T-I-G LXVII: The Rangers of the North - The Fell Winter

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Roa as New Captain

Because she speaks such lovely sense.

[Nienna]

Fea, my love, I cannot figure you out.

[Nienna]

In my opinion we should either stick with Legate or go without a captain. I think switching a captain daily would be sort of a waste.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I think we'd be better off without a Captain, but that would be kind of like a Republic game without a filibuster. If the mod says we can do it, who are we to choose not to?

And so, limit the power. Checks and balances.

If we switch Captains, we can keep any one person from gaining too much power.

[Roa_Aoife]

*sigh* Having read the Admin thread, just forget everything I said about Boromir.

(all that work wasted!)

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Nienna

In my opinion we should either stick with Legate or go without a captain. I think switching a captain daily would be sort of a waste.

The captain still decides ties. But to have one person able to cancel the lynch or change who gets lynched, especially if that person may be a wolf, is dangerous.

[Roa_Aoife]

The people who voted to lynch Hakon are: Fea, Greenie, Inzil, and Mac. Mac and Inzil are known to be innocents, so that leaves Fea and Greenie

The people who voted Rune for captain are: Boro, Valier, Loslote, Rune (), and Inzil. Rune and Inzil are dead, so that leaves Boro, Valier, and Loslote.

People who tried to reason in favor of Rune, but did not vote him as captain: Legate (post 180, 191, 207, 222), Greenie (post 215), Mac (post 197, 220), Lommy (post 185, 236)

Greenie shows up on two lists. And Legate does a lot of very subtle "Rune's probably innocent" suggestions with out committing.

Edit: fixed smiley

[Loslote]

Fea - nothing outstanding.

Nienna - still unsure about her...her actions are a bit off, but I'm not certain that she's wolfish...

Valier - she doesn't seem to be willing to commit to a position. I find her a bit suspicious.

Roa - hasn't done anything that screamed suspicious to me.

Lommy - I didn't see anything suspicious.

Legate - didn't vote for captain, but ended up with the job anyway.

That's not everyone, but that's all I have any thoughts on.

[Roa_Aoife]

So, Loslote, why did you vote Rune for captain? Was it only because you didn't think he was a wolf?


Edit: Bad grammar

[Loslote]

That, and (since I don't know you guys super well yet) he seemed like someone would would be willing to make decisions without worrying about the reaction.

[Nerwen]

Back. Reading.

[Roa_Aoife]

Legate

Post 1- Likes that Roa gets straight to the point, has nothing against being Captain or NG, agrees that we should choose carefully, points out that NG’s are somewhat random

(A sensible first post, mostly agreeing with what’s been said.)

Post 2- Agrees with Nerwen that a wolf as captain could be devastating (if you think that, why would you want to keep Captains for 2 days in a row?), thinks that the wolves would approach the situation subtly (I missed that one in the list of posts that plays down the suspicious nature of Rune’s actions.) Doesn’t understand the Fea/Boro thing, is pressed for time

Post 3- Explains his reaction to the Fea/Boro thing, doesn’t get what Boro was on about, but doesn’t see it as suspicious. Thinks people should let it be. Thinks that wolves would pick on Fea for her actions, but also thinks wolves would pick on Boromir.

(So which is it? If you think that the wolves would pick on Fea, and Boromir tries to pick on Fea, by your reasoning it’s fair to find him suspicious. But to find him suspicious for doing something you said a wolf would do is also something a wolf would do? You contradicted yourself within the space of two sentences.)

Post 4- Says he could join Roa in questioning Boromir, doesn’t think it’s odd that Roa finds Boromir suspicious (So continuing with your line of reasoning, a wolf might pick on Fea, or a wolf might pick on Boromir for picking on Fea. Boromir is picking on Fea, but it’s not suspicious. I’m picking on Boromir for picking on Fea, but I’m not suspicious. You post things that sound reasonable, but your reasoning doesn’t go anywhere.) Is concerned about how easily this could turn into a bandwagon, and wants people to approach it with a clear head, it could be easy for the wolves to turn into a bandwagon, but bad for them if Boromir is a wolf. (So the bandwagon would make it easy on the wolves… unless Boromir was a wolf. You keeping coming down on both sides of the issue. This is really very careful.) Doesn’t want to talk more until more people are around, has a very preliminary idea about Nerwen (guilty or for captain?)

(A lot of talking without really saying anything)

Post 5- Joke about his revelation about Nienna, says the dynamic of his thinking is what it came to, asks Nienna if she’s a wolf

Post 6- Agrees that a wolf would pick on Fea, and a wolf would pick on Boro for picking on Fea, thinks that more evidence should be in before voting on it, agrees that Roa is being quite reasonable, thinks it would be best for the villagers to start showing up and talking, response to Nienna, thinks it’s good to vote someone quiet for the NG

(I can see his point about wanting more evidence. I most certainly did. I still think he was reasoning in circles.)

Post 7- explains to Valier about his question to Nienna

(Again, I can see his reasoning here.)

Post 8- Explains to Valier why we should vote a quiet person as NG: likely wolf kills, bringing people more into the game, they have to change daily

Post 9- Asks Iniz to clarify why he wants Boro to be NG, explains why he chose to ask Nienna about her guilt, didn’t think anything odd about her reply, clarification about rules

(I didn’t get what he was trying with Nienna- wolves and innocents both have a wide range of responding to that question, so I don’t know what he would prove with it)

Post 10- More rules clarification

Post 11- Thinks Rune is acting strangely, but doesn’t think he’s a wolf, asks Fea for reasons for her votes

(I must say, I’m with Boromir on the use of “strange,” “odd,” and “weird.” It’s terribly non-committal. If you think someone is acting strangely, why wouldn’t you suspect them?)

Post 12- Presses Fea about her vote for Hakon, wonders if she thinks his message has anything to do with someone being a wolf (Obviously him. I don’t see what he’s getting at. Surely he could go and see for himself. It’s like he’s looking for a wagon ride.) Thinks he will support Nerwen for something, says Nienna is okay looking, thinks Rune, Boro, and Hakon are weird, but not suspicious (How are they weird, and why doesn’t that make them suspicious?) Is worried about Inzil, but it’s a gut feeling, Valier looks mischevious but could be innocent, Lommy is slightly disturbing but really only if she Hakon are wolves, most people haven’t posted enough. Doesn’t have a clear picture on votes

(Of course there is no clarity in your votes, everything you’ve said in terms of suspicion is “Well, it could be suspicious, but it might not be." You have a lot of words to really say nothing.)

Post 13- Agrees that we should change the captain regularly. Except if we find a foolproof captain, of course, thinks the captain role could help protect the village.

(“We might do this, but we could also do the opposite.” Your posts are all starting to sound the same in your lack of any concrete opinion. Being overly cautious is as bad as being rash.)

Post 14- More excuses for Rune’s behavior, doesn’t think a wolf-Rune would try for captain so obviously (We see how that turned out) still won’t vote him for captain

(You seem really convinced of Rune’s innocence at this point, so why wouldn’t you want him to be captain? Wouldn’t you want someone you believed to be innocent as captain?)

Post 15- Doesn’t want Rune to be captain, but doesn’t want him lynched, thinks the other options aren’t much better. Doesn’t to lynch Loslote cause he’s new, may choose Brinn or Roa for NG

(I thought you wanted someone quiet for NG. I’m the loudest person here. Why me?)

Post 16- explains to Lommy why he wants someone quiet as the NG, clears up rules

Post 17- Disagrees with Lommy, says Kath’s vote looks fine, but doesn’t to kill Valier since she hasn’t been in a game for a while.

(Of all the votes going on, why should he feel the need to comment on this one?)

Post 18- Suddenly thinks that lynching Lommy is a good idea, since Boro voted for her… because she’s weird

(A. Lommy looked like Lommy to me, and B. So Rune being weird isn’t suspicious, but Lommy being weird is. But only after Boromir pointed it out. What, you didn’t think the Hakon bandwagon would take off so you looked for a different one?)

Post 19- Wonders about who to vote for NG since Brinn seems secure

(Brinn wasn’t secure, she wasn’t even in 2nd place. And did you just say “Gosh”?)

(Not that the use of Gosh is suspicious, I just haven’t heard anyone use it since I was in middle school.)

Post 20- Thinks Lommy maybe “emotionally blackmailing” people out of lynching her (I see what you were saying, but she had a good point- arguing against being called weird is pretty much impossible) Votes Nienna NG

(Why Nienna? She wasn't the most quiet)

Post 21- Votes Lommy “But that Rune. Agh. And captain, blah.”

(I’m not sure what you were saying. Confused at Rune’s behavior? Upset that he was made captain? For the first, why not suspect him, then, and for the second, why be upset if you thought him innocent?)

Post 22- Thanks Day 1 ended luckily for us, a pity that Mac wasn’t as successful, thinks Mc’s death might lend us some clues, but also might have been a trail-less kill (There you go again.) Thinks we should look at why Mac may have been killed or why he wouldn’t have been feared as a kill. Also thinks we should look at Rune captain voters, says he and the BG’s agree that a wolf probably voted to put Rune into the lead, points out that the most guiltily voting person was dead, and doesn’t fault Mac for his choice. Will give his impressions of his BG’s later, suggests that maybe we should keep the captain two days so the captain can gain full power

(YesterDay, you said that the role of captain was dangerous, and that we should keep it limited. Now you’ve changed your mind?)

Post 23- Explains his reasoning for his BG picks. Response to Valier, says we still should look at Rune’s supporters.

(Some of what he says is very reasonable, most is only reasonable sounding, while firmly keeping from saying anything concrete. I don't like the way he kept insisting on Rune's innocence while maintaining the appearance of not trusting him.)

Edit: fixed formatting. Also, how is it that no one posts for sevral hours, but as soon as I hit send reply, I've crossed posted with someone?

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm going to bed. I'd be interested to hear what the night talkers thought of each other. And a look at those other people who walked the line between insisting Rune's innocence and not openly supporting him for captain. Legate did this more than anyone, but Greenie did it as well as vote to lynch Hakon, she's next when I get back, unless someone beats me to it.

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, let's not wait till the end of the Day for everyone to start talking, please.

[Nienna]

As one of the night talkers (I was a BG with Fea if anyone missed that) I am pretty trusting of Legate at the moment. With every that he said and the way that he said it I trust him. I know its hard for you all to go on something like that but I don't really know how to articulate it better than that. Fea is a little more problematic. She is on my 'unsure' list. She said some things that make me suspect her and some things that make me think she's innocent. Bah.

I greatly appreciate Roa's analysis but I beg the village to do their own analysis and come to their own conclusions as there is always the possibility that Roa has a role (wolf or cobbler) that would taint her version... or she could just be seeing one thing while someone else is seeing another.

I'm going to sleep now but I should be around more tomorrow morning (my time) for analysis and such.

[Valier]

I too am off to bed. I do think we should let Legate be Captain today.I think hes been making alot of sense and I say we see what he can do. I'll hopefully have time to post in the morning...if not I will definately be here a few hours before deadline.

[satansaloser2005]

Here and have skimmed. (By the way, I was right about Rune. Go me!) Unfortunately, I'm kind of tired so I'm just going to shut off the computer for the night and see what I can do tomorrow. Tomorrow should be really laid back but I'm not making any promises, and I can almost guarantee a lack of analysis from me, but I'll do my best. Until then!

[Nerwen]

R.I.P. Hunters–

Firstly, I'd like to say– well done, Hakon!

And too bad, Mac– but I don't blame you for thinking Inzi was a wolf. I was all ready to make a case on him toDay myself.

And now, my thoughts on the Rune situation.

Originally Posted by Valier

Do you think the wolves planned to be all loud or do you think they are all going to play different roles in the village?

Generally I find smart wolves try not to change their usual playing style too much (unless they're pretending to be another role, like the cobbler). It's a bit of a giveaway.

Originally Posted by Valier

If the wolves already knew what Rune was planning, I am sure they would have planned to have one wolf at least be against him and accuse him of wolfishness to make themselves look good.

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Again, true, but they still want to try for the situation that gives them the best advantage.

Technically you're likely both right– that is, I doubt every single one of the villains would take the risk of openly supporting him. On the other hand, a were-captain would be such a help to the wolves that I can see them pushing for it pretty hard. And of course, with hindsight Rune's plan was evidently "hiding in plain view"... so it could be the wolves are deliberately trying to act atypically.

We'll know what Boro is toNight, which should help clarify things a bit.

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

The people who voted to lynch Hakon are: Fea, Greenie, Inzil, and Mac. Mac and Inzil are known to be innocents, so that leaves Fea and Greenie

The people who voted Rune for captain are: Boro, Valier, Loslote, Rune (), and Inzil. Rune and Inzil are dead, so that leaves Boro, Valier, and Loslote.

What about the Night Guard votes? Did we ever get a Word-of-Mod on whether wolves are neutralised if they become Night Guards?

EDIT:X'd since Roa.

[Brinniel]

Gah...so I just got a small job that requires me to be up no later than 7am, so what little time I had is even less.

I admit I've not thoroughly read all of Day One; five pages is really a lot to catch up on. But I think I have the jist on what's happened. I don't understand how Rune managed to be elected captain yesterDay; if I were there I'd never let anyone who's begging for a role have it. Part of that is because I don't like letting people have their way. But also I don't care if what Rune did is typical for his behaviour; his campaign to get himself elected as captain just looked plain wolfish. True that surely a wolf or two did not vote him as captain to make them look better, but I'm sure at least one wolf did. Due to lack of time, I really won't be able to seek out strong suspicions, but I think the best place for me to start is by looking at the ones who did vote Rune for captain.

I could wait to vote until morning, but I worry I'll run out of time and not be able to so I'll probably just do it tonight...and soon. Again, I apologise for my poor participation (I'm thinking now I probably shouldn't have joined, but apparently I have this addiction problem ), but I will be around a lot more toMorrow as it will be the weekend.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...Rune had five votes. Of those voters, one was himself, one is dead, and one has dropped out. Which leaves Loslote and Valier. Loslote has done a few suspicious things, but I'm hesitant to be quick to vote her since she is new and I do not yet know her style. She is making a decent effort so I think I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt for toDay at least. And I'm not sure Val and Rune would interacted in the way they did if they were both wolves. It seems too obvious for them to do something like that, though I suppose anything is possible. So there goes my voting plan out the window...

So looking elsewhere... the only thing that did strike me toDay was Nerwen's latest post (right before my last post). The first few lines come off as unsincere and it rubs me the wrong way. Looking back at her posts from yesterDay, they rub me in the same way. Just bad vibes, really. Going solely off of vibes is a horrible way to vote, I know, especially when I haven't had the chance to look at most other players. But I'm out of time and really must be heading to bed so I can actually get some sleep.

++Lynch Nerwen

++Roa for Captain

Because I don't find her suspicious and her dedication has proven that she would do well in such a role.

++Kath for NG

Since she is quiet and has a tendency to get killed early.

If I have time, I may check in come morning, though no guarantees.

*passes out*

[Nerwen]

So, I've tabled the votes for comparision purposes

Known innocents are in italics, known wolves are underlined.

BORO
Guard: Inzil
Captain: Rune
Lynch: Lommy

SALLY
Guard: Valier
Captain: Legate
Lynch: Rune

GREENIE
Guard: No-one
Captain: Legate
Lynch: Hakon

INZIL (ORDO)
Guard: Boro
Captain: Rune
Lynch: Hakon

ROA
Guard: Brinn
Captain: Legate
Lynch: Rune

NERWEN
Guard: Kath
Captain: Roa
Lynch: Boro

LOSLOTE
Guard: Boro
Captain: Rune
Lynch: Nienna

RUNE (WEREWOLF)
Guard: Valier
Captain: Himself!
Lynch: Legate

VALIER
Guard: Roa
Captain: Rune
Lynch: Loslote

FEA
Guard: Nienna
Captain: Roa
Lynch: Hakon

NIENNA
Guard: Roa
Captain: Legate
Lynch: Rune

LOMMY
Guard: Valier
Captain: Roa
Lynch: Kath

HAKON (MASTER HUNTER)
Guard: Brinn
Captain: Legate
Lynch: Rune

MAC (BERSERK HUNTER)
Guard: Kath (switched from earlier vote for Brinn)
Captain: Roa (switched from earlier vote for Kath)
Lynch: Hakon

LEGATE
Guard: Nienna
Captain: No-one
Lynch: Lommy

BRINNIEL
Didn't vote.

KATH
Didn't vote.

GWATHAGOR
Didn't vote.


All that voting to do and only two missed votes on Day One? EDIT:Wrong. Brinn didn't vote. EDIT2: Or Kath, or Gwath.

Hmmn... That was a lot of work, but I'm not sure how much can be deduced from it.

Of the living Rune-for-Captain voters (Loslote, Boro, Valier)–

One (Loslote) voted to Guard another (Boro).

One (Valier) voted to lynch another (Loslote). NB: This was the only vote cast on Loslote.

One (Valier) was guard-voted by Rune (wolf).

So, yes, there are quite a lot of connections between them– on the other hand Boro and Inzi would now appear strongly connected were the latter still alive.

EDIT:X'd with Brinn... who I'd forgotten about.
EDIT2:Put in entries for the non-voters.

[Nerwen]

Hmmn. I have no opinion on Brinn so far– I'd semi-forgotten she was playing– but I really don't like being voted for something as vague as "bad vibes".

[Gwathagor]

I just got up to date on toDay's posting. Nothing stands out to me at this point, but I'll be back in about 12 hours, at which point maybe I'll try digging a little deeper. Maybe. At least I'm not posting B.S. lists yet to fill out my post count.

[Nerwen]

The Collected Works of Macalaure

#197

Originally Posted by Macalaure

The nightguards basically work as village-elected ranger protections, so I think it would make most sense to vote for two people who are likely to be killed during the first night. This means we can rule out Loslote, Valier, and Roa, since they're either new or haven't played in a long time, so it wouldn't be very nice for them to be killed right away. Although there are exceptions, the most common Night2-kills are either trailless (most likely), or with the intention to get rid of a dangerous opponent early. The latter is very difficult to predict for us, without knowledge of the wolves' identity, but the former we have a bit of a chance. Villagers who are mostly unhelpful shouldn't be protected, though - why protect someone who has a fair chance of becoming a problem to us? People who appear trailless to us (though, admittedly, other people might look trailless to the wolves), but are helpful (or promise to become helpful later) should be our guards.

On Day1, I would suggest a similar strategy for the captain, with the most suspicious individuals excepted. We don’t necessarily need the most innocent or most helpful or most talkative person in this role (not yet at any rate). Just someone who knows what he’s doing.

Candidates, in my opinion, are: Inzil, Kath, Gwath, Brinn, and Fea. (Nienna and Sally belong in there, too, but I find them suspicious.)

I'm tending towards Kath for captain, Brinn for guard.

Wolves:
I have barely an idea. My only real opinion of anyone is that Rune is neither wolf nor gifted. A wolf wouldn’t be so obvious, a gifted not so eager to be something special. Cobbler or ordo.
This is the reason, why Sally’s bandwaggon vote on Roa’s vote for him looks suspicious to me. Nienna’s vote looks as bad, and she did several things that make my radar ping badly, but by now I know from experience that that’s what she does when she’s innocent. So Sally ranks higher right now.


I don’t understand why it’s a problem if the same person is captain and lynched. The captain has the power to cancel the lynch, doesn’t he? Problem solved. But if the mod rules it otherwise, ok.

#202 [Replying to Roa; subject is Runewolf]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I haven't played with him in a long time, so I wouldn't vote for him on Day1 just because there's a chance he's the cobbler. I absolutely do not endorse him for captaincy either, though.

#213
Votes Kath for Captain, Brinn for NG.

#220

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Rune for captain, I'm not sure about that. Legate or Roa aren't my ideal choices either, but ok.
Valier or Roa for guard is a bad idea, since they are most likely not targets anyway. Boro is not much better. Out of the people who have guard-votes, I'd prefer Brinn, Kath, or Inzil.
Rune for lynch is a bad idea, too. Hakon, well, not sure how suspicious he is, but he hasn't been helpful so far, so it would at least not be the worst loss.

Not too happy with your choices so far, village.

#234
Says he doesn't think Rune is a wolf.

#237
Asks if Captain and NG votes are retractable.

#243
Retracts votes for Brinn and Kath, says he will vote for either Roa or Legate as Captain.

Votes to guard Kath.

Says he might lynch Hakon, but would lynch Sally or Nienna if there was more support for it.

#252

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I agree that Lommy's comments about Boro are a bit strange, but... why would wolf-Lommy make them? Why try to grab the attention of such a vocal player needlessly? Boro is not really a strong lynch candidate.

#259

Originally Posted by Macalaure

++Roa for captain

++Hakon

Explanations tomorrow.

So– here's Mac's recontructed suspicion list:

Suspicious: Sally, Nienna, Hakon.

Neutral: Boro, Fea, Valier, Boro, Lommy, Gwath, Inzil.

Innocent: Kath, Brinn, Roa, Legate, Rune.

(Didn't mention: Nerwen, Greenie, Loslote.)

Somebody earlier toDay called this a "no-trace" kill, but as you see it's anything but, except in the general sense that it points so many ways it arguably points nowhere all that strongly. The main thing it does is, obviously, make Sally and Nienna look bad and Kat, Brinn, Roa and Legate look good.

Considering his defence of a known wolf, though, I'm rather surprised the wolves didn't keep him alive and try to frame him.

EDIT:X'd with Gwath.
EDIT2:Added "didn't mention category to list.
EDIT3:fixed typo
EDIT:Added italics.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

At least I'm not posting B.S. lists yet to fill out my post count.

You're not referring to my list up there, are you?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Really? The rule clarification just makes me want to move captains along more. An innocent captain still stands a chance of fouling things up (and if we're going to foul the lynch up, we may as well foul it up as a village, and not leave the decision up to one person), a gifted captain wouldn't be able to use their abilities, and a wolf captain with that kind of power would be truly devastating. No, thank you. Decide a tie, but more than that is too dangerous.

Well, could be, of course. But my opinion is, if we have a Captain, why not to let him use his power fully. You asked whether I have changed my opinion, I didn't - the rules have changed, or rather, were clarified, so that it means Captain's full powers don't actually come into being if he is not there for two consecutive Days. Of course I still deem a Wolf-Captain will be dangerous. But he will be dangerous whether we choose him for one or two Days. And if we really don't like the person we have voted for, we can vote him away already on the second Day (of course for now, I have no problem with keeping myself on second Day. If I didn't trust myself, I would probably suffer serious problems). Also, if the Captain utilises his vote-change power, wouldn't that say a lot about him? Even if he is a Wolf and does something totally ridiculous with his vote-save, wouldn't he have to justify his actions later to the village? So no, even the Wolves are far from having a totally free ride of misusing power, unless they are totally "who cares" people. (Like Rune might have been, perhaps?)

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

The people who voted to lynch Hakon are: Fea, Greenie, Inzil, and Mac. Mac and Inzil are known to be innocents, so that leaves Fea and Greenie

The people who voted Rune for captain are: Boro, Valier, Loslote, Rune (), and Inzil. Rune and Inzil are dead, so that leaves Boro, Valier, and Loslote.

People who tried to reason in favor of Rune, but did not vote him as captain: Legate (post 180, 191, 207, 222), Greenie (post 215), Mac (post 197, 220), Lommy (post 185, 236)

I am not sure what you mean by people "to reason in favour of Rune", but at least from my part, and I got the same feeling from the posts of all the others you name as well, it was just saying "I don't want Rune for Captain, but I am not comfortable with lynching him either". Mac himself said it quite plainly at one point, and he even thought Rune was definitely innocent, from what it seems to me. Not sure about the others, but to me, it was always just "I don't want Rune to be Captain for sure, but I don't want to lynch him either". That says it all and it's pretty simple, in my opinion. Speaking of that, and I can say it now that Rune is dead, also, personally, at one point I have been afraid that Rune might be a Berserk Hunter (or this Day-killing Hunter) and of course, given that he voted for me, I was worried that he might kill me if he is lynched - that is why I was hesitant in the end for doing anything about his Captainship (as that was something that might have prevented him from dying) or voting for him to be lynched. So you see, there were also personal reasons, where I did not feel comfortable with letting Rune die yet, at least until I get a better picture of him or his role.

To your question which you repeated several times, is it so hard to understand it? Somebody behaves weirdly, but not suspiciously. It does not seem, or make sense (that's what I thought about Rune, of course being mistaken, but that's another thing), or it does not necessarily mean (that's what I think about Boro) that he would be suspicious, or wolf-y. It's a completely different cathegory which has nothing to do with somebody being a Wolf or not.

As for other things. With Boro leaving for the Wilderness toDay, we are left with Valier and Loslote to look at on the list of Rune-Cap voters. With Hakon-lynch voters, I don't really suspect either of those left, at least in other things they didn't seem suspicious to me and also, like I already said to my BGs, I think it's quite easy to happen that innocents could pile up for bandwagon for lynch - probably easier than making Rune Captain. So I will now primarily focus on the Rune-Cap bandwagon, but I again ran out of time, so I need to save it for later.

I really have to leave now, will be back in several hours.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Roa

Lommy (who could start a restaurant with all of her waffles)

Love you, Roa!

I love it how Roa can make anyone look suspicious or inconsistent by analysing them. However, I have to say that Legate is always thinking things rather thoroughly (and arguing in circles) but I must agree with Roa that he has been maybe a bit too careful even for himself. Personally, I don't see anything too bad about him - I'm sort of undecided as you can see - but I wouldn't want him as a Captain anymore.

Firstly, because he was never really even voted to be the Captain, he just became the Captain because the elected Captain happened to die (and I must say that surprised me because I - wrongly - assumed we'd be without a Captain in a case like that). Ok this might not be the best of reasons, especially as our elected Captain was a wolf, but still for the sake of democracy, I'd rather have someone really elected for the position (and of course that doesn't disinclude Legate being re-elected).

Secondly, and more importantly, because I don't think anybody should have power for too long. It's not only dangerous but also a bit useless. Legate had his chance to be protected and appoint people to PM with and talk with them, now let's give someone else to have the chance. (In a way, I see it as rather selfish to ask for another Day of Captaincy, or eyebrow-raising in the least.) The village benefits the more we have different people PMing and thus forming ideas of each other every Night. And like people have said, it's not good to have a wolf captain or a gifted captain, so it's safer to change them regularly.

And lastly, I don't trust Legate or his judgement so much that he'd my top choice for a Captain, so I will cast my wolf (I'm leaving that typo there because it was so funny, I of course meant "vote" ) for someone I'd rather see as the Captain. (And don't interpret this as if I was discontent with Legate or his judgement or disapproving of stuff he's done this far, I would value him above the average in a choice for captaincy, but he's not my top choice now, especially as he's already been a Captain. I call for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Legatum! )

I need to analyse and think of stuff more, but to me Mac appears as a sort of safe no trace kill, possibly suspected ranger (he was sort of innocentish yet rather refrained and careful, so I could see someone making that assumption). Of course, wolves need to watch out for the hunters in this game, but it's not so bad for them with the master hunter gone, so it does make to take Mac's opinion of people into account but maybe not too much. (This would make Sally and Nienna look more innocent and Kath, Brinn, Roa and Legate look more guilty. It is funny that Nerwen arrives to the opposite conclusion.)

Valier is looking rather bad right now. I agree with Fea that her posts don't look genuine at the moment, and her interactions with Rune were rather fishy.

And speaking of her - Valier, did you talk with Boro at all last Night? If yes, was there anything special you two came up with?

Also - would our Night talker like to come forwards and tell who did they PM with and what kind of impressions they got from each other? (Assuming that the Night talker and his/her companion are alive.)

As my last note - I'm around right now for at least another hour, but once I go I'm not sure if I can be back. I have work and then I'm going to go to a meeting of new Art History students so it might be that I won't be back before the DL. Sorry for not being around enough, but this week Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday have been just hectic and with my luck two of them have been ww Days...

[Thinlómien]

I'm considering voting Roa for Captain.

We need another Captain, and Roa happens to look relatively innocentish, have some support and be someone whose judgement I generally trust.

However, I'm worried if we should vote her. Why? Because I think it might be difficult to wrestle her out of that position of power. I think people would be generally happy with her leadership because she's so active and, well, charismatic, and seems to make a lot of chance. (later addition: <- meant "sense", not "chance"! what's the problem with my mind today? )

What's the problem with her staying in power if people are content with her captaincy? 1) The fact that she might be a wolf or a gifted. 2) One person shouldn't have too much power, especially if it's someone like Roa. 3) It's the most beneficial to have changing captains.

All this rambling aside, I will probably vote her for Captain, but I want people to think about this stuff.

[Thinlómien]

++Nerwen for Night Guard

She could be anything. She gives me sort of cobblerish vibes, so I don't exactly mind taking her Nightly powers away.

She does not seem too wolvish that I'd be wary of protecting her for the Night, but she's definitely unsure enough on my list that I'd light to give her the scrutiny a Night's PM contact with another player can bring.

And if she's innocent, she's the sort of person who could make sharp observations about her PMing partner.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Of course, wolves need to watch out for the hunters in this game, but it's not so bad for them with the master hunter gone, so it does make to take Mac's opinion of people into account but maybe not too much. (This would make Sally and Nienna look more innocent and Kath, Brinn, Roa and Legate look more guilty. It is funny that Nerwen arrives to the opposite conclusion.)

You misunderstand me... or maybe I wasn't clear enough. I should have put the word "look" in italics or something. I was trying to work out what, if anything, Mac's death might have accomplished for the wolves. (i.e. I basically had the same conclusion as you.)

EDIT:X'd with Lommy's last post; added comment.
EDIT2:In fact I believe I will put it in italics.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

You misunderstand me... or maybe I wasn't clear enough. I should have put the word "look" in italics or something. I was trying to work out what, if anything, Mac's death might have accomplished for the wolves. (i.e. I basically had the same conclusion as you.)

By which did it accomplish that Sally and Nienna look more guilty?

In case it hasn't been phrased clearly enough by anyone toDay, I call for a Captaincy Vote. (Just to make an official statement, but I don't think it has to be done because people have already cast new captaincy votes.)

++Roa for Captain

Now I'm off to use my last half an hour or so for solely determining who's guilty.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, a list:

Innocentish
Fea - she's difficult to judge, but for now she has been speaking so much sense that I feel more comfortable with her than with most
Nienna - seems genuine and Mac's death points at her innocence

Positive Middle
Sally - I'm rather unsure because she seems both innocent and guilty but neither to an overt extent, possibly leaning a bit to the innocent direction because of Mac's death, but I wouldn't want to make a hasty conclusion considering someone whom I'm so confused about
Roa - I know I said I think her innocentish and voted her for Captain but to trust Roa (especially as early as on Day2) is not something I'd do without reservations, so I'm putting her here instead of the innocentish category also to remind myself not to be lulled into false sense of security because of her general charisma and ability to make sense and good points
Legate - the more I talk about him, the more confused I get, but there's nothing too bad yet
Gwath - has been under my radar quite a lot but then again he seems perfectly okay when he posts

Negative Middle
Kath - I'm still vaguely uncomfortable with her but to be honest I must say she hasn't done anything incriminating
Greenie - she makes me uneasy because she's so sticking to what she always says about people (look at her list from yesterDay), but no actual alarm bells are ringing
Nerwen - like I said, no idea, but seems slightly cobblerish
Brinn - I have to confess she's been under my radar more or less completely, and that scares me

Guiltyish
Loslote - voted Rune for a Cap and I believe at least one fellow would've probably done so, otherwise nothing too bad
Valier - what I said about Los, and also the fact that her tone toDay does seem insincere, somewhat reminding me of past valierwolves

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Someone asked what the Night people thought of each other.

I didn't trust Legate at all. I currently trust him quite a lot more, but this stems from confusion with rules which I need to double check. Yet again. *grumbles about complicated rules* Once I have time (if I have time) I'll check on this and get back to you.

I am neutral about Nienna.

Either way, it's not hard to trace my feelings about Captain: I didn't vote for Legate, and first thing this Morning I voted for a different Cap. Sorry, LeDoor, you just don't have me convinced that you have the village's best interest at heart.

++Lommy as Guard

Curiosity.

I'm not sure how much I'll be around today. Things to do, places to go. I'll try to be around before deadline.

Note to self: *must* check those rules.

[Thinlómien]

Haha, just realised my list is quite beautifully symmetrical. Nice. But it's good to notice I suspect half of the village at least a bit, because normally I have problems finding suspicious behaviour.

++Valier

is the best suspicion I have.

I might yet be back, and if I am I may change my vote if the situation or my opinions have changed. But for now it should be ok.


edit: xed with Fea - and thanks for the vote, I guess

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

By which did it accomplish that Sally and Nienna look more guilty?

Yes– not meaning that they're actually gulity, but that it might be an attempt to make them look that way, though as a frame it would only be a weak one. EDIT: Is the point you're making that a lupine Sally or Nienna would have been too afraid to attack Mac, in case he was a Hunter? Sorry, I'm being rather dense at the moment. I'm tired.

As you see we're getting into double-triple-quadruple bluff territory now. That's the trouble: my hunch is that he was probably killed for a reason, rather than being a no-trace kill, but there's too many possible reasons.

I think it probably would be a good idea to switch Captains often, but I don't know about every Day. I think we could stick with Legate for another Day... I mean, your plan, Lommy, seems to be ensuring that the Captain never uses his full powers.

EDIT:X'd with two Lommys and one Fea.
EDIT2:Clarification.

[Thinlómien]

Happened to come back and see Nerwen's post -

actually yes, I have nothing against having a Captain if it's someone whose judgement I trust (and there are all kinds of beneficial side-effects), but I don't want to have a fully powerful Captain: there's no one I'd like to give the right to potentially overrule the village's decision, not even myself.

Now I'm gone for good. Bye!

[A Little Green]

All right, I'm here.

Originally Posted by Roa

The people who voted to lynch Hakon are: Fea, Greenie, Inzil, and Mac. Mac and Inzil are known to be innocents, so that leaves Fea and Greenie

The people who voted Rune for captain are: Boro, Valier, Loslote, Rune (), and Inzil. Rune and Inzil are dead, so that leaves Boro, Valier, and Loslote.

People who tried to reason in favor of Rune, but did not vote him as captain: Legate (post 180, 191, 207, 222), Greenie (post 215), Mac (post 197, 220), Lommy (post 185, 236)

Greenie shows up on two lists. And Legate does a lot of very subtle "Rune's probably innocent" suggestions with out committing.

Originally Posted by Legate

I am not sure what you mean by people "to reason in favour of Rune", but at least from my part, and I got the same feeling from the posts of all the others you name as well, it was just saying "I don't want Rune for Captain, but I am not comfortable with lynching him either".

Yeah, Legate pretty much summed up what I was about to say about "trying to reason in favour of Rune". As for voting to lynch Hakon, my reasons were weak but the best I had. (And now, of course, I know they were wrong.) What I find interesting is that the Hakon-voters and the Rune-voters (I'm talking about lynch votes) actually had quite similar reasons for their suspicion ie. finding an open will to become Captain suspicious.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

GREENIE
Guard: No-one
Captain: Legate
Lynch: Hakon

Whoops, it seems I was really not at my best yesterDay seeing as I also forgot to vote for a Guard (and only noticed it now...) I promise to try harder toDay!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Greenie - she makes me uneasy because she's so sticking to what she always says about people (look at her list from yesterDay), but no actual alarm bells are ringing

I know! That's always the problem with me, especially early in the game. For example, I don't think I'd be that lousy at reading Brinn if I wasn't so conscious of how bad I am at reading her... As for seeing that as a sign of suspicion, well, all I can do is use the worst argument ever: that's what I always do, regardless of my role.

[A Little Green]

Oh, and about the Captain: I'm fine with keeping Legate. I voted him for Captain in the first place because he seemed innocentish and sensible, and in addition to that I'd like to see what he does as Captain. I think what most of us have overlooked is that a player's actions as Captain can really tell a lot about the said player. I agree with what seems to be the general consensus that we should keep changing Captains regularly. I have nothing to say about the full Captain powers as I'm not convinced either way.

Also, I'm not entirely comfortable with having Roa as Captain. I think I already said something about this yesterDay. This has nothing to do with suspecting her (she's in the very middle of my no idea -category, in fact) nor with disliking her playing style (as I like it a lot). It's just that she's a very influential player already now, and I fear that if she was elected Captain this village might be in danger of becoming too much led by one person alone.

[Nienna]

I agree with Greenie about captains.

Here is a quick analysis of Nerwen:

42. Answers one question from Boro’s quote, says we need to take the Captain thing seriously and is suspicious of those people who actively say they want to be captain

Wolf-Nerwen on Bold-Wolf-Rune? Doesn’t feel like it.

43. Doesn’t know what Fea and Boro are doing or why Fea shed her retractables

Popular opinions

96. Defends Fea’s use of her retractions on Boro, asks Legate why he picked me to ask about innocence and what he concluded.

Seems fine

128. Says the problem is that anyone who would make a good captain would also make a good were-captain. Votes Roa for captain as she has more leadership qualities than Rune, votes Kath for NG as it seems the wolves like to kill her off early

Both these seem reasonable

143. Says that Hakon is being weird

149. Says that Hakon has to be a wolf eventually but she thinks that if he was a wolf his pack mates would have advised him against doing what he did.

I’m not really sure what “he did” that is being discussed which worries me

160. Votes to lynch Boro because of the Fea thing, has no other real suspects except Hakon but doesn’t want to vote him because of what happened last game

She did have some suspicion of Boro so this seems fine though it almost feels like she is trying to get the village to suspect Hakon without voting for him herself.

263. Makes a very weird midNight post on the game thread.

Very weird.

298. Congratulates Hakon for a job well done, makes a good point about wolves trying to not change their playing style from normal, makes a point that the wolves may not have wanted to openly support Rune but having him as Captain would have been such an advantage that they probably pushed for it

Very good point about the wolves, though congratulating players for helping the village can feel superficial

301. Wonderful vote table, shows connections between the Rune for Captain voters. She makes Val and Lottie look bad but then reminds us that Zil would have looked guilty too

She seems like she is trying to give us as objective view as possible

304. Puts all of Mac’s posts together. Notices that killing him would make me and Sally look bad while making Kath, Brinn, Roa, and Legate look good, mentions she’s surprised the wolves didn’t leave him alive to frame him.

I agree.

310. Clarifies her previous post and agrees with Lommy that because killing Mac would make Sally and I look bad we look more innocent

In conclusion: Nerwen is looking more innocent to me than guilty. She makes some good points, says logical things about players, tries to be objective (or at least make it look like she is trying to be objective)… basically she is going on my leaning innocent list but I will continue to look at her.

[Roa_Aoife]

Firstly, it is not Legate’s reasoning in circles that I find suspicious. We all do that to some degree (just look at how we're talking about Mac). My point in this is that he’s doing it a bit much and needs to pick a direction. Being overly cautious only helps yourself and not the village.

Secondly, by “reasoning in Rune’s favor” I mean people who were trying dissuade others from lynching him while not openly supporting him. While one wolf may have openly voted to make Rune captain, others may have been more subtle. When they saw the votes to lynch him building, they would have tried to change direction in the lynch by either putting up a different candidate, or talking down the points against him. Legate did the later more than anyone else. Over and over in his posts after Rune started to garner lynch votes, he reiterated the idea that Rune was probably innocent and shouldn’t be lynched, yet he never openly said that we should trust Rune. And he managed to sway people. I don’t see how anyone could NOT find that suspicious.

We shouldn’t keep a captain two days in a row. And Legate, by suggesting we keep you on, aren’t you doing essentially the same thing Rune was doing yesterday? I don’t believe you are gifted, because a gifted cannot act as a captain and is therefore useless. So, at best you’re an innocent after power, and at worst a wolf trying to get full advantage over the village.

Nienna, Hakon was found guilty for doing the same thing Rune did- declaring a desire to be captain. He said it oddly, but it was the same. I also suspected him for that reason.

Which of course means that those people who thought Hakon was guilty but not Rune look more suspicious. *coughGreeniecough*( You’re analysis is coming.)

Also, it's possible that Mac was killed because he's a strong player who tends to survive. Further more, the wolves probably suspected that our Rangers would have protected the more quiet people. So Mac was not a likely Ranger pick. It's possibly that he didn't strongly suspect a wolf, but don't forget a that a wolf is probably in his neutral group as well.