First Age Trivia

[Alcarillo]

Correct. Your turn.

[empress_han]

Thanks.
What was disguised as 'The Dry River'?

[Alcarillo]

That was the path to Gondolin's gates, if I remember correctly.

[Alcarillo]

Because it's been 6 3/4 hours since I posted my answer and I haven't gotten a response yet and because I'm going to bed soon, this is my question if I am right on my last answer . I'm continuing this little Gondolin theme with:

The guards of which gate of Gondolin had:

faces masked with vizors that bore each an eagle's beak.

?

[empress_han]

Originally Posted by Alcarillo

That was the path to Gondolin's gates, if I remember correctly.

Yep, well done, I was asleep

[Alcarillo]

Here is my question, which I previously stated above:

Originally Posted by Alcarillo

The guards of which gate of Gondolin had:

?

[mormegil]

Is the the forth gate and the of iron

[Alcarillo]

Yep. Your turn.

[mormegil]

Where is spyhill and what event occured there?

[Alcarillo]

Spyhill, Amon Ethir, was raised a league east of Nargothrond. It was here that Glaurung hypnotized/mesmerized/enchanted/ Nienor, erasing her memory.

[mormegil]

Correct. Carry on.

[Alcarillo]

Who and how did Sauron trick into betraying Barahir?

[Celebriel Esgaledhel]

Gorlim Angrimson, one of Barahir`s twelve men in Dorthonion. Orcs came and slew them them all, save Beren, who was out spying. The cut off Barahir's ring hand, as proof of their success.

[Alcarillo]

Yes, it was Gorlim who betrayed Barahir, but maybe I wasn't clear enough in my question when it concerns the how. Let me rephrase it: How did Sauron trick Gorlim into betraying Barahir? You have the following events down fine, but I wanted the events that caused it. You're halfway there, Celebriel.

[mormegil]

He pretented to be Gorlim's wife and told him that if he were to betray Barahir he would be taken to her. Which happened by killing him.

[Alcarillo]

Yep. Your turn.

[mormegil]

Beren saw Luthien and she fled then he saw her again. I want to know in which season the visit came. (2 answers) (seasons-summer, fall, winter, spring)

[Celebriel Esgaledhel]

It was in summer-time when he stumbled into Doriath, bent as if old and weary, and came upon the dancing Luthien. He saw her in autumn and in winter, then finally in the winter, when she released the bonds of winter, he cried 'Tinuviel' and came to her, and she loved him.

[mormegil]

Correct and by releasing the bonds of winter it became spring.

[Celebriel Esgaledhel]

Discuss the language of the Ainur and Valar - what is it called, and why/how is it used? What other means of communication do these celestial beings possess? What does this language have in common with the other languages of ME, and what are the differences?

[Celebriel Esgaledhel]

anyone?

[Gil-Galad]

That is about 5 questions in one...don't expect immediate results

[mormegil]

Well I will start this by answering one part and work on the others. I believe they are able to communicate without words. Meaning with their thoughts they can hold council, just as they did after the darkening of Valinor when Feanor felt they were doing nothing.

I know it doesn't answer all, but again it's at least a start.

[Celebriel Esgaledhel]

And a correct start, it is. ANd it's not five questions; rather, just one with a complete answer.

[Alcarillo]

It's called Valarin, and I suppose it was used to communicate. What else could it be for? Valarin also seems to have influenced other languages in Arda, as Ardalambion points out:

Nonetheless, Quenya borrowed some words from Valarin, though they often had to be much changed to fit the restrictive phonology of High-Elven. From the Silmarillion we remember the Ezellohar, the Green Mound, and Máhanaxar, the Ring of Doom. These are foreign words in Quenya, adopted and adapted from Valarin Ezellôchâr and Mâchananaškad. The names of the Valar Manwë, Aulë, Tulkas, Oromë and Ulmo were borrowed from Valarin Mânawenûz, A3ûlêz, Tulukastâz, Arômêz and Ulubôz (or Ullubôz). So is the name of the Maia Ossë (Ošošai, Oššai). The names Eönwë and possibly Nessa also seem to be adopted from Valarin, though the original forms of the names are not recorded.

Sometimes a Quenya word derived from Valarin does not mean exactly the same as the original word. Quenya axan "law, rule, commandment" is derived from the Valarin verb akašân, supposedly meaning "He says" - "he" being none other than Eru Himself. The Vanyar, who were in closer contact with the Valar than the Noldor, also adopted more words from their tongue, like ulban "blue" (original Valarin form not given). But the Valar themselves encouraged the Elves to translate Valarin words into their own fair tongue rather than adopt and adapt the original Valarin forms. And so they often did: The names Eru "the One = God", Varda "the Sublime", Melkor "He who arises in Might" and several others are one hundred percent Elvish, but also translations of the Valarin names. See WJ:402-403 for a full list of such translated words and names.

By mysterious routes, Valarin also influenced other tongues than Quenya. It is interesting to note that the Valarin word iniðil "lily, or other large single flower" appears in Adûnaic (Númenórean) as inzil "flower" (as in Inziladûn "Flower of the West", UT:227). How could a Valarin word get into Adûnaic? Via Elves, possibly even Vanyar, visiting Númenor? Via Khuzdul, if Aulë put this word into the tongue he devised for the Dwarves? There is little doubt that the speech of the ancestors of the Edain was heavily influenced by Dwarvish. There is no record of any Vala ever visiting the Númenóreans and speaking to them directly, and even if one did, he would certainly use a language they could understand, not Valarin.

Anthony Appleyard has pointed out that one word in Sauron's Black Speech, nazg "ring", seems to be borrowed from Valarin naškad (or anaškad? The word is isolated from Mâchananaškad "Ring of Doom", so we cannot be sure of its exact form). As a Maia, Sauron would know Valarin.

So there are some similarities between Valarin and the languages of Middle-earth, in that Valarin influenced some vocabulary. As for the differences, it uses some phonemes not used in other languages, which include a gh sound, and a distinction between aspirated and unaspirated sounds. Sh is also present. Sure, some Middle-earth languages have these sounds, but it just sounds very different to me. Also, Valarin words are commonly sesquipedalian, up to 19 letters.

I hope that answers some of your question(s).

[Celebriel Esgaledhel]

Go ahead

[Alcarillo]

Okay, name all who should be included in the dots between Beor the Old and Bregor on the geneology of the House of Beor in the back of the Silmarillion.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Bëor the Old
|
Baran
|
Boron
|
Boromir
|
Bregor

[Alcarillo]

Yep. Your turn.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Who made the Hithaeglir, and why was it raised?

[Alcarillo]

Melkor made the Hithaeglir to hinder Orome as he rode through Middle-earth.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Sorry for being nitpicky, but I'm just like that.

Oromë and . . .

[Alcarillo]

Oromë . . . and the elves?

[mormegil]

I can't think of it right now but I believe he wants Orome's horse's name

[Alcarillo]

Oromë and Nahar?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Correct. You may proceed.

[Alcarillo]

Who was buried in the Tûr Haretha, and what is another name for this tomb?

[Dimturiel]

Lady Haleth was buried in the Tur Haretha, wich is also named Haudh-en-Arwen.

[Alcarillo]

Correct, Dimturiel. Your turn.

[Dimturiel]

What was the name of the elf-maiden of Doriath who had been Turin's friend?