Where is Radaghast???? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Guildo · 08-15-2002, 07:47 AM

Ive always been curious about old Radaghast the Brown Gandalfs brother, we here him breifly mentioned a couple times in the books, but i feel if any he is anything Gandalf he has stayed very busy and has something to do with the ring war, after all thats what the where sent to middle earth for.
We know them as Saruman the white (1), Gandalf the Grey (2), and Radaghast the Brown(3), but after Gandalf became the white and Saruman was over thrown would radaghast have not become Radaghast the grey?????
i also feel he made a breif aperiance in the chapter "the grey Havens" ..... "as they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwrite came forth to great them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long and he was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said:'All is now ready."

tell me what you think

**lindil** · 08-15-2002, 08:09 AM

Welcome to the barrows Guildo!

I am sorry but I can't agree w/ you much on this one.

JRRT portrays R'gast as something of a slacker as per his assignment - having become enamoured of birds and beasts.

Sorry but it was Cirdan at the Havens other wise Galadriel and Elrond woulod have balked at the subterfuge.

As for him becoming the grey - unlikely as as I said above he had be come derailed from his main assigment and so was not a real candidate for promotion if things even worked that way. If your surmise were correct would one or both of the Blue then become the brown? doubtful. See 'the Istari' in UT if you have not already done so. And 'Cirdan' in HoME 12.

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

Orome · 08-15-2002, 12:52 PM

sorry Guildo, but I have to agree with lindil. They were sent to ME to more or less keep Sauron from spreading. there is no textual evidence i have seen that says that Radagast did much besides take care of his birds.

I think that Tolkien may have even said somewhere that Radagast had failed his mission, but that could be hersay

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 08-15-2002, 01:12 PM

This might shed some light on the situation:

Quote:

Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwealt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Numenor of old, and signifies, it is said, 'tender of beasts').

Unfinished Tales - The Istari

There you have it: Radagast neglected his duty in order to become "Radagast the Bird-tamer", and only Gandalf remained faithful to the original mission of the Istari.

Legolas · 08-15-2002, 01:26 PM

Also, "the Grey" was not designated to a specific rank within the order. Only "the White" was used to identify the chief of the order.

Radagast is not Gandalf's brother. Gandalf calls him his cousin in The Hobbit when speaking to Beorn, but that is more than likely because it was written before Lord of the Rings. Gandalf may have simply called him cousin so that Beorn would make a closer association between the two since Gandalf was a stranger to him and Radagast was not.

As to the thread title, Radagast is probably still in Rhosgobel (wherever that is at in today's world) where he has established his own gigantic aviary.

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]

Guildo · 08-15-2002, 02:15 PM

Thank you very much for your reply, but one more perhaps suggestion, of course your all much more knowledgable about it than me but, perhaps Radaghast being Gandlafs brother knew he needed help in his most perilous times therefor sent Gwaihir to help him, and for that Gandalf gave him the Duty as Shipwrite at the Grey Havens and to look over the Shire when the left Middle Earth.

Legolas · 08-15-2002, 02:26 PM

Radagast is not Gandalf's brother.

Radagast is also not Cirdan the Shipwright.

Radagast does not appear in that chapter.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 08-16-2002, 06:15 AM

Please take heed of what Legalos has just said, Guildo. At no point is Radagast said to have been Gandalf's brother, and there's certainly not even a hint that he masquerades as Cirdan the Shipwright, who is a totally distinct character. Furthermore, although 'the Shipwright' is a title in this context, it was given to Cirdan because of his shipbuilding, rather than referring to any official position he held.

I should also be wary of your spell-checker, which is, I believe, inserting some egregious spelling mistakes on your behalf; notably 'Radaghast' and 'Shipwrite'.

Quote:

perhaps...knew he needed help in his most perilous times therefor sent Gwaihir to help him

Actually, Radagast's possible role as a communications officer for the Istari through his affinity with birds has already been mentioned in another thread, although I'm currently unable to find it. There it was suggested that Gwaihir's convenient appearance at certain times could have been the Brown Wizard's doing, but I stress that this was only a theory, and that there is no explicit textual evidence to prove it.

As for possible mental communication between the Istari, that too is discussed in the excellent Osanwe-Kenta thread started by lindil, although without specific reference to the Wizards.

Guildo · 08-16-2002, 06:21 AM

thank you for your knowledge i was nieve in the beginning. i have read further and i now know a bit more about Cirdan and Radagast.

MallornLeaf · 08-20-2002, 08:12 PM

<font color="aqua">Radagast was not in any way related to Gandalf. they were both Maiar... how can maiar be related in the brother/cousing way? they can't.

there were five Istari that went to ME to help in the war of the ring. two went east--failing. Saruaman was a traitor--failing. Radagast was uninvolved--failing. There mission was to help ME in the war of the Ring and Gandalf was the only one that succeeded. (this may have a good toll on why he was permitted to go back after his round with the balrog.)

Legolas · 08-22-2002, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Radagast was not in any way related to Gandalf. they were both Maiar... how can maiar be related in the brother/cousing way? they can't.

Just like Manwe and Melkor aren't brothers?

The way Mandos, Nienna, and Irmo aren't brother/sister/brother?

And Orome/Nessa being brother/sister?

These are Valar, but that is just a title for their role (as Maiar is too)...they're still Ainur. Although there are no other hints that suggest that Gandalf and Radagast probably are related, it most certainly is possible, and Maiar probably do have family relations among them.

08-15-2002, 07:47 AM	#1
Guildo Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Forgoten lands of the South Posts: 119	Where is Radaghast???? Ive always been curious about old Radaghast the Brown Gandalfs brother, we here him breifly mentioned a couple times in the books, but i feel if any he is anything Gandalf he has stayed very busy and has something to do with the ring war, after all thats what the where sent to middle earth for. We know them as Saruman the white (1), Gandalf the Grey (2), and Radaghast the Brown(3), but after Gandalf became the white and Saruman was over thrown would radaghast have not become Radaghast the grey????? i also feel he made a breif aperiance in the chapter "the grey Havens" ..... "as they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwrite came forth to great them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long and he was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said:'All is now ready." tell me what you think __________________ "You cant always get what you want.... But if you try sometimes you just my find.... you get what you need." Glen Sight

08-15-2002, 08:09 AM	#2
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,681	Welcome to the barrows Guildo! I am sorry but I can't agree w/ you much on this one. JRRT portrays R'gast as something of a slacker as per his assignment - having become enamoured of birds and beasts. Sorry but it was Cirdan at the Havens other wise Galadriel and Elrond woulod have balked at the subterfuge. As for him becoming the grey - unlikely as as I said above he had be come derailed from his main assigment and so was not a real candidate for promotion if things even worked that way. If your surmise were correct would one or both of the Blue then become the brown? doubtful. See 'the Istari' in UT if you have not already done so. And 'Cirdan' in HoME 12. [ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

08-15-2002, 01:26 PM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,850	Also, "the Grey" was not designated to a specific rank within the order. Only "the White" was used to identify the chief of the order. Radagast is not Gandalf's brother. Gandalf calls him his cousin in The Hobbit when speaking to Beorn, but that is more than likely because it was written before Lord of the Rings. Gandalf may have simply called him cousin so that Beorn would make a closer association between the two since Gandalf was a stranger to him and Radagast was not. As to the thread title, Radagast is probably still in Rhosgobel (wherever that is at in today's world) where he has established his own gigantic aviary. [ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

08-15-2002, 02:15 PM	#6
Guildo Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Forgoten lands of the South Posts: 119	Thank you very much for your reply, but one more perhaps suggestion, of course your all much more knowledgable about it than me but, perhaps Radaghast being Gandlafs brother knew he needed help in his most perilous times therefor sent Gwaihir to help him, and for that Gandalf gave him the Duty as Shipwrite at the Grey Havens and to look over the Shire when the left Middle Earth. __________________ "You cant always get what you want.... But if you try sometimes you just my find.... you get what you need." Glen Sight

08-15-2002, 02:26 PM	#7
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,850	Radagast is not Gandalf's brother. Radagast is also not Cirdan the Shipwright. Radagast does not appear in that chapter. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

08-15-2002, 12:52 PM	#3
Orome Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 195	sorry Guildo, but I have to agree with lindil. They were sent to ME to more or less keep Sauron from spreading. there is no textual evidence i have seen that says that Radagast did much besides take care of his birds. I think that Tolkien may have even said somewhere that Radagast had failed his mission, but that could be hersay

08-16-2002, 06:21 AM	#9
Guildo Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Forgoten lands of the South Posts: 119	thank you for your knowledge i was nieve in the beginning. i have read further and i now know a bit more about Cirdan and Radagast. __________________ "You cant always get what you want.... But if you try sometimes you just my find.... you get what you need." Glen Sight

08-20-2002, 08:12 PM	#10
MallornLeaf Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2002 Location: who cares? Posts: 76	<font color="aqua">Radagast was not in any way related to Gandalf. they were both Maiar... how can maiar be related in the brother/cousing way? they can't. there were five Istari that went to ME to help in the war of the ring. two went east--failing. Saruaman was a traitor--failing. Radagast was uninvolved--failing. There mission was to help ME in the war of the Ring and Gandalf was the only one that succeeded. (this may have a good toll on why he was permitted to go back after his round with the balrog.) __________________ ". . . All we must decide is what to do with the time that is given us." "I pass the test, I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."