Galadriel's

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Couldn't she have had full knowledge that her efforts would ultimately be futile, yet still mourn for the moment when it came?
This has gotten a bit off course, going from the question of whether Lórien's beauty and healing properties were mainly the results of the Elessar's powers, or of Narya's, to the merits of the effort itself to create a Valinor in miniature. I take the blame for getting things off track. Perhaps this question deserves a thread of its own.

A thread of its own, indeed.

But what would she mourn if all was wrought out of futility? If all her endeavors paled in comparison to the real thing, why mourn the moment of loss? Why would she mourn losing Lórien if her heart's desire was to Valinor? Remember what she said to Celebrimbor or Gandalf in U.T., that she wished for trees and grass that do not die. Did not Nenya afford her this power? There was no stain, decay, or deformity in Lórien, so why would you say Galadriel was disatisfied because it did not match the real thing? And if her creations with Nenya she deemed futile (as you suggest), why lust over the One? Because this was the only way to save Lórien, right? Of course, if she wanted to save Lórien, it must mean that she loved it and did not regret or considered it of lower in quality compared to the West (as you also suggest). Hence, her regret, I believe, truly stems from Nenya being bound to the One. Since she rejects the One, she helps bring about the end of Nenya. There's the futility.

[Selmo]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel
What "party" was there or "gain" to be lost if Galadriel pereceived, as you said, all that she created with Nenya to be a hallow echo of the West? It just seems incosistent to me for her to regret creating everything with Nenya in the line of thought that it could never be as good as Valinor.


There was a great deal of "gain" to be lost from the failing of Nenya's powers as far as Galadriel was concerned.

It wasn't just Lorien, her pale imitation of The West, that she was losing; it was her control over the lives of others - her sovereignty.
That's what she craved when she left Valinor. She didn't join Feanor's rebelion. She took no oath. She just tagged along for the ride, determined to seek power for herself in Middle-Earth.

When Galadriel said to Frodo that she would diminish and go into The West, she was setting aside her lust for dominance and at long last learning humility.
As well as losing Lorien, she was losing her power of command. Back in Valinor she would be just another Elf, of a Royal line, maybe, but with no authority.

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[Raynor]

I agree with Selmo on her greed for power, however I would insist more on Lorien being the object of her greed.

Originally Posted by Chapter IX, Silmarillion

No oaths she swore, but the words of Feanor concerning Middle-earth had kindled in her heart, for she yearned to see the wide unguarded lands and to rule there a realm at her own will.

I would say she had quite a high standing among the elves already while being in Valinor, due to her innate skills and beauty, and by being a direct descendent of the ruler of all the Noldor in the blessed realms.

However, one thing she lacked there was having a land she could actually rule. Even if you "claim" a parcel there, who in their right mind would say "I am an uncontended ruler of this land" - not when the Valar are right under your nose, and you know them in their majesty fully revealed. On the other hand, Middle-Earth does seem to be outside the direct influence of the valar, and finding, claiming, ruling and defending your own realm there makes more sense and appeases more the thirst for power.

[The Might]

Firstly, Raynor, youre back!!! Great to see you here again, hope you'll stay for some time.

Secondly, I agree with the two posts before me and first want to add a quotation showing her desire for a land to rule on her own take from a "late and philological essay" as CT says:

She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage.

Also interesting is the fact that in the last note the Professor ever wrote on M-e, he showed Galadriel's desire of new lands in a better light:

...she did indeed wish to depart from Valinor and to go into the wide world of Middle-earth for the exercise of her talents

In the years after they did not join in the war against Angband, which they judged to be hopeless under the ban of the Valar and without their aid; and their counsel was to withdraw from Beleriand and to build up a power to the eastward (whence they feared that Morgoth would draw reinforcement), befriending and teaching the Dark Elves and Men of those regions.

This story, withdrawing Galadriel from all association with the rebellion of Fëanor, even to the extent of giving her a separate departure (with Celeborn) from Aman, is profoundly at variance with all that is said elsewhere. It arose from "philosophical" (rather than "historical") considerations, concerning the precise nature of Galadriel's disobedience in Valinor on the one hand, and her status and power in Middle-earth on the other. That it would have entailed a good deal of alteration in the narrative of The Silmarillion is evident; but that my father doubtless intended to do.

Still, I think all in all the change wouldn't have been that great. Galadriel does seem to appear as more of a teacher than a ruler coming to M-e, but surely Tolkien never intended to also change the text in LotR. So perhaps her desire to rule wouldn't be so clear within the Silmarillion, but would develop until the time of LotR.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by The Might

Still, I think all in all the change wouldn't have been that great. Galadriel does seem to appear as more of a teacher than a ruler coming to M-e, but surely Tolkien never intended to also change the text in LotR. So perhaps her desire to rule wouldn't be so clear within the Silmarillion, but would develop until the time of LotR.

In my opinion, in general it would be a quite notable change concerning a major character, but I think you mean in the context of the actual expression of Galadriel's motives to seek Middle-earth, and in that narrowed sense -- and with respect to the Silmarillion tradition proper, or even including the Annals -- there's not much text to alter if I remember correctly.

The Later Quenta Silmarillion (phase I in the early 1950s) noted that (after the oath of Feanor): '... for Angrod and Egnor and Galadriel were with Fingon, whereas Orodreth stood aside and spoke not.' It is in The Annals of Aman that Galadriel is said to have yearned to see the wide untrodden lands '... and to rule there a realm maybe at her own will'. Tolkien seems to further 'explain' this by adding that she was the youngest of the House of Finwe, and came into the world west of the Sea '... and knew yet nought of the unguarded lands.'*

In The Grey Annals Galadriel tells Melian that the Noldor came of their own will, and against that of the Valar, and: 'For this purpose we came: to take vengeance upon Morgoth [or >] and regain what he stole.'

Christopher Tolkien's 'a good deal of alteration in the narrative of The Silmarillion' refers to the revised story as a whole, but this late version is problematic with respect to more than one matter, and contradicts Galadriel's (and Celeborn's) history as published in The Road Goes Ever On.

It's possible (if pure speculation!) that the adumbrated tale never got beyond an adumbrated tale because Tolkien actually stopped to refresh his memory -- concerning what he had published about Galadriel, versus what he had merely written about her over the years -- though obviously other things are certainly 'possible' here. Tolkien would pass from this life soon enough after this late text was written, in any case.
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*Christopher Tolkien comments that this is strange, because all the progeny of Finwe were born in Aman.