ROTK influenced by Mulan? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Arwen Melian · 12-20-2003, 08:29 PM

I know it sounds crazy, but was it a coincidence, or was the movie really influenced by the Disney movie Mulan?-Eowyn dressed as a man- Well that is merely a coincidence because the books came out before Mulan.-The lighting of the beacons- It sounds like the scene on the Great Wall with the huns, and soldiers lighting the beacons to alert China of there presence.-Lastly, the hobbits bowing to Aragorn, the he in turn bowing to them.Then the crowd bows. This is reminiscent of Mulan bowing to the emporor, and then he along with the citicens of the Imperial city bow her in return. Stange. And yes I am a book fan. Although I was slightly dissapointed with the scenes they left, out I foragve PJ this time. I can't think of any movie that made me cry as much as this.I will right more when I have time. Namarie.

Iris Alantiel · 12-20-2003, 08:56 PM

I can't remember if Tolkien actually mentioned the lighting of the beacons in his writing, but historically, that's how people would call for help or signal danger in the days before we had telephones and radios and such. Those who spotted the danger would start a fire, and the next watchtower would see it and start a fire, and so on and so forth until the people at the end of the line saw the last fire and learned of the danger. Chances are LotR and Mulan both took this idea out of history, rather than LotR stealing it from Mulan.As for the scene where Aragorn and the crowd bows to the hobbits, I think it was probably the easiest way to show that Aragorn, although he is the king and powerful and mighty, recognizes, honours, and values the contributions the hobbits have made to the defeat of Sauron. But I guess they could have taken inspiration for the idea from the comparable scene in Mulan.

Imladris · 12-20-2003, 09:06 PM

Also Mulan is an ancient Chinese legend. Though Tolkien was more of the Norse type of guy, I'm sure he could have read the legend....*shrugs* Unlikely. Also from my limited experience, it seems that myths repeat themselves (though with variations) in each culture. Think of all of the Cinderella myths, for example. So maybe there was a woman who dressed like a man in Norse history. Just a thought.Iris probably has the right idea, though.

***Sharkû*** · 12-21-2003, 06:16 AM

I can easily counter that with my theory that RotK was influenced by Snow-white.Firstly, Snow-white perfectly fits the 'ideal of beauty' which we can also find in Arwen and Lúthien - dark hair, fair skin and eyes. Both Arwen and Snow-white eventually ascend to royalty.Secondly, we have to consider that the original number of Fellowship members was seven (cf. HoME VI & VII). It's obvious Tolkien only added two so that the Snow-white influences were less apparent.Thirdly, and most importantly, BOTH main characters get put into a deathlike paralysis by an evil poison and are later presumed dead. Both get rescued by their true companion/love. I'll ride down some more points later.

Luthien_ Tinuviel · 12-21-2003, 01:03 PM

Well, considering the fact that in the book Aragorn places Frodo and Sam on his throne, much to their astonishment, and the people honor them, not to mention the fact that there was no throne just sitting around in the movie, so the most effective way is just to have everyone bow, I would say no, there were no probable Mulan influences.

Finwe · 12-21-2003, 01:12 PM

It is most likely just a coincidence. I don't think that Mulan could have influenced the movie. If I'm wrong, just let me know, and I'll be ready to have a dunce cap fitted!

doug*platypus · 12-21-2003, 04:25 PM

You have to be kidding me. Everyone knows that both JRRT and PJ took all their inspiration from the Star Wars 5-logy! Mûmakil are basically AT-ATs with tails, Gandalf is Obi-Wan minus the lightsaber, although he does steal a Jar-Jar Binks line: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Steady! Steady! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't think that Peter Jackson's influences would extend to Mulan, although since he has two kids he may have seen it.

Arwen Melian · 12-21-2003, 04:48 PM

Well I knew all this, I juts wanted to add a thought thats all. And yes it is a coincidence. But I couldn't help but snicker a little when the hobbits were bowed to. And yes women in many cultures dressed up as men to fight. Eowyn actually reminds me of Freya: she is warrior like, yet beautiful (well in medieval terms anyway). Does anyone else feel Freya may have been an influence? After all Tolkien's works are Norse (and Celtic- can't forget that)influenced.

Arwen Melian · 12-21-2003, 04:51 PM

By the way, I think Star Wars was influnced by Tolkien . Not the other way around.

12-20-2003, 08:29 PM	#1
Arwen Melian Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sometimes Imladris....sometimes Mirkwood...other times ....Lothlorien Posts: 141	ROTK influenced by Mulan? I know it sounds crazy, but was it a coincidence, or was the movie really influenced by the Disney movie Mulan?<P>-Eowyn dressed as a man-<BR>Well that is merely a coincidence because the books came out before Mulan.<P>-The lighting of the beacons-<BR>It sounds like the scene on the Great Wall with the huns, and soldiers lighting the beacons to alert China of there presence.<P>-Lastly, the hobbits bowing to Aragorn, the he in turn bowing to them.Then the crowd bows.<BR>This is reminiscent of Mulan bowing to the emporor, and then he along with the citicens of the Imperial city bow her in return. Stange. And yes I am a book fan. Although I was slightly dissapointed with the scenes they left, out I foragve PJ this time. I can't think of any movie that made me cry as much as this.I will right more when I have time.<BR> Namarie. __________________ Maiden of Rivendell "Anything to get away from the evil monkey in my bedroom." Fine! I admit it. I am a supporter of Agent Elrond. Now would you please leave me be?

12-20-2003, 08:56 PM	#2
Iris Alantiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 97	I can't remember if Tolkien actually mentioned the lighting of the beacons in his writing, but historically, that's how people would call for help or signal danger in the days before we had telephones and radios and such. Those who spotted the danger would start a fire, and the next watchtower would see it and start a fire, and so on and so forth until the people at the end of the line saw the last fire and learned of the danger. Chances are LotR and Mulan both took this idea out of history, rather than LotR stealing it from Mulan.<P>As for the scene where Aragorn and the crowd bows to the hobbits, I think it was probably the easiest way to show that Aragorn, although he is the king and powerful and mighty, recognizes, honours, and values the contributions the hobbits have made to the defeat of Sauron. But I guess they could have taken inspiration for the idea from the comparable scene in Mulan. __________________ Above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell: I will not say the Day is done, nor bid the Stars farewell. -- Samwise Gamgee

12-20-2003, 09:06 PM	#3
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	Also Mulan is an ancient Chinese legend. Though Tolkien was more of the Norse type of guy, I'm sure he could have read the legend....shrugs Unlikely. <P>Also from my limited experience, it seems that myths repeat themselves (though with variations) in each culture. Think of all of the Cinderella myths, for example. So maybe there was a woman who dressed like a man in Norse history. Just a thought.<P>Iris probably has the right idea, though. __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry.

12-21-2003, 06:16 AM	#4
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	I can easily counter that with my theory that RotK was influenced by Snow-white.<P>Firstly, Snow-white perfectly fits the 'ideal of beauty' which we can also find in Arwen and Lúthien - dark hair, fair skin and eyes. Both Arwen and Snow-white eventually ascend to royalty.<P>Secondly, we have to consider that the original number of Fellowship members was seven (cf. HoME VI & VII). It's obvious Tolkien only added two so that the Snow-white influences were less apparent.<P>Thirdly, and most importantly, BOTH main characters get put into a deathlike paralysis by an evil poison and are later presumed dead. Both get rescued by their true companion/love.<BR>I'll ride down some more points later.

12-21-2003, 01:03 PM	#5
Luthien_ Tinuviel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: A very lovely tree-hut in the Chunnel. Posts: 804	Well, considering the fact that in the book Aragorn places Frodo and Sam on his throne, much to their astonishment, and the people honor them, not to mention the fact that there was no throne just sitting around in the movie, so the most effective way is just to have everyone bow, I would say no, there were no probable Mulan influences. __________________ I am a nineteen-year-old nomad photographer who owns a lemonade stand. You know what? I love Mip.

12-21-2003, 01:12 PM	#6
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	It is most likely just a coincidence. I don't think that Mulan could have influenced the movie. If I'm wrong, just let me know, and I'll be ready to have a dunce cap fitted! __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-21-2003, 04:25 PM	#7
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	You <B>have</B> to be kidding me. Everyone knows that both JRRT and PJ took all their inspiration from the Star Wars 5-logy! Mûmakil are basically AT-ATs with tails, Gandalf is Obi-Wan minus the lightsaber, although he does steal a Jar-Jar Binks line: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Steady! Steady! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't think that Peter Jackson's influences would extend to Mulan, although since he has two kids he may have seen it. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-21-2003, 04:48 PM	#8
Arwen Melian Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sometimes Imladris....sometimes Mirkwood...other times ....Lothlorien Posts: 141	Well I knew all this, I juts wanted to add a thought thats all. And yes it is a coincidence. But I couldn't help but snicker a little when the hobbits were bowed to. <BR>And yes women in many cultures dressed up as men to fight. Eowyn actually reminds me of Freya: she is warrior like, yet beautiful (well in medieval terms anyway). Does anyone else feel Freya may have been an influence? After all Tolkien's works are Norse (and Celtic- can't forget that)influenced. __________________ Maiden of Rivendell "Anything to get away from the evil monkey in my bedroom." Fine! I admit it. I am a supporter of Agent Elrond. Now would you please leave me be?

12-21-2003, 04:51 PM	#9
Arwen Melian Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sometimes Imladris....sometimes Mirkwood...other times ....Lothlorien Posts: 141	By the way, I think Star Wars was influnced by Tolkien . Not the other way around. __________________ Maiden of Rivendell "Anything to get away from the evil monkey in my bedroom." Fine! I admit it. I am a supporter of Agent Elrond. Now would you please leave me be?