WW LXXIII: Arkham Asylum: Holding Cells(Game Thread)

[Glirdan]

Don't worry, Sally, currently in the midst of going through ALL the posts and trying to come up with an informed decision...Hard to do when you've missed more then half the Day

[Isabellkya]

Originally Posted by Izzy

What purpose would it serve her, if she were nefarious to go around proclaiming it?
To see if it would be passed off as first Day banter and play?

If she is nefarious and is lynched because of her proclamations; then that would be quite the silly wolf. Or do you supposed she is the Cobbler?

Originally Posted by Loslote

She might have been hoping people would say "oh, a wolf would never be so bold, she must be innocent!"

Originally Posted by Izzy

Your reasons, or lack there of confuse me Loslote. Should these of been things that you yourself had thought of before making your vote. As opposed to speculating when I asked after your vote?

From the your post here in the middle, it had not sounded like you considered the motive behind a Nerwolf playing around in evil banter.

[satansaloser2005]

Gah. I'm really quite tired and have things I want to do before I go to bed, so....

++Wilwa

For the feelings I expressed earlier. If I'm overruled on this fine, but I'm going to go with my gut. And then I'm going to go to bed.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Which comment? I'm afraid you've lost me...

The one she just quoted, surely?

Originally Posted by Loslote

@ Nerwen: It's not so much evil as it is laughing at evilness that could potentially be in you...and acting as though it's funny to pretend.

Oh. So... not evil, then? Is that your way of backing down?

Okay, I don't want to focus too much on Lottie–

–Now, other people: I've said I don't like the look of Pitch.

Durelin– nothing really, except that she hasn't contributed much... and Lottie did that odd thing of saying she suspected her, but wouldn't vote her because of her "code".

Wilwa and Boro voting each other in the rather theatrical way they did is kind of interesting. And Wilwa had taken pains to say she thought the baddies would go out of their way to support each other...

EDIT:X'd since Sally at #120.

[satansaloser2005]

Aaaand that's your Daily dose of Sally. If I'm needed I think a good third of you have my number and I can come back if necessary. Now good night!


ETA: x'd with Nerwen

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Kitanna----->Loslote
Pitch------>Durelin
Nogrod----->Pitch
Wilwa----->Boro
Loslote---->Nerwen
Boro---->Wilwa
Sally----->Wilwa

and then there were four...

[Glirdan]

So one thing I'm noticing right off the bat here is the constant Lottie versus Nerwen posts. Really eyebrow raising for me. Perhaps Wolf on Wolf? However, I do not believe that either of them would be that blatant about it. Yet we cannot count out the fact that they might like us to think this way and thus avoid detection....Hmm.....

Anyways,

Originally Posted by Sallycakes

Well, that's not entirely true. I found a knife under his pillow. Worried? A bit.

That's funny as I found a blowtorch in YOUR room!

Originally Posted by Boro

Why is it always me at the focus of controversy on Day 1s!? Why!?

Certainly not because of your comedic timing cuz you don't have any. I for one was actually just being a nuisance and felt like stirring things up a bit seeing as there was nothing but in character posting (with the odd few here and there).

Originally Posted by Sallycakes

Nice commentary on the logistics of the game, but it seems a bit too much of a "ra ra village we can do this" post to me. I'm just sayin'.

Which is typical innocent Wilwa (still don't trust you though )

To help prove my point a little further about the Lottie versus Nerwen debacle, highlighting the points I find most interesting:

Originally Posted by Pitch

#8 Glirdan makes a typical Day1 banteresque remark that Boro likes to see Batman killed + posted first -> is guilty.
#9 Lottie comments on Glirdan's post that if there's anything at all in Boro's post, it could be a cobbler hint; then immediately cautions against taking that too seriously.
#10 Nerwen replies with what could be seen as a hint of her own and says Boro could be wolf hinting to cobbler.
#11 Lottie takes notice of Nerwen's maybe-hint and cautions further against taking apparent hints too seriously; "don't think we should automatically assume Boro's evil."
#13 Nerwen points out that obvious hints from baddies early in game are rare and continues with maybe/maybe not.
#16 Glirdan is starting to get unnerved by Lottie and Nerwen making more of his remark than he intended. I don't know how serious he was about the unnerving - could be overreaction.
#18 Kit comments on Lottie's ambiguity about the hint question.
#20 Pitch (that's me) questions Glirdan on his reaction.
#21 wilwa doesn't see anything cobblerish in Boro.
#22 Neither does Nog.
#29 Pitch (see above) comments on Nerwen's wolf-cheer and Lottie's ambiguity, is wishy-washy himself.
And thus it goes on with nothing really new, apart from sally's knife joke, which made me coin the metaphor Kit objects to.

The next four posts after my typical Day 1 banter were by none other then the two in question. Bandwagon forming, or am I just delirious?

Originally Posted by Nog

Glirdan - Confused about him, like I tend to be...

Good to know that some things never change.

Originally Posted by Lottie

Ooh. Nice theory, but it raises a point: I don't think wolves are going to be very close to each other at all, since there's only two. I would think we should be looking more for people studiously ignoring each other and maybe saying "oh, I don't know, maybe they're evil..." than "ooh they're so awesome/evil!!!"

Or perhaps you're just saying this to throw us off because in actuality you and Nerwen are the Wolves and you just don't want us to catch onto it?

Originally Posted by Pitch

Seriously though, I think we should let Glirdan be for toDay, as he's got a RL time issue and may not be able to speak for himself in time.

FINALLY someone who reads the posts in the Admin threads! Thank you!

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Nog, again, I love you.

The fact that this is the second time that she said this unsettles me. Her and Nog are usually at each other's throats....Hmmm.....And after reading all of these points brought up about her constant "We have enough time" schpeals, I'm really actually starting to question her motives.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

[B]Ye-es.... only it'll be harder then usual for the wolves to control the lynch this early, and if one dies and leaves a clear trail to the other– game over. (Poor widdle fings )

This post makes me leary. I am still quite adamant that she is no ordinary villager...but this makes me lean towards her being a Cobbler and not a Wolf...Thanks for possibly shooting a hole in my Wolf on Wolf theory.

Originally Posted by Dury

I'm not going to explaining myself this time. No one ever listens anyway.

Too many people... (I know, there's really not as many as usual...)

I'll try to come up with something.

Originally Posted by Dury

Aw, I have to double post? I want to give you guys something before people go to bed.

So the reasons for my groupings: the voices in my head? It's like gut feeling. It tells me things. Indigestion does make the voices more talkative.

Basically, Nogrod's first couple posts gave me a vibe of some vague sort. Loslote is annoyingly agree-able and like 'im going to be helpful!' But so is Sally.

Glirdan seemed like low-radar wolf somehow, and Kitanna seemed like 'I'm going to be the sense in this chaos and skate through silly Day 1 mwaha.'

But Pitchwife could be the same thing.

And Isabel is low-radar skater wolf.

Hehe.

Okay, these two posts make me uneasy, but more of "Look at me, I'm the Cobbler" sort of way. No explanation of any sorts from the first post and the second just seems like a "I'm going to just be a menace and make no sense but try to seem helpful" kinda thing...Or maybe that's the delirium again.

Another post to throw me off kilter with Wilwa:

Boro's first post, I don't see anything wrong with it, just a fun story he wanted to share. But afterwards he defended it, then again, then just some little comments here and there and not really much more than that. So I find he spent too much time focusing on something that was not really that big of a deal, and really it's not like someone was gonna vote him just for that, so it didn't really merit the defence. Just seems like he could have said something more pertinent.

And then later, in the EXACT same post (highlighting the important bit):

*breaths* Anyways. So Pitch and Lottie do look a bit off to me, but I think Boro is the worst. I just find he made a big deal about people making a big deal out of something little he said. And then there wasn't much else (RL, I know, but he did make some random comments here and there, if he knew he couldn't come back he *should* have said something substantial instead). So. My vote could very well go here.

Why go out of your way to defend him and then do a complete 180 to discredit him? This post is too flip-floppy for me (which is hilarious considering that I'M usually the flip-floppy one!)

Originally Posted by Dury

I didn't vote for you, Loslote.

But I'm glad you fear me.

Too obvious to be an outright Wolf confession....and perhaps even a little too outright as a Cobbler...But something just isn't sitting right with me when I see her posts.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

No, not because he wants to vote for me, but because he plans to vote for me if I vote for him. There's a difference.

No, no there really is no difference at all. Hmmm......

And that brings me to the end of my extremely long post rummaging....Now for a list of suspects.

Suspect
Wilwa
Nerwen
Dury
Lottie

Unsure
Boro
Nog
Izzy
Kit

Inclined to Trust
Sally
Pitch

Trust
Glirdan
Mod God

Will vote shortly.

[Durelin]

I'm sorry, but don't expect a lot of contribution. I'll be around, but I'm always so busy...busy, busy... Time is a terrible thing to waste. Or is that the mind?

I'm pretty lost and rather wanting to vote people who have no votes. But that is not a good idea at this time. So...of the people who have votes.

++Loslote

Seems the worst to me, though it could very well be her style. I normally suspect Sally because of hers, though I now suspect her more because of her way of going about voting Wilwa. But I don't feel great about Wilwa either.

Ohhh bleh.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

So one thing I'm noticing right off the bat here is the constant Lottie versus Nerwen posts. Really eyebrow raising for me. Perhaps Wolf on Wolf?

Nope. She's been going after me in what I think is a very opportunistic way, and I've been defending myself. It really is that simple.

EDIT:X'd with Durelin.

[Glirdan]

Gah!!! Don't know who to vote for....Okay, listen to gut instincts time....

++Lottie

Haven't been trusting her since the start of the game after she jumped on the bandwagon after my bantering comment about Boro and everything else that has been said toDay just made me trust her less.

[Isabellkya]

It being the first Day, one can not expect people to make full and substantial cases against whom they are voting for.

I do not particularly like how Boromir said he was going to vote for Wilwa because he thought Wilwa would vote for him. Then it ended up happening.

More that I don't particularly like is the seemingly odd reason that Loslote voted for Nerwen. Could Nerwen be a wolf or Cobbler? Sure, but we all could.

++Loslote


X'd with Glirdan. Bah.

[Isabellkya]

Are there vote retractions?

[Morsul the Dark]

Kitanna----->Loslote
Pitch------>Durelin
Nogrod----->Pitch
Wilwa----->Boro
Loslote---->Nerwen
Boro---->Wilwa
Sally----->Wilwa(2)
Durelin------>Loslote(2)
Glirdan-------->Loslote(3)
Isabel---->Loslote(4)


14 minutes one more votes..... I here 'Hook's Bane' ticking away




NO VOTE RETRACTIONS

It would be unfair to those who had to vote early

[Nerwen]

So I believe we have Wilwa and Lottie in the lead?

I'll probably vote for one of them, but I'm not sure which yet... just a moment...

EDIT:X'd since Glirdan.

[Nerwen]

Oh, well, then–

++Lottie.

[Nerwen]

Like I said, my gut feeling is that she's only the cobbler– but heck, she was a pretty lethal cobbler last time.

Let's hope for the best.

[Morsul the Dark]

DEADline

LOSLOTE shall be lynched. a harmless guard she was

[Morsul the Dark]

"The People Have Spoken... Our first candidate to play a little game with me is LOSLOTE!" Two henchmen came to her room and dragged her out of the hall. A few moments passed then she appeared on screen with the Joker. "Ah Lottie Lottie Lottie. Do you like games? Here's one of my favorites." Joker pulled a monopoly box from under his chair. "Would you like to play?"

Frightened Loslote nodded slowly unsure what was happening.

"Oh look a get of jail free card. That's always helpful. Tell you what I'm feeling charitable have this card. I'll let you use it for real. Like The Monopoly man you'll fly away from here. Sound good?"

Loslote began to weep overjoyed that she would live.

"Alright then if your going to fly out of here you'll need wings!HEHEHAHAHA" The two henchmen grabbed here slamming her face down on the table Joker Took a staple gun and began painfully attached a pair of costume wings up and down her back. "Fly little bird Fly HAHAAHAHA!"

With that Loslote was sent through the window a camera from the security room caught the poor young woman plummet into the ocean....dead.


Night Folk do your thing

Alive(For Now)
Nerwen
Sally
Wilwa
Pitch
Glirdan
Boro
Kitanna
Isabel
Nogrod

DEAD
Loslote-Ordo-Guard

[Morsul the Dark]

Two-Face flipped his coin... Heads He decided to venture into the hall. Looking left and right he couldn't decide He once again flipped his life became dependent on the coin. It was his entire thought process his conscience. He was useless without it.

He took a few steps before hearing the growl behind him. There was no way the ring had betrayed him. He turned and faced the monstrosity know as Croc. Croc ate human flesh the jury was out wether or not it could be called Cannibalism or not. "HEHEHE.... I like Dark Meat mmmm" Two-Face couldn't decide whether to run or Fight. Before the coin hit the floor his body was already torn in half. The Human side left bleeding out across the floor as a trail followed Croc eating as he went.

The sun had rose. And Hopes had risen the wretched Boro, Two-Face was gone.

Alive(For Now)
Nerwen
Sally
Wilwa
Pitch
Glirdan
Kitanna
Isabel
Nogrod

DEAD
Loslote-Ordo-Guard
Boro- Two-Face(Cobbler)

[Kitanna]

Boro as the victim? Erm...I'll get into that later. First off I'll like to go over the votes from yesterday.

Me: voted Loslote for her overly agreeable nature toward Glirdan's comment about Boro hinting.
Pitch: stated it was a shot in the dark and voted Durelin, saying we'd listen if she'd say more.
Nogrod: voted Pitch, didn't really give a reason in the vote post (I'll dig it up later I suppose)
Wilwa: voted Boro on the basis of his defense toward his first post. At one point she states his first wasn't what raised her suspicions, but it was his defense of it.
Loslote: votes Nerwen

No, I think it's suspicious that Nerwen's saying "Oh I'm soooo evil! Haha isn't it hilarious???" and Wilwa's playing along. I doubt if they're both wolves, but I'm pretty sure one is. I think it's Nerwen.

Boro: votes Wilwa, though he admits to having nothing
Sally: votes Wilwa, feeling her tone is off. "too unreal to be innocent"
Durelin: votes Loslote, not entirely sure why. Loslote wasn't in her pairing group from her earlier posts and she's not mentioned in her explanation post either.
Glirdan: votes Loslote as well. Comments on her jumping onto the hinting joke he had made in regards to Boro's first post.
Isabellkya: voted Loslote. Seemed to be more interested in Nerwen or Boro as a baddie though, at least that's how I read it.
Nerwen: voted Loslote thinking maybe she was a cobbler.

So...who looks the worst?
I'm assuming I'll be looked at because I cast the first vote for Loslote.
But I think Durelin, Glirdan, and Wilwa to some extent look the worst.
Durelin: She pairs off some possible wolves, but doesn't mention Loslote and yet still ends up casting her vote for her. Now Durelin has said she's busy and can't contribute much, so does her lack of explanation have to do with lack of time or something more sinister?
Glirdan: His vote breaks the Wilwa-Loslote tie bringing Lottie's vote count to 3 while Wilwa's is 2.
Wilwa: her vote for Boro is suspect because he died. It's probably too early for a daring bluff of having a wolf vote for that night's victim, but I wouldn't put it past wolf-Wilwa.

I was inclined to include Isabellkya because of her Lottie vote, but I don't find it overly suspicious right now. I'll be taking a closer look at posts after some sleep so this opinion is inclined to change. For now the three listed above look the most suspicious to me based on their votes.

[Durelin]

Oh that's hilarious!

Also hilarious:

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Durelin: votes Loslote, not entirely sure why. Loslote wasn't in her pairing group from her earlier posts and she's not mentioned in her explanation post either.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

She pairs off some possible wolves, but doesn't mention Loslote and yet still ends up casting her vote for her. Now Durelin has said she's busy and can't contribute much, so does her lack of explanation have to do with lack of time or something more sinister?

More quotes!!

Originally Posted by Me

Wolves - Round 1

Nogrod
Loslote

Originally Posted by Me

Loslote is annoyingly agree-able and like 'im going to be helpful!' But so is Sally.

P.S. - I also don't care to contribute much.

[Durelin]

Btw, forgive me my sillyness.

*gives everyone cookies before she scuttles off*

I don't care if you think I'm furry or not, I just don't want you to hate me. <3

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Hax! I was rushed and focused on Nogrod, Glirdan and myself when I was rereading. I strike my earlier comments about Durelin from the records because I'm stupid and clearly unable to read.

[Isabellkya]

Haha.
The Cobbler as the First Night kill choice.
I am not sure you can get better, save for a wolf killing themselves I suppose.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Haha.
The Cobbler as the First Night kill choice.
I am not sure you can get better, save for a wolf killing themselves I suppose.

We certainly owe Lottie an apology! I mean, she was right about him all along... and we went and lynched her. Lucky we have such nice, helpful wolves...

Now, the obligatory why-was-he-killed? bit:

Originally Posted by Kit

Wilwa: her vote for Boro is suspect because he died. It's probably too early for a daring bluff of having a wolf vote for that night's victim, but I wouldn't put it past wolf-Wilwa.

It's at least possible. Also the reason she gave for voting him wasn't the best, even by Day One standards.

Originally Posted by Kit

Glirdan: His vote breaks the Wilwa-Loslote tie bringing Lottie's vote count to 3 while Wilwa's is 2.

He does makes a case against Wilwa herself here. All the same, it's rather wishy-washy and doesn't make that much sense, and in the same post he also describes her "ra-ra village" posting that other people found suspicious as "typical innocent Wilwa". Hmmn.

EDIT: formatting.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Haha.
The Cobbler as the First Night kill choice.
I am not sure you can get better, save for a wolf killing themselves I suppose.

Joining wilwa in the optimist camp?
To be sure, it's nice to be rid of the cobbler this early, and the only way we could have fared better up to now would have been catching a wolf yesterDay instead of that (sadly predictable) Lottiewagon. Let's just not get over-confident; pride comes before the fall, and all that.
Speaking of said wagon, I'm more than a bit puzzled by Izzy going after Lottie so aggressively after this earlier post of hers:

Originally Posted by Izzy #

I disagree with the sentiment that you can never have too much joking. If the amount of joking is weighted against the actual playing, and is found to be heavier; then it is a bad time we will have in catching the wolves. As it means people can just hide behind the joke aspect of the game, which includes the wolves and cobblers. Then it will mean a tougher time distinguishing between actual joking around and showboat joking.

which, unless I'm completely misunderstanding something, seems to support Lottie's (and my own) uneasiness about Nerwen's jokes with good reasons. So whence the later attack on Lottie for saying that Nerwen's bantering looked like a disguise for evil? Wasn't she saying the same thing in other words?

And Nerwen, I'm sorry if I've come across as a humourless git, and I appreciate your playing according to the theme and all that, but it freaked me out because I found it impossible to get a read on you from that behaviour (not that it's that much easier when you're being serious, but still), and I suspected that could well be the purpose behind the whole act. The reason why I didn't actually vote you was that by voting time, I'd flip-flopped from "no she wouldn't" to "but then again, she might" and back to "but not really" so much that I wasn't sure myself anymore what I was currently thinking...
In clear Daylight, I'm inclined to think your performance yesterDay would fit a cobbler better than a wolf, and as the real cobbler is now accounted for, I'd have to say you look better toDay - if it wasn't for your vote driving the last nail into Lottie's coffin. Now that looks opportunistic to me...

[wilwarin538]

Wow. It's quite unusual for us to actually be happy about the person who dies at night, haha.


So first I have to comment on this post quite a bit, since it's bugging me, so I'm gonna get it out of the way right off the bat.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Another post to throw me off kilter with Wilwa:

And then later, in the EXACT same post:

Why go out of your way to defend him and then do a complete 180 to discredit him? This post is too flip-floppy for me (which is hilarious considering that I'M usually the flip-floppy one!)

This is just wrong. I did not do a 180 in that post, because that first quote is certainly not me defending him, it's actually me making my case against him (yes, it was weak, but it was Day 1). I did in an earlier post say that his defense was all right, but my problem grew when he was making little, and somewhat useless posts instead of contributing. So my point became that if he knew he wouldn't be able to contribute that much later on because of RL, then he shouldn't have bothered making that long defensive post and should have talked about something else instead. I would not call that me "going out of my way to defend him".

And you're still the flip-floppy one.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

No, no there really is no difference at all. Hmmm......

Yes, yes there really is. If he voted me with some reason for suspecting me, then cool, whatever. But he didn't have anything against me except that I voted him, and that's not quite so cool.

Then Glirdan first says my optimism is typical innocent Wilwa, and then later in the EXACT same post (yes, I'm mocking) he says that that makes me look bad, because other people brought points against me for that. So he himself didn't find it suspicious, rather innocent looking actually, but later after seeing that others found it suspicious, now he does too. Yes, still the flip-floppy one.

Glirdan, if you insist on always suspecting me then please atleast try a bit harder to interpret what I say properly instead of twisting my words around, cause that only leads me to suspect you, and you're usually innocent when I suspect you, so I'd rather not continually be wrong.

Ok.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Joining wilwa in the optimist camp?

It's fun here guys, you know you want in.


I need to get some breakfast.

I'll be around randomly throughout the day.

[Pitchwife]

Concerning the other riders on the tragic wagon, it should be considered that Kit and Dury haven't played much (if at all) with Lottie before, and therefore may be excused for finding suspicious what looked to me at least more or less like typical regular ordo-Lottie. Not quite the same for Glirdan.

Others:

Originally Posted by Kit's list #140

Nogrod: voted Pitch, didn't really give a reason in the vote post (I'll dig it up later I suppose)

He didn't really have to, he'd been suspecting me for quite a while before because of me supporting Lottie and vice versa and me saying the wolves wouldn't do such a thing.
Having slept over it, I must admit his case against me doesn't look as fabricated as I thought yesterDay - meaning I sort of see how he got there; the only thing that's wrong with his theory is that it happens to be - well, wrong.

Boro and wilwa voting each other: it's obvious from the Night-kill that the wolves had no idea Boro was the cobbler (and isn't it sort of strange that they didn't even consider the possibility after yesterDay's controversy about his first post?), so I'm afraid wilwa's vote doesn't really tell us anything about her, neither pro nor con. It's quite clear, however, that Boro thought her innocent.

sally voting wilwa: consistent with her earlier suspicion of wilwa on the grounds of forced optimism. That's not that much of a reason, but seems OK for a Day 1 vote.

(x-ed with wilwa. Interesting points about Glirdan...)

[wilwarin538]

it's obvious from the Night-kill that the wolves had no idea Boro was the cobbler (and isn't it sort of strange that they didn't even consider the possibility after yesterDay's controversy about his first post)

It is rather odd. Maybe they didn't think a cobblerBoro would do something so obvious? Or they may have seen something in another person's post that they took as a cobbler hint? It's hard to tell, but yeah, they certainly didn't see it as a possibilty, unless they wanted to kill the cobbler or didn't care about the cobbler, but both of those seem unlikely. But whatever the reason, it definitely boosted up my optimism.

[Nogrod]

A lot has been talked about the Lottie-wagon but there has been a relative silence as to what makes that wagon suspicious in the first place. Voting an innocent is not a mark of suspiciousness as such - we all do it all the time.

That means we should also consider why voting Lottie was suspicious if we say it is suspicious.

To my mind there are two things of some importance in any bandwagon in general.

Firstly if there is a kind of consensus about who to lynch it is easy for the wolves to blend in. Especially if they have been careful enough earlier not to make too elaborate points on other people so as not to look like making a 180.

This could fit the last voters of Lottie.

Secondly they might wish to join a rising tide in hopes of saving their mate from trouble.

The only competition for Lottie was Wilwa so this could fit those who voted to bring Lottie even and past her. Also if Wilwa is a wolf, the wolves might have felt uneasy with Boro's vote and thus be more inclined to kill him at Night.

The problem for me is that at least now I don't feel Wilwa to be especially suspicious, but that is in no way an informed position. I need to check her posting a bit more closely when I come back.

[Pitchwife]

Some musings on Glirdan:

Originally Posted by Glirdan #127

To help prove my point a little further about the Lottie versus Nerwen debacle, highlighting the points I find most interesting:
[extensive quote of the summary provided by yours truly, Pw.]
The next four posts after my typical Day 1 banter were by none other then the two in question. Bandwagon forming, or am I just delirious?

and later

Originally Posted by Glirdan #130

++Lottie
Haven't been trusting her since the start of the game after she jumped on the bandwagon after my bantering comment about Boro

Maybe I'm being dense, but which bandwagon exactly is this he keeps talking about? To the extent that there was any such thing at all in the posts he's referring to, it was directed at Boro, and it never really got rolling as far as actual votes were concerned (although, with hindsight, that wouldn't have been such a bad thing), as Lottie and Nerwen were busy at each other's throats by then, so why this strong reaction?

And some musings on Nog:

Originally Posted by Nog #74

But to see Pitch being the main source of my heightened suspicion of Nerwen makes me actually raise my eyebrow. A coincidence?

Really? After this

Originally Posted by Nog #19

And talking of cobbler hints, Nerwen's "Yay! Go wolves!" is on a class of its own. That she pleads insanity doesnt't do away the fact that she decided to voice that sentence in the first place.

and this

Originally Posted by Nog #53

Nerwen - I feel uncomfortable with her right now. The more people say she was probably just joking with her "Go wolves!" the more plausible it seems as a cobbler-tactics (or even wolf-tactics)... if you see what I mean. Your tendency to believe it a joke makes it a worthwhile deception.

and this

Originally Posted by Nog #61

If you look for the bold, look for Nerwen or Dury

you still needed me to heighten your suspicion? And after I'd discussed both the pro's and cons of a cobbler- or wolf-Nerwen acting like she'd been doing?
And speaking of coincidences, I can't help but find it funny (not furry, but funny) that right after I'd suggested looking for wolves among the reasonable people (including you, and thanks for returning the favour) your very next post was the entertaining rhapsody to 'Beautiful Soup'...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitch

you still needed me to heighten your suspicion?

Actually yes, I did.

The thing that raised my eyebrow first was her open declaration of supporting the wolves, in a joking manner of course. A joke or not, but you can see the end-result: most people think she is not a baddie because a baddie wouldn't do such a thing. Ergo: what should a wise wolf do? Just that.

Think of it from the perspective of a tight lynching with Nerwen and someone else facing the gallows, and how people would pick and choose their votes if they had no better ideas: "Gosh I can't say which one I suspect more but one of them is going to get lynched... what am I gonna do? Hey, Nerwen made that joke on D1! Surely a wolf wouldn't do that, would one? Oh, she must be the innocent one so I'll vote the other candidate."

Now someone of you say: "hey, but we're discussing her post now so it is not true it was a good move for a wolf!" But how much would it have been discussed if I hadn't incessantly kept it up?


But *back to the subject* yes, your analysis raised my suspicions to the next level - at least at first. The fact that Nerwen made that one post saying "Go wolves!" is quite a little in the end - and not a reason to campaign against a brilliant mind like hers on D1.

On Day1 mind you.

Anyway, when I came back to the computer and read your analysis of how the Boro-suspicion was born and how it developed it looked to me (on the basis of your analysis) that Nerwen was being the proponent who nicely drove the discussion towards Boro and that could be said to look wolvish as well: taking points from others and carrying them forwards to keep up the discussion and suspicions on safe-people (so not one of your own).

So your analysis really made me think about Nerwen's guilt with added strength. There were now two things I suspected her on. And there's a difference there. You have a thought "this might be suspicious indeed". Good but quite thin. You have another thing that fits well with your first suspicion... it starts to be much more believable.

Then I looked back at the first posts just to be on the safe side with my suspicions of Nerwen and found out that the feeling I got from there was quite different from what I got from your analysis. Thus it made me suspect Nerwen less and, not miraculously, to suspect you more for willing to make Nerwen look bad.


On the Glirdan's bandwagon issue: I think Glirdy meant the continuous talk about Boro. At least that is how I read it. Also I'm not sure if I would call it a strong reaction. It might as well be just falling short of any better reason.

Votewise Glirdy's vote is crucial though as he puts Lottie in the lead over Wilwa. So I'm not saying I think him innocent. I think none of you as innocents right now. But I'd say the thing that makes Glirdy suspicious is not his "strong reaction".

[Kitanna]

After some wonderful sleep I'm back and plan to look into those I listed as my top suspects earlier.

Glirdan:
Post 1:

Okay, so Boro is a Wolf because he talked about a student killing Batman in a picture, and had first post, and I just plain think he's going to be no help on this camping trip. Sure, he's good at cleaning and cooking, but we're in the middle of the Sahara Dessert with no bathroom in sight!

This is what started the whole discussion of Boro hinting at something. This looks to be pretty much in-game banter. The same goes with his remarks toward Durelin in the same post. He lists Wilwa as a wolf based on principle.
Post 2:

And I think Lottie and Nerwen are reading into this whole first post thing a little too much. Starting to unnerve me and if they don't stop I'm going to go and tell mom!!

Mentions Lottie and Nerwen because of how they have responded to his in-game banter against Boro.
Post 3: Nothing of substance, just a "hi, I'm back post"
Post 4: Another of the same, stating he's trying to come up with an informed decision.
Post 5:

So one thing I'm noticing right off the bat here is the constant Lottie versus Nerwen posts. Really eyebrow raising for me. Perhaps Wolf on Wolf? However, I do not believe that either of them would be that blatant about it. Yet we cannot count out the fact that they might like us to think this way and thus avoid detection....Hmm.....

Again makes mention of Lottie and Nerwen as a possible pair.
In this post he also responds to Boro's frustration at having his joke post picked apart. Yet he does nothing but defend his own joke post about Boro possibly hinting. Also he says once more he doesn't trust Wilwa, he says it with a smile so clearly she's not a real suspect to him.
He highlights a post by Pitch that breaks apart the Boro-hint posts thus far. Calls it a bandwagon.
Quotes one of Lottie's posts and accuses Nerwen and Lottie of being wolves.
Then he goes after Wilwa.

The fact that this is the second time that she said this unsettles me. Her and Nog are usually at each other's throats....Hmmm.....And after reading all of these points brought up about her constant "We have enough time" schpeals, I'm really actually starting to question her motives.

He turns his attention that has been consistently on Nerwen and Lottie to Wilwa who until now has been nothing more than a running joke "I don't trust you on principle, haha." I find it odd that he continually accuses Wilwa (not seriously of course), but questions her motives in regards to Nogrod when she is not doing anything toward Nogrod that he's not doing toward her.

This post makes me leary. I am still quite adamant that she is no ordinary villager...but this makes me lean towards her being a Cobbler and not a Wolf...Thanks for possibly shooting a hole in my Wolf on Wolf theory.

Now the post of Nerwen's he comments on suggests two wolves will distant themselves so as not to leave a line to the other so early. It seems to me he abandons his thoughts of Nerwen as a wolf based on this. Why should she be the cobbler and not the wolf? Why couldn't it be Lottie who was the cobbler in his mind?

Okay, these two posts make me uneasy, but more of "Look at me, I'm the Cobbler" sort of way. No explanation of any sorts from the first post and the second just seems like a "I'm going to just be a menace and make no sense but try to seem helpful" kinda thing...Or maybe that's the delirium again.

This is in regards to Durelin.
Next he goes after Wilwa again saying she's doing a 180 on Boro. To me it doesn't look like she is and rather he's twisting her meaning.

Too obvious to be an outright Wolf confession....and perhaps even a little too outright as a Cobbler...But something just isn't sitting right with me when I see her posts.

Shenanigans.

Suspect
Wilwa
Nerwen
Dury
Lottie

Is this list in order of top suspects? If so Lottie is at the bottom and Wilwa is his top suspect. If not then, well call me Stumpy because I don't have a leg to stand on with this particular post.
Post 6: Votes Lottie

Haven't been trusting her since the start of the game after she jumped on the bandwagon after my bantering comment about Boro and everything else that has been said toDay just made me trust her less.

He had been suspecting her throughout, but in the post before this he seemed to be making a case for Wilwa. Interesting.

I'm moving him to the top of the list because he pushed Lottie out of the tie with Wilwa. Now I have a few theories on this.
Wolf-Wolf: Glirdan and Wilwa are both wolves. Glirdan changed his tune about Nerwen when she stated wolves wouldn't be interacting too much so soon. This could be a plan to say "hey look, I wouldn't have gone after Wilwa on Day 1 as a wolf" should Wilwa die and be shown a wolf. If they're both wolves it would explain why he broke the tie when it seemed like he wanted to vote Wilwa.
Glirdan Wolf- Wilwa Innocent: Glirdan kills Boro at night in the hopes it will make Wilwa look bad today. Obviously Wilwa had just enough suspicion to garner two votes yesterday and Glirdan thinks he can use it to his advantage.

I feel like Glirdan's interaction with Wilwa and his vote for Lottie (vote placement especially) are too neat and tidy. RL is taking him away from posting much, but when he does post the conclusions he comes to are not right to me.

x-post with Nogrod and Pitch

[Isabellkya]

Pitch. Loslote was suspicious of Nerwen over her "evil bantering"; not the entirety of joking. That post of mine that you quote was in response to a Loslote post where she stated that "you can never have too much joking". In response to my sentiments of disagreement, she stated that she had been joking.

Which bugged me just a bit.
It looked like she had not thought about why Nerwen would be "evil bantering" on the First Day if she were wolf, before she voted. Which struck me as odd. Which can be quoted.

What is wrong with optimism? Perhaps you are on the wrong side of the village to appreciate not having a cobbler around any longer.


X'd with Kitanna.

[Kitanna]

Wilwa:
Post 1: Her "ra-ra, go village" post. This optimism seems to have struck a chord with some. Honestly, that isn't that odd to me.
Post 2: Doesn't trust Glirdan on principle, like he doesn't trust her. Banter, banter, banter.
Post 3: Says she doesn't see Boro's "hinting" post as suspicious. Is back and forth on if it's a hint or not, but states she's more concerned with catching wolves not cobblers.
Post 4: Reaffirms not being suspicious of Boro amongst banter.
Post 5: Banter
Post 6: Muffin vs. cupcake, the final battle
Post 7:

I think this is also more likely. Every Day 1 there has to be atleast one person who jokingly says they're for the wolves/are a wolf, when they likely are not, just to joke around and stir the pot and whatnot.

Post 8: Defends Boro's reaction in regards to his post being scrutinized. Defends her optimism from her very first post.
Post 9: Comments on Nerwen's plan of asking everyone how they would act if they were wolves.
Post 10: Nothing of real substance.
Post 11: Comments that lottie's original post suggesting taking hints with a grain of salt weren't troubling, but the more she posted on the matter the more uncomfortable Wilwa was made.

Boro's first post, I don't see anything wrong with it, just a fun story he wanted to share. But afterwards he defended it, then again, then just some little comments here and there and not really much more than that. So I find he spent too much time focusing on something that was not really that big of a deal, and really it's not like someone was gonna vote him just for that, so it didn't really merit the defence. Just seems like he could have said something more pertinent.

This is one of the quotes Glirdan claimed Wilwa was doing a 180 on Boro. She's pretty against him here. However earlier she had defended Boro's defense of himself. But like Lottie's initial post about hinting she changes her mind the more Boro goes on about it.
Comments that pitch is touchy about the silly aspect of the gaming atmosphere. She continues on about the different between jokes and serious. Mostly in regards to Nerwen's "go wolves" comment.

I just find that people are looking at the wrong stuff. We look at votes once we have them, we look at interactions between people, we look at peoples' reactions and suspicions and who they trust, and their contributions and such. We should not be looking at random Day 1 in character banter, or stories about our students or clowns. Just seems like grasping at straws to me.

Some real sense amongst all her silly banter.

So Pitch and Lottie do look a bit off to me, but I think Boro is the worst.

I find it interesting she cites Pitch as a top suspect. Mostly because earlier in this post she says:

Pitch, seems ok I guess

Post 12: Votes for Boro because her aforementioned things. Also she doesn't like that he's voting for her if she votes for him.

From yesterday's posts there's nothing that is overwhelmingly suspicious to me. Wilwa provides a good blend of silly and serious for Day 1. Though she raises my eyebrows because of how she goes from defense to attack (for Boro and Lottie specifically), but it doesn't feel sinister to me. I'm not inclined to trust Wilwa just yet, but I'll be moving my suspicions to the back-burner at present.

[wilwarin538]

Ok, some thoughts.

Durelin's first post today is interesting. She pointed out that Kit was mistaken in saying that Lottie hadn't been on her original list and that she never explained her vote for her, but actually Lottie had been on her list and she did explain her vote for her. Kit, were you perhaps mixing her up with someone else?

Originally Posted by Kit

I find it interesting she cites Pitch as a top suspect.

I think I said I found him a bit off, I didn't really list him as a top suspect. He just seemed a bit touchy about the joking atmosphere, really I don't see anything else wrong with him.

So at this present time I find myself in the situation that I often find myself in. Not having enough suspects. Nog looks good, Pitch looks good, Kit looks good. Izzy and Sally are in my "under the reindeer" category. Dury and Nerwen confuse me, I don't necessarily see them as being suspicious, but I certainly don't trust them either, it's more like I'm having a crazy hard time getting a read on them. Glirdan, well you all know how I feel about him.

So basically at this time he looks worse to me. If I absolutely had to suspect someone else I'd probably go with Dury or Nerwen, since the others I either feel kind of good about or just have nothing at all on them, while these two I'm more on the fence.

Question: was it ever clarified whether there would be a secret role or not? I remember Morsul mentioning at some point that it was possible, but I can't remember if he ever confirmed...

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nog

Anyway, when I came back to the computer and read your analysis of how the Boro-suspicion was born and how it developed it looked to me (on the basis of your analysis) that Nerwen was being the proponent who nicely drove the discussion towards Boro

That may have been in the eye of the beholder, or it may be a case of brevity distorting what I meant to say. Nerwen's part in the Boro discussion wasn't what I found suspicious about her, as most if not all of it was comments on Lottie's posts; I thought that would be clear from the analysis, but obviously it wasn't.
I suppose I could claim in turn that your constant harping on Nerwen's mad wolf cheer fuelled my suspicion, but to be fair, I remembered it myself. Let's just use our own minds and not follow leaders, OK?

Izzy - the way you explain it, I suppose it makes sense. But

Originally Posted by Izzy

Perhaps you are on the wrong side of the village to appreciate not having a cobbler around any longer.

Go back to #146 and read my second and third sentence again. Do not pass Go.

(EDIT: pedantic bolding)

[Pitchwife]

More on Glirdan: I agree that he was twisting wilwa's position about Boro, and while that could be explained (if not excused) by assuming that he skimmed over the thread in a haste with no time to read properly (RL time constraints and all that), taken together with his critical vote for Lottie it does look suspicious.
And I don't really know why, but his whole reaction to the Boro-discussion still just doesn't feel right to me. Now I've got this little hypothetical scenario in the back of my head which I'm gonna put out there for you to tell me if it makes any sense or shoot it down if it doesn't:
- Glirdan jokes that Boro is evil because of his first post
- finds that Lottie is taking his joke seriously and interpreting it as a possible cobbler-hint by Boro; and (assuming for the purpose of this little story that he's a wolf) realizes, "Gosh, she may be right! What have I done?"
- attempts some damage control by attacking Lottie (and Nerwen) for taking him seriously and starting what he calls a bandwagon against Boro
- attacks wilwa because she turned from defending Boro to suspecting and voting him
- votes Lottie because she started the whole wretched affair, and maybe also because it looks less like an open support for Boro than following up on his alleged suspicion of wilwa.
What doesn't seem to fit this scenario is the Night-kill, obviously; except if the wolves
- decided that Boro had already attracted too much attention to do them much good as a cobbler,
- tried to frame wilwa,
- knowingly killed the cobbler because they thought we'd think they never would.
Truly and honestly, I don't know if that makes any sense. You tell me.


-

[wilwarin538]

I have to head out to work now, so I'll be back in about 5.5 hours, that's when I'll vote and such.

[Pitchwife]

Now come on people, where is everybody? Don't make me triple-post! And what crazy game is this anyway where I'm heading the post-count? The world turned upside down...

Originally Posted by Glirdan #127

Too obvious to be an outright Wolf confession....and perhaps even a little too outright as a Cobbler...But something just isn't sitting right with me when I see her posts.

While I obviously agree with his general feelings about Dury (who would have guessed?), I'd just like to point out that this post of hers in itself doesn't look suspicious to me. Some players just take it as a compliment to be feared, regardless of their current role.

(x-ed with wilwa. Oh well...)