Ten Commandments" captures the poignant human flavor of the journey of Rohan's refugee residents to the hoped-for safety of the caves.Gandalf with his staff at Helm's Deep as mention is made of the tide turning, Moses? (Or perhaps that is a stretch.)Gandalf the Grey[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]

Birdland · 12-19-2002, 04:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The comparisons between TTT and the work of Kurosawa are apt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thenamir - Our own local reviewer compared Helm's Deep to the battles in Ran. Of course, I always said that Kurosawa would have made a kick-butt version of LoTR!

Ithaeliel · 12-19-2002, 06:45 PM

I was awed by the battle of Helm's Deep. It didn't show too much gore or too little, and though most of it was tragic they did manage to lighten it up with humor. They even had the head count between Legolas and Gimli! I loved it. I especially liked when Aragorn and Gimli ran down the gate-breaking force. All in all I thought it was the greatest battle scene I've ever witnessed. I felt like I was THERE.

Nilaraniel · 12-19-2002, 07:40 PM

I've only read TTT a couple of times, and I know the Elves were not supposed to be at Helm's Deep... So WHY did Haldir have to die? He is by far one of my favorite characters and I was in tears when that guy came up behind him. It's traumatizing enough to see any Elf die, let alone one of my favorites. Is he EVER mentioned as dying in the books? If so I completly missed that part... Correct me if I'm wrong about this! Other than than that I thoroughly enjoyed the movie and am planning on going back tomorrow night, although I will keep my eyes closed for one scene...

Massharpoon · 12-19-2002, 09:02 PM

I saw the movie afain today and I still did not like the battle of Elves Deep. I am not going to ramble on about it but I didn't realize you could just ride your horse through an army of Orcs and they would just fall off a bridge. Sorry.

Elanor · 12-20-2002, 05:08 PM

I thought the battle scenes were well done, but I wasn't gripped by them. My friends who have not read any Tolkien loved them, thought they were brilliant etc, but I found myself getting a bit bored to be honest. I also really missed the scene when Aragorn rides out to see the dawn, and talks to the orcs. "Bring out your skulking king", and then Theoden rides out, the sun rises and the orcs see the huorns that have appeared overnight. Aragorn is truly regal and powerful and the orcs are terrified. What a great scene missed PJ missed out on...

Rosseiliantiel · 12-20-2002, 05:14 PM

The battle at Helm's Deep was absolutely brilliantly done, except for one little thing: Legolas' shield surfing. One orc with a pike...

QuickSlash · 12-20-2002, 07:41 PM

I loved it. My favorite part of the movie, though the ents are a close second. Comments: Helm's Deep didn't look at all like how I'd imagined it. Most of the things the movies have done have, but the design of Helm's Deep was nothing I had expected. As my friend put it, "Legolas surfing down the stairs like an Elven Rambo." I thought it was good, though. They didn't finish the numbers of Legolas and Gimli's orc count. Maybe they will in RotK, but I think that they should've noted it now. I'm against the death of Haldir at Helm's Deep. I'm not against the elves, though, as it made it seem like the elves still cared about the affairs of men.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-21-2002, 05:24 PM

The Orcs were not terrified of Aragorn when he was standing on the wall in the book. The Wild Men were though.

Manwe Sulimo · 12-21-2002, 08:55 PM

That was simply the most awesome (the literal term, not the slang term), compelling, and amazing battle (I hesitate to call it a "scene"; it was, after all, about a half an hour) that I have ever seen....every bit of it was amazing, from the Elves to the Rohirrim boys to that cool ballista....At the very beginning of it, when the Uruk-hai were stamping their spears, I immediately though of Geraldo Riviera saying "Oh, my, it looks as if the Uruk-hai are unable to charge the Deep because...well, because they just chopped their own feet off. More on that in a moment...."Coolest part: all of it. You can't pick just one. How about that horn? Heh? It's like a tuba cubed!

Bêthberry · 12-22-2002, 09:52 AM

Thank you, Thenamir and Birdie for noting my comment on Kurosawa. For me, the battle at Helm's Deep did not compare well because in TTT there were several disjarring moments which, instead of in some way highlighting or extending the ethos of the battle, they detracted from it. I doubt PJ wanted to do a truly epic battle scene.Legolas and Gimli keeping track of their counts was one. Yes, I recognize this kind of behaviour in wartime, but I don't think this particular point of characterization was done in terms of a serious battle. It was silly cavalier derring-do, like Han Solo's quick quip to Luke, "Great! Don't get cocky, kid."Gimli and Aragorn outside the gate joking about tossing a dwarf was another. Again, a discordant intrusion had this been intended to be a tragic battle scene. A cheap laugh.Gandalf the White arriving on his rearing charger with the cavalry. As Birdie put it in a PM to me, "Hi-ho Silverfax"--that's a reference to the old American TV show of the Lone Ranger, for those of you too young to have heard of the show. So, for me, Gandalf the Grey, this arrival of the wizard held no reminders of Cecil B. DeMille's biblical epics. I burst out loud with derisive laughter. Moses I would have much preferred. We each see what we each see.The issue appears to be one of how PJ conceived of the battle. It isn't All Quiet on the Western Front. Or even Saving Private Ryan. Or Gallipoli Or Band of Brothers. It was intended to thrill as a visual spectacle and adventure but not stir us profoundly--give us a little sense of battle, but not too much, so we aren't truly twisted dry of emotion and left drained. These intrusions into a serious tone are part of the popular movie ethos. We're working always with Star Wars even if it occasionally appears that we are being given something different (the visual allusion to Triumph of the Will when Saruman looks out upon his army at Isengard).This is an amusement park ride. Thrilling and well done and vastly fun, but candy for short (or tired) attention spans and not food for thoughtful contemplation. In the end, TTT has little to do with stirring in us profound awareness of Tolkien's issues of good and evil. It is a safe ride and not a perilous journey.Bethberry[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

Dorathain_Flamesword · 12-22-2002, 09:59 AM

PJ did an excellent job with Helm's Deep. I was too, disappointed in the fact that the caves were not shown, but there will be an extended version so, not to worry! I loved it when Gimli said, "I should've picked a better spot!" when the wall was higher than his eyes and it panned through the tall Men, standing straight, almost all the same size, and then you see a gap between to Men and the top of Gimli's helmet. I was cracking up. Very good battle, it wasn't long enough though, and I think the program they used to do Helm's Deep was cool, where they just make two armies and let them just fight each other, its like tiny little guys in your computer.

12-17-2002, 10:10 AM	#1
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,499	*TTT - The Battle of Helm's Deep* How did you like the battle scenes? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

12-18-2002, 05:38 AM	#2
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	I loved the battle at Helm's Deep. I even liked the Elves there. It worked with the movie script. It almost seemed as though it could've been a battle out of <I>The Silmarillion</I>.<BR>The orc contest between Gimli and Legolas did not last as long as in the books, but I am glad that it was in there at all. <BR>I am a little sad that Gimli didn't see the caves, though.<BR>I thought it was great the way PJ showed the Rohirrim preparing for war... the fact that old men and children were preparing to fight... and Legolas and Aragorn's debate about that. It really helped build more relationships and show the importance of winning the battle. __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

12-18-2002, 09:16 AM	#3
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Well done! Though not long enough. <P>Would like to see PJ's vision of The Fall of Gondolin. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

12-18-2002, 01:57 PM	#4
Rose, the youngest Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: here, for now. Posts: 25	I thought Helm's Deep was the most amazing epic battle sequence I have ever seen! I didn't expect to hear so many humorous lines from Gimli. Like when he told Aragorn to throw him onto the paraphet, but warned him not to tell the elf. LoL! I was rolling! __________________ here in the realms of fantacy do i find my only escape from the harsh realities of the real world.

12-18-2002, 03:02 PM	#5
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	Tigerlily- Remember, there is still an extended DVD to buy within the next year. Do not despair! Hopefully the Caves will be there! __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

12-18-2002, 03:06 PM	#6
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,977	But what kind of cinematic battle is it? Like those incredible feudal battle scenes of Akira Kurosawa, truly sublime, or more like that general in Francis Ford Coppola's <I>Apocalypse Now</I> who loves the smell of napalm in the morning because it smells like victory?<P>Bethberry __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

12-18-2002, 04:44 PM	#7
Massharpoon Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 12	I thought the battle was amazing. I loved the parts with Gimli and Legolas. I just did not like the elves at helms deep. I'll goe see it again and hopefully my opinions will not be so negative.

12-18-2002, 05:01 PM	#8
Pookabunny Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The only place that matters! Posts: 181	The Battle at Helm's deep. Hmmm.... did I like it? <BR> I do not have the linguistic skills to express in words how compelling that battle sequence was. It was the most riveting, gripping, compelling, exhausting thing I've ever seen on the screen. It killed me, but at the same time sucked me in - it was the most incredible thing I've ever seen. I've NEVER in my life cried so much in a 3-hour span of time. __________________ "I love you more than I did the week before, I discovered alcohol" - Bare Naked Ladies

12-18-2002, 05:21 PM	#9
Massharpoon Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 12	I wish I had seen that movie. My tears were for a different reason all together.

12-18-2002, 05:23 PM	#10
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,977	Pookabunny, that's okay. Clearly the film grabbed you. Have you seen other battle scenes in movies? How does Helm's Deep compare to those?<P>I ask as someone whose husband has watched Midway, Waterloo, The Longest Day, etc etc. countless times. Which means I've watched them with him. Until I discovered the Downs, that is. <P>Bethberry __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

12-18-2002, 05:41 PM	#11
Túroch Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State University Posts: 102	I agree Massharpoon, my tears were for the loss of what I remebered as the Rohirrim. Two big complaints for helms deep. <P>1:WHERE IS ROHAN"S ARMY? THey made it look like they had no army and had to defend themselves with babies and old men. Then they brought the elves to "save" the "poor" Rohirrim who obviously can't save themselves. Ohh come on. <P>2:WHERE'S EOMER. Where is he? He is my favorite character through all the books? HE was supposed to be whoopen *** along with Aragorn, but noooooo they had to shove him out of the picture. __________________ For the valour of the Edain the Elves shall ever remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which thay had on earth so little. But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness." Ulmo - Lord of waters

12-18-2002, 06:33 PM	#12
thorondil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 53	I loved the battle scenes but I echo Turoch's complaints.<P>Rohan's army was made to look insignificant and Eomer and his men should have been fighting at Helm's Deep at the beginning. He should have been released in Meduseld after Gandalf broke Theoden's spell. It was Erkenbrand of the Westfold who comes with Gandalf like the cavalry (I guess they were the cavalry .) I groaned when the brigade of Elvish archers showed up.<P>But the battle scenes were cool and I loved to watch it and will do so again. At least Legolas and Gimli were counting! __________________ only that Part from which he came

12-18-2002, 06:55 PM	#13
Lindolirian World's Tallest Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Where the view is long Posts: 2,117	I agree with Turoch. It was so sad when the little boys are suiting up for battle. But, the battle itself was .... indescribable. I think Legolas should have gotten a box for Gimli, because he could NOT have described as well as it was shown. __________________ 'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."

12-18-2002, 07:28 PM	#14
AddictedtoRumil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 65	I liked it but those little boys going into war made a chill run down my spine! They were so cute though! and Haldir's death didn't exactly thrill me. __________________ ~AddictedtoRumil~ You better move over Legolas Rumil's here

12-18-2002, 07:37 PM	#15
Gandalf_theGrey Visionary Spirit Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 633	<B>Bethberry:</B><P>Personally, to answer the question "what kind of a cinematic battle" was the battle in TTT, to what other film it can be compared, I would need to be silly and say ... * drumroll please * ... FotR! <P><B>thorondil, lindolirian</B> and <B>AddictedtoRumil:</B><P>Your posts speak well what I would say.<P>* bows *<P>Gandalf the Grey

12-18-2002, 07:38 PM	#16
Aragorn2002 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: US Posts: 91	I thought the battle scene was incredible! It was really cool with the ladders. It was a bit different than what I thought of when I read the book, but oh well, it was worth it. ________ Toys kinky Last edited by Aragorn2002; 04-15-2011 at 03:17 AM.

12-18-2002, 07:41 PM	#17
Pookabunny Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The only place that matters! Posts: 181	Ooops! I'll elaborate.<P>I loved the movie. All 3 hours of it. Honestly, the battle was not my favorite part, but because of my deep passion for the books and the movies, I felt it to be the best battle I've ever seen on the big screen. That's not to disrespect so many wonderful and intense war movies (and the battle scenes in them), because there are some movies that I love that have incredible battle scenes. However, my intense love for Lord of the Rings has given me a biased opinion when it comes to judging it's climaxes (when compared to others).<P>Again, that's not to knock other movies. __________________ "I love you more than I did the week before, I discovered alcohol" - Bare Naked Ladies

12-18-2002, 07:45 PM	#18
AddictedtoRumil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 65	Muchos Gracias Gandalf the Grey<BR>(thank you very much) __________________ ~AddictedtoRumil~ You better move over Legolas Rumil's here

12-18-2002, 07:51 PM	#19
-Imrahil- Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dol Amroth, upon the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 259	Definately an amazing battle scene. I was on the edge of my seat. A glorious epic it was and I loved it! __________________ My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!

12-18-2002, 07:53 PM	#20
Aragorn2002 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: US Posts: 91	On the Egde of your seat?!? I was laying on the floor! ________ thai girl Webcam Last edited by Aragorn2002; 04-15-2011 at 03:18 AM.

12-18-2002, 07:59 PM	#21
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,241	WHY?! were there elves of Rivendell at Helm's Deep!!!??!<P>Was that blonde-haired elf supposed to be Glorifindel? Someone was talking and I couldn't catch the name when Aragorn said it,

12-18-2002, 09:55 PM	#22
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	Do you mean Haldir???<P>One of the parts that I thought was a little campy was the Olympic torch run to light the bombs. Sometimes slow motion doesn't work so well. Oh well, it made up for it right after with Aragorn yelling at Legolas to "kill him". Very intense acting on his part.<BR>I understand why they let Eomer be the one to come and help at the end. The introduction of another character that we only see for two seconds would confuse audiences who haven't read the books even more. I liked the moment when Gandalf arrived with him and the Rohirrim. __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

12-19-2002, 06:17 AM	#23
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Where was Eomer? Let me answer your question. Eomer along with his Men and Gandalf SAVED THE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>Eomer was made to look like a truly awesome hero. Him and Gandalf at the end were slicing through Orcs like carrots. You cannot try and tell me that wasn't cool.<P>Now I really liked Erkenbrand (I love all the minor characters) however, it was totally necessary and understandable to leave him out, for the reasons already mentioned. Who else, would come and save the day? This, of course, means that Elfhelm and Grimbold are almost certainly not going to be in the films.<P>I agree that Rohan's army was made to look tiny. 300? It can't have been that in the book, was it?<P>Did that boy name himself Haleth son of Hama? Haleth? That's a girl's name buddy, please let me be wrong.<P>That Orc that Legolas tried to bring down was hardcore! Even Boromir dropped to his knees after 2 arrows.<P>Legolas shooting down the ladder. Sweet!<P>And did Aragorn and Gimli look like superheroes or what? 2 against how many? <P>Also glad that Theoden got to lay some smackdown as well. But anyway, I ramble so badly. Helm's Deep, the greatest of all. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-19-2002, 07:04 AM	#24
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	The battle scenes were strong. And although we know about Ekenbrand in the book, I can accept PJ's little alteration and understand the reasons for it. Also like others, I found the scenes where the young boys suited up to be among the most compelling. Tolkien did clearly indicate that those initially at Helm's Deep were either too young or too old, and PJ has gone with this. The seasoned warriors only show their faces with the reappearance of Eomer.<P>sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

12-19-2002, 11:21 AM	#25
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,977	The River-Daughter's Daughter appears, with a good-natured grin in response.<P>Quite so, <B>Gandalf the Grey</B>, an internal comparison has its merits. curtsies Yet knowing the depth, breadth and height of other visions can often provide a perspective. Did PJ stand on the shoulders of giants or did he merely share others' footsteps?<P>Bethberry __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

12-19-2002, 11:27 AM	#26
Aragorn2002 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: US Posts: 91	The battle scene also had humor in it...<BR>Gimli:What's happening?<BR>Legolas:Would you like me to describe it for yo or should I get you a box? ________ The Cigar Boss Last edited by Aragorn2002; 04-15-2011 at 03:18 AM.

12-19-2002, 11:38 AM	#27
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Togerlily said "One of the parts that I thought was a little campy was the Olympic torch run to light the bombs. "<P>my thoughts exactly/<P>As for the over all scene it was great I agree of course w. Thorondil and co. that the elves were out of place [ literally] but i went with it, luckily I had heard vauge intimations, and AT LEAST ARWEN WAS NOT WITH THEM!!!!!!!!!!<P>What a relief that was!<P>The battle itself was spectacular, now he has to go over the top completly w/ Minas Tirith.<P>Did I miss something or did Aragorn take a ladder after Haldir's death [ I guess that is what you get for being in the wrong time at the wrong place!] was very well done but what was up w/ aragorn taking a ladder and throwing himself into the midst of the Army and then not bothering to show him fight his way out.<P>Maybe I missed it did he take a ladder to go further into the deep?<P>I must say I managed not to let it interefere w/ my enjoying the movie [ much] but PJ's incessant desire to change major characters motives is irksome. <P>And I would much rather have seen the huorns come and leave the battle feild a silent eerie scene at the end. w/ Legolas proclaiming " the trees have eyes"! __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

12-19-2002, 11:52 AM	#28
*Thenamir* Spectre of Capitalism Join Date: May 2001 Location: Battling evil bureaucrats at Zeta Aquilae Posts: 985	The comparisons between TTT and the work of Kurosawa are apt. I found the protracted battle of Helm's Deep similar in feel and pacing to the final lengthy battle in <I>The Seven Samurai</I>. (If you wish to see another well-crafted battle scene, I heartily recommend it, although it is in Japanese subtitled in English.) Both battles have the same sort of hopeless-odds, no-way-out kind of feel, and get you just as emotionally involved rooting for the good guys. <P>Now obviously PJ has the edge in technological and cinematographic choices -- but that's one reason why Kurosawa is recognized as such a genius -- becuase this movie was made long before the advent of all these CGI shenanigans. Nevertheless, PJ should now be recognized as being in the same category of genius for bringing epic cinema back to life.<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Thenamir ] __________________ The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. ~~ Marcus Aurelius

12-19-2002, 12:11 PM	#29
Gandalf_theGrey Visionary Spirit Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 633	<B>Bethberry:</B><P>Indeed there is another film to compare with PJ's FotR and TTT which affects my emotions similarly in terms of the epic grandeur and sheer overpowering awe of a battle scene made with a cast of thousands.<P>To me, the scene where Pharoah's army follows the Hebrews into the Red Sea in Cecil B. DeMille's classic film production "The Ten Commandments" vintage 1956 evokes an atmosphere similar to that of The Last Alliance of Elves and Men in FotR and The Battle at Helm's Deep in TTT. <P>As well, that exodus scene from "The Ten Commandments" captures the poignant human flavor of the journey of Rohan's refugee residents to the hoped-for safety of the caves.<P>Gandalf with his staff at Helm's Deep as mention is made of the tide turning, Moses? (Or perhaps that is a stretch.)<P>Gandalf the Grey<p>[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]

12-19-2002, 04:34 PM	#30
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The comparisons between TTT and the work of Kurosawa are apt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thenamir - Our own local reviewer compared Helm's Deep to the battles in <I>Ran</I>. Of course, I always said that Kurosawa would have made a kick-butt version of LoTR!

12-19-2002, 06:45 PM	#31
Ithaeliel Cornus Caliga Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Five-hundred-twenty-five thousand, six hundred minutes from here Posts: 710	I was awed by the battle of Helm's Deep. It didn't show too much gore or too little, and though most of it was tragic they did manage to lighten it up with humor. They even had the head count between Legolas and Gimli! I loved it. I especially liked when Aragorn and Gimli ran down the gate-breaking force. All in all I thought it was the greatest battle scene I've ever witnessed. I felt like I was THERE. __________________ That best portion of a good man's life, His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. .................William Wordsworth

12-19-2002, 07:40 PM	#32
Nilaraniel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 30	I've only read TTT a couple of times, and I know the Elves were not supposed to be at Helm's Deep... So WHY did Haldir have to die? He is by far one of my favorite characters and I was in tears when that guy came up behind him. It's traumatizing enough to see any Elf die, let alone one of my favorites. Is he EVER mentioned as dying in the books? If so I completly missed that part... Correct me if I'm wrong about this!<BR>Other than than that I thoroughly enjoyed the movie and am planning on going back tomorrow night, although I will keep my eyes closed for one scene... __________________ AIM: nilaraniel

12-19-2002, 09:02 PM	#33
Massharpoon Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 12	I saw the movie afain today and I still did not like the battle of Elves Deep. I am not going to ramble on about it but I didn't realize you could just ride your horse through an army of Orcs and they would just fall off a bridge. Sorry.

12-20-2002, 05:08 PM	#34
Elanor Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: my own corner of the Shire Posts: 316	I thought the battle scenes were well done, but I wasn't gripped by them. My friends who have not read any Tolkien loved them, thought they were brilliant etc, but I found myself getting a bit bored to be honest. I also really missed the scene when Aragorn rides out to see the dawn, and talks to the orcs. "Bring out your skulking king", and then Theoden rides out, the sun rises and the orcs see the huorns that have appeared overnight. Aragorn is truly regal and powerful and the orcs are terrified. What a great scene missed PJ missed out on... __________________ "When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Henny Youngman (1906 - )

12-20-2002, 05:14 PM	#35
Rosseiliantiel Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hopelessly lost Posts: 174	The battle at Helm's Deep was absolutely brilliantly done, except for one little thing: <BR>Legolas' shield surfing. One orc with a pike... __________________ Whatever floats your oyster.