Broken Lines and Blades - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elianna · 11-02-2004, 06:30 PM

In RotK, when Aragorn is debating with the King of the Dead, they cross swords, Aragorn blocking with Andúril. The King of the Dead exclaims "That line was broken." Aragorn: "It has been remade."

The first several times I watched the movie I thought the King of the Dead said "That blade was broken." It wasn't until I read the subtitles that I learnt it was 'line.' (And not until I saw it at councilofelrond that I believed it.)

The line being remade doesn't make sense. Aren't they speaking of a geneological line? And don't those stay broken when broken? That the King of the Dead thought the royal line of Gondor was broken is understandable, but won't a better come back to that be "No it wasn't."

This is way my mind heard 'blade.' He's blocking with Andúril, which is his proof that he is Isildur's heir, which had been broken, and which had been remade.

If it's not a geneological line they're talking about, then what? If it is a geneological line, why does that make sense?

Sapphire_Flame · 11-03-2004, 09:18 AM

Perhaps he meant "line" as in the family line of Isildur. Only the heir of Isildur could wield Narsil, and it could very well have been the belief that the line of Isildur died with him and his sons at the Gladden Fields.

But, of course, we know better. ^_~

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 11-03-2004, 10:50 AM

I noticed that too and I think it's a bit weird line that Aragorn has (ehh...no pun intended

).

Quote:

"No it wasn't."

Lol! I can imagine that. Aragorn is peeved about the doubt of the King of the Dead and with a frustrated tone and a pout he replies: "No it wasn't!"

But seriously, I wonder if there's going to be something between those lines in the EE. I can't imagine, what it could be, though.

**The Saucepan Man** · 11-03-2004, 11:26 AM

Surely it's simply a play on the connection between the Sword that was Broken being remade and the line of the Kings that was broken being renewed. Narsil reforged as Anduril is a symbol (the symbol in the films) of Aragorn's right to the throne. Hence Elrond's words to him at Dunharrow.

Elianna · 11-03-2004, 02:19 PM

Ahh, good point SpM, renewed. That makes so such more sense.

But then why not use renewed instead of remade? Renewed blades and lines make sense, but not remade blades and lines.

Nimrodel_9 · 11-06-2004, 06:18 PM

I always thought it was the blade was broken. Must look into that.

Quote:

Aren't they speaking of a geneological line? And don't those stay broken when broken?

Perhaps what he means when he says the line was broken, is that Aragorn was to believed to be dead, thus breaking the line of kings. Hmm...

Sapphire_Flame · 11-08-2004, 09:36 AM

They may have thought it was broken with the death of Isildur. After all, how could they have known that Isildur's youngest son escaped to Rivendell? And seeing Aragorn, with Teh Sword, would be an eye opener and no mistake!

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

Nimrodel_9 · 11-08-2004, 05:32 PM

Why didn`t Valandil (Isildur`s youngest son) or anyone after him ever go reclaim the throne of Gondor?
Nimrodel

Elianna · 11-08-2004, 09:21 PM

Nimrodel_9: I think it was because they had Arnor to rule at the time.

Elladan and Elrohir · 11-08-2004, 10:53 PM

That, and Meneldur son of Anarion was ruling Gondor.

Incidentally, after the death of King Ondoher and his two sons and heirs, King Arvedui of Arthedain did come and claim the crown of Gondor, both by basis of his being the only direct descendant of Elendil from either line, and by his marriage to Firiel daughter of Ondoher, thus making him both the Heir of Isildur and the Heir of Anarion. The Council of Gondor disagreed, and awarded the crown to a victorious general, Earnil. And Earnil's son Earnur was the last King to reign before the Return of the King and the Reuniting of the Two Kingdoms. But enough of the history lesson.

Tuor of Gondolin · 11-11-2004, 01:21 PM

"how could they have known that Isildur's youngest son escaped to Rivendell?"
---------------
A bit of a correction. It was Ohtar and his companion who escaped with the
shards of Narsil. Valandil remained at Imladris during the war, since he was
just an infant when Gil-galad and Elendil set out from Imladris.

11-02-2004, 06:30 PM	#1
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Broken Lines and Blades In RotK, when Aragorn is debating with the King of the Dead, they cross swords, Aragorn blocking with Andúril. The King of the Dead exclaims "That line was broken." Aragorn: "It has been remade." The first several times I watched the movie I thought the King of the Dead said "That blade was broken." It wasn't until I read the subtitles that I learnt it was 'line.' (And not until I saw it at councilofelrond that I believed it.) The line being remade doesn't make sense. Aren't they speaking of a geneological line? And don't those stay broken when broken? That the King of the Dead thought the royal line of Gondor was broken is understandable, but won't a better come back to that be "No it wasn't." This is way my mind heard 'blade.' He's blocking with Andúril, which is his proof that he is Isildur's heir, which had been broken, and which had been remade. If it's not a geneological line they're talking about, then what? If it is a geneological line, why does that make sense? __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

11-03-2004, 09:18 AM	#2
Sapphire_Flame Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The World That Never Was Posts: 1,312	Perhaps he meant "line" as in the family line of Isildur. Only the heir of Isildur could wield Narsil, and it could very well have been the belief that the line of Isildur died with him and his sons at the Gladden Fields. But, of course, we know better. ^_~ Abedithon le, ~ Saphy ~ __________________ The Hitchhiking Ghost

11-03-2004, 11:26 AM	#4
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,468	Surely it's simply a play on the connection between the Sword that was Broken being remade and the line of the Kings that was broken being renewed. Narsil reforged as Anduril is a symbol (the symbol in the films) of Aragorn's right to the throne. Hence Elrond's words to him at Dunharrow. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

11-03-2004, 02:19 PM	#5
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Ahh, good point SpM, renewed. That makes so such more sense. But then why not use renewed instead of remade? Renewed blades and lines make sense, but not remade blades and lines. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

11-08-2004, 09:36 AM	#7
Sapphire_Flame Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The World That Never Was Posts: 1,312	They may have thought it was broken with the death of Isildur. After all, how could they have known that Isildur's youngest son escaped to Rivendell? And seeing Aragorn, with Teh Sword, would be an eye opener and no mistake! Abedithon le, ~ Saphy ~ __________________ The Hitchhiking Ghost

11-08-2004, 05:32 PM	#8
Nimrodel_9 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Utah Posts: 786	Just wondering Why didn`t Valandil (Isildur`s youngest son) or anyone after him ever go reclaim the throne of Gondor? Nimrodel __________________ .:A friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart:. Last edited by Nimrodel_9; 11-08-2004 at 05:51 PM.

11-08-2004, 09:21 PM	#9
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Nimrodel_9: I think it was because they had Arnor to rule at the time. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

11-08-2004, 10:53 PM	#10
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	That, and Meneldur son of Anarion was ruling Gondor. Incidentally, after the death of King Ondoher and his two sons and heirs, King Arvedui of Arthedain did come and claim the crown of Gondor, both by basis of his being the only direct descendant of Elendil from either line, and by his marriage to Firiel daughter of Ondoher, thus making him both the Heir of Isildur and the Heir of Anarion. The Council of Gondor disagreed, and awarded the crown to a victorious general, Earnil. And Earnil's son Earnur was the last King to reign before the Return of the King and the Reuniting of the Two Kingdoms. But enough of the history lesson. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

11-11-2004, 01:21 PM	#11
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	"how could they have known that Isildur's youngest son escaped to Rivendell?" --------------- A bit of a correction. It was Ohtar and his companion who escaped with the shards of Narsil. Valandil remained at Imladris during the war, since he was just an infant when Gil-galad and Elendil set out from Imladris. __________________ Aure Entuluva!