Tol-in-Gaurhoth LXIX: Were-Librarians

[Macalaure]

It just occurred to me: both of the tricks that Boro pulled were related to gifteds. Coincidentally, the central purpose of the snitch is to sniff out gifteds for the librarians. The guise of the ordo trying to trick librarians is too convenient.

No, Boro, you won't change my mind. You've been risking the lives of four very powerful gifteds that, provided a bit of luck, could win the game on their own. If you really are innocent, then we indeed differ in opinion once more. If you're innocent, then your approach is dangerous and does not merit the faint chances of catching a librarian, especially not because a hapless ordo is more likely to fall for your trap than a real baddie. I remember, long ago, an evil Eomer trying something similar: pretending a wolf-trap, have an ordo fall for it and then get that one lynched.

Lynch Boro, says I.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'm going to put some Mac and Cheese in my system, when I get back, final thoughts on innocents/guiltys and my vote.

Are you hinting to the librarians to put some Mac and Cheese into their system during the Night?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Are you hinting to the librarians to put some Mac and Cheese into their system during the Night?

I didn't even realize that until you picked it up...seriously I'm eating Mac and Cheese, there's no secret hint. I messed up the day I was supposed to go out and eat dinner why my mother, and have come back to my apartment in need of food. I can take a picture if you'd like? Kraft, whole grain, the cheesiest and put it up here, maybe it will get it through that stubborn head of yours.

When I'm finished with this bowl I'll get to what I said I was going to, tie Mac to a chair and ignore him. I won't duct-tape his mouth though, if I do, whenever that tape comes off, it will be far worse.

[Boromir88]

Can't believe I did this...*shrug*

[Macalaure]

I see I should have used two ""'s.

crossed with Boro... Hookbill! We need you here!!!

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I see I should have used two

crossed with Boro... Hookbill! We need you here!!!

To edit the picture and make it look wolvish? If I recall last time Hookie distorted one of my pics I was innocent and the one who posted it...morm was a wolf. *shrug again*

Wow I really need to get to something constructive...

Edit: oops I forgot that dude wasn't me but some random guy I said was me...

[Formendacil]

Now... I'm torn... I don't claim to have an instinctual feel of how Boro plays, but him being noisy, excited, and too touchy is, I think, typical enough that none of the alarms are going off.

But...

But...

He's really taking this "mac and cheese" thing to heart. And I can't decide if it's an Innocent that's revelling in post-Kentian* ability to give us silly pictures of himself... or if he's a wild-eyed cobbler revelling in his tailor-made role... or a wolf that's trying too hard.

I don't lean towards the last, and the other two are indistinguishable, half the time, until the endgame or postgame. And while I agree with Mac that we should bag a Cobbler if we can, and call it a victory, I still think there's hope of catching the real thing.

To this end, I'm especially thinking of Brinn, chiefly for the reasons Nessa gave in voting her, and I'm not averse at the moment to doing the same. If anyone has a reason not to, now's the time to talk me out of it.



*To the unaware newer members... it's a long story. The synopsis is that Boro has not shared pictures online for most of his several year BD membership.

[Boromir88]

Form, I wanted to show I really was eating Mac and Cheese, no secrets or tricks in there, and to try and get through Mac's stubborn-ness. Because well, I think he's innocent, and just barking up the wrong tree.

This is a matter I take to heart when my honor is at stake, if you want to read through Fea's republic, I got very touchy with other people for the very thing...for which I apologized for, but it's frustrating when I don't think others 'get me.'

Mac says what I do is dangerous to the gifteds, but I disagree. I've tried to look like the seer many many times when I'm an ordo, because that is my way of trying to draw the wolves away from the real seer. When it's successful I'm very happy, and if it's not I would argue I don't put the real seer in danger at all. No seer has complained about what I do, and it continues to be successful to me, so I continue to do it. When it's not I'll admit it...no problem with saying I fail.

With the Ranger thing, I stated my reasons in this thread, so I won't repeat them.

Now...

Mac, I think his attacks on me are a misled innocent. For the most part, as I stated earlier I agreed with his analysis, besides a few people. All I can say is I think he's being entirely unreasonable towards me, but can't realy fault him, as I'm so darn stubborn too.

For now, I believe Nerwen, Shasta, and Nienna are innocent. For reasons stated earlier, mainly the sally votes...wouldn't put it past a wolf-on-wolf, but today there are better leads (which I will get into below).

I'm watching Hakon, but for today the sally vote makes him look innocent.

autume and Brinn are no where to be found. Brinn stated she would be less active at least the first couple days, but there is no reason to believe she will not make an appearance, and for now I will grant her time to 'hear more.'

I'm growing more wary of alonariel, based on the jump against me. Her post saying I was too defensive, and backing away by almost saying it was no big deal looks wolvish. Form has attempted to play the moderator between us...which makes him look innocent, because any wolf would like to see two heavy weights duke it out. Could be what a wolf-Form expects me to think, but I'm more suspicious of alonariel's apparent support for Mac, but then trying to pass it off as just innocent questions for me and Hakon.

If I haven't mentioned you above, I simply haven't remembered and haven't been giving much thought about you...so basically neutral.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

This quote seems Phantomish and I don't like it, especially since Fea was barely around Day 1.

This relates to the fact that the last two games or three games I played in, I was a wolf that was dreamed of on the first (or close to it) Night.

I mean... It's not arrogance so much as dead on truth: I get dreamed of.

Sidenote: It's really hard to play this game with Lari and Mira talking behind you. [/sidenote]

Okay, so now that I've finally caught up... I have very little to say except that Hakon is making n00b errors about telling who he suspects is a gifted, Boro is remaining reasonable...

Actually, that's about all I retained.

I think I'm supposed to be dying a friend's hair...

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Form, I wanted to show I really was eating Mac and Cheese, no secrets or tricks in there, and to try and get through Mac's stubborn-ness. Because well, I think he's innocent, and just barking up the wrong tree.

I understand this... the mac and cheese thing was purely a slip of the fingers, completely and utterly unrelated to the game. It's just the energy of the matter that has me thinking.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

This is a matter I take to heart when my honor is at stake, if you want to read through Fea's republic, I got very touchy with other people for the very thing...for which I apologized for, but it's frustrating when I don't think others 'get me.'

Your point, about actively flushing out the wolves is well taken. I have no issue with the point, from a purely philosophical standpoint. The thing is, though, I'm also a philosopher enough to admit to myself that I can't tell any difference between a worked up Boromir who's innocent, and a lupine Boromir who might be leading us down the garden path.

For what it's worth, I don't think you're a wolf, and since I do incline to think Brinn is a wolf, you're not likely to get my vote today... and depending how the vote goes, who dies tonight, etc, etc, we'll see how the longterm views you.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Mac says what I do is dangerous to the gifteds, but I disagree. I've tried to look like the seer many many times when I'm an ordo, because that is my way of trying to draw the wolves away from the real seer. When it's successful I'm very happy, and if it's not I would argue I don't put the real seer in danger at all. No seer has complained about what I do, and it continues to be successful to me, so I continue to do it. When it's not I'll admit it...no problem with saying I fail.

The fact that you're so irritated Mac can't agree with you on this point amuses me to no end, and somewhat raises your stocks in my mind. It is, as I see it, almost exactly like myself and Nogrod when we happen to play together. If we're both innocent, we'll destroy each other by Day 3 because we think exactly the opposite in terms of strategy and philosophy about this game. In other words... good luck with converting him!

Anyway, although I'm easy enough to lure into these theory-of-the-game arguments, I think (remembering Nogrod...), we may be arguing ourselves away from the wolves at this point. I don't think Mac is a wolf, and I don't think Boro is a wolf. I guess this means I ought to move on to someone I DO think is a wolf.

[Hakon]

All this talk of me making newbie errors bothers me. Oh well I will move on for now.

I have a gut feeling telling me that Alona is the snitch but reading these posts makes me think it might be Boro. I am almost one hundred percent sure that Boro is not a wolf. I am a bit suspicious of Form. He is a bit like Inziladun was in the last game. He is offering great opinions and thoughts but all the while he might be blending in better than any other wolf. I know it is not good reasoning and it will probably get called a noob error but I am just sharing my thoughts.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

This relates to the fact that the last two games or three games I played in, I was a wolf that was dreamed of on the first (or close to it) Night.

I mean... It's not arrogance so much as dead on truth: I get dreamed of.

Sidenote: It's really hard to play this game with Lari and Mira talking behind you. [/sidenote]

Okay, so now that I've finally caught up... I have very little to say except that Hakon is making n00b errors about telling who he suspects is a gifted, Boro is remaining reasonable...

Actually, that's about all I retained.

I think I'm supposed to be dying a friend's hair...

I know, but it's still Phantomish and thus annoying. I don't think it says that you're a wolf, I just think it's... annoying.

[Nienna]

Brinn is making me the most nervous right now. Her vote yesterday looks really suspicious. She basically jumped onto a bandwagon (for me) and gave me the leading vote. This seems like a wolf attempt to keep a bandwagon for a non-wolf going so that their fellow wolf doesn't get lynched. Nerwen and Shasta's vote after that for Sally then look innocent.

[Boromir88]

Top Chef Masters is coming on, so sorry with no Tivo available, that will take priority over this and I will return.

One more comment..

I am a bit suspicious of Form. He is a bit like Inziladun was in the last game. He is offering great opinions and thoughts but all the while he might be blending in better than any other wolf. I know it is not good reasoning and it will probably get called a noob error but I am just sharing my thoughts.~Hakon

That's really not bad reasoning at all...I would ask you to consider that there is a difference between Form this game and Inziladun last.

It's been a long time since I've seen Form in one of these (I'm afraid all I remember are his epic battles with Nogrod). Right now though he's looking like the voice of reason between two polar opposites. Which, with Mith not here, I'm kind of glad to have in this game. Now he could be using this, as a wolf, to his advantage, and like I said it's not a bad reason to suspect someone.

I will point out the difference though, Inziladun pretty much got involved in irrelevant, small matters, like talking about whether wolves would openly like blood or not. Form was jumping into something major and moderating. I wouldn't expect that from a wolf, I would expect the wolves to want the heavy weights to keep throwing haymakers at eachother, Form hasn't done that though...he's stepped right in and well I'm quite glad, because now I can relax, and admit to going overboard with that pic.

Edit: crossed with Nienna

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I'm growing more wary of alonariel, based on the jump against me. Her post saying I was too defensive, and backing away by almost saying it was no big deal looks wolvish.

And the fact that I voted for Mac on the first Day? I won't deny it does look like I've been siding with him, but not purposely so. I only backed down after you explained yourself because I didn't want to give you any more reason to be on the defensive. It seems like you've been getting into a heated match with Mac as it is

As for Brinn, I'm not sure her silence points towards her being a librarian, but she is one of the people I'm watching for wolvery.

Hakon just popped up, but where is Autume?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I just think it's... annoying.

Your mom is annoying.

[Hakon]

Now now, Fea and Shasta play nice or the wolves will eat you tonight.

Since I have to go soon I will make my vote now. I am going to run off my hunch that Alona is the snitch and vote her. I know it is only a gut feeling but still.

++Alona

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by alonariel

As for Brinn, I'm not sure her silence points towards her being a librarian, but she is one of the people I'm watching for wolvery.

I concur on both counts.

[Brinniel]

Here again. Almost forgot about the Day (whoops)...

My vote for Nienna was based off a hunch I picked up from the tone of her posts. Disagree if you want, but it was my opinion and I don't regret it. Meanwhile, I actually did find Sally suspicious...but I found her so obviously wolfish I figured she probably wasn't one... Funny how one of the few times I make a sincere vote on Day 1, it looks suspicious. Go figure. Though reading my post, I can kind of see why you see it that way. Though the same could be said for many other players.

So Nessa voted me based on a comment of Fea's about me? And now it seems Formy will vote me based on that vote. Okay, whatever.

But if that's how you feel go for it. I feel a bit guilty for my lack of being around and when I am, I'm too lazy to read some 100 posts thoroughly...so I probably deserve getting lynched. Anyway, if you all mutually decide to vote me, I'll probably just commit suicide because I'm goth and all. It'll make for the perfect narration.

Okay, now trying to be useful...

Nerwen's defensiveness makes her look more innocent to me. Hakon seems like just a confused newbie. If he is a wolf, he's taking advantage of his status and I'll be disappointed. Nienna's vote does make her look more innocent. I wonder if there were any wolf-on-wolf yesterDay. Possible, but considering how close it was, it would've been a risky move...especially for Day One.

No one else really rubs me one way or the other just yet. I have to get off the computer now (since I'm sharing one), but will be back later to vote. I'm clueless to who that vote will be for, but I hope it won't take too long to decide since it is time I lack. :/

X-ed since #173: Ooh, so now Nienna might vote me too? Yay! Go me.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by alonariel

As for Brinn, I'm not sure her silence points towards her being a librarian, but she is one of the people I'm watching for wolvery.

Brinn did say on the Admin thread that she preferred if the game didn't start until tomorrow (Thursday), the implication being that she was not going to be around much before then, but since she's playing anyway, I assume she isn't completely absent. In any case, it is never fair to discount a wolf on the basis of quietness. One or two of us have been indicted over the years on account of getting unusually giddy and posting too much, but Brinn, at least, has carried off the quiet, unassuming, lupine killer role before, if my memory serves.

And, really, the way this game is going, I think I'm finding myself exonerating mentally everyone in proportion to how much they're talking. It's not that Boro and Mac are innocent... but there's so much more reason I can grapple with to convince me they might be. Autume, to reflect the other side of the coin, is a big, black, question mark.

EDIT: x-ed with Brinn.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

So Nessa voted me based on a comment of Fea's about me? And now it seems Formy will vote me based on that vote. Okay, whatever.

Wait... what? I don't remember this. I don't remember actually saying anything about you... What did I supposedly say?

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Brinn did say on the Admin thread that she preferred if the game didn't start until tomorrow (Thursday), the implication being that she was not going to be around much before then, but since she's playing anyway, I assume she isn't completely absent. In any case, it is never fair to discount a wolf on the basis of quietness. One or two of us have been indicted over the years on account of getting unusually giddy and posting too much, but Brinn, at least, has carried off the quiet, unassuming, lupine killer role before, if my memory serves.

I can sympathize with not having enough time. The main reason I've been posting so much today is because I stayed home sick from work

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

Wait... what? I don't remember this. I don't remember actually saying anything about you... What did I supposedly say?

Here:

Originally Posted by Fea

Brinn -> Nienna - this vote puts Nienna in the lead before Sally and is obviously suspicious. I might be paranoid, but her reasons look a bit fabricated.

I wasn't terribly concerned with your comment since you tend to suspect me early, but Nessa jumped on it rather quickly.

Originally Posted by Formy

Brinn, at least, has carried off the quiet, unassuming, lupine killer role before, if my memory serves.

I have been quiet before as both an innocent and wolf, so my role doesn't have an impact on how much I post. I'm usually quiet because I lack time or I don't have anything worthy to say.

Okay, really have to go now...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Wait... what? I don't remember this. I don't remember actually saying anything about you... What did I supposedly say?

Nessa only mentioned Mac making a comment about you, not Fea, Brinn.

Edit: X'ed with Alonariel and Brinn. That comment was made by Mac, not Fea. At least according to Nessa.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Nessa only mentioned Mac making a comment about you, not Fea, Brinn.

Wait, am I mixing the two up? If so, it must be because Mac's new avatar confuses me. *smacks self*

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Funny how one of the few times I make a sincere vote on Day 1, it looks suspicious. Go figure.
...

Okay, whatever.
...

It'll make for the perfect narration.

....

Yay! Go me.

Is anyone else somewhat spooked by Brinn's flippant response to her somewhat-threatened lynching?

I realise I tend to base my judgements of people's roles in this game entirely too much on my read of their character--which means the newer the player, the more out to lunch I can be--but this seems ridiculously out of character for Brinn--or an innocent Brinn anyway.

An innocent Brinn, I'm thinking, would be royally ticked off at us for planning to kill her RIGHT before she can get more involved in the game (Brinn is a WW fiend, last I checked). So why is she so casual?

Because Brinn is an old hand at this, and won't make the same mistake Sally did. She won't overreact, go into hysterics, and try to argue her way out, beyond the brief acknowledgement that:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Though reading my post, I can kind of see why you see it that way

Which, if you ask me, is probably the sneakiest way to deflect the questions: don't focus on them, acknowledge them, and pretend they're minor.

It's all just a little too smooth for me... Rather than allaying my fears, as I expected a defensive Brinn to do when she finally got a chance to come online, this Brinn is cheerfully ready to go to the gallows, if that's what we decide.

Funnily, though, no mention of how it's not going to help the village any if we're down an innocent...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Funnily, though, no mention of how it's not going to help the village any if we're down an innocent...

I would have thought that would have been obvious... funnily enough, I don't see you mentioning the same thing in regard to Nerwen and Fea earlier in the day, this not-mentioning-the-obvious.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I would have thought that would have been obvious... funnily enough, I don't see you mentioning the same thing in regard to Nerwen and Fea earlier in the day, this not-mentioning-the-obvious.

Given that I didn't really reply in depth to either Fea or Nerwen, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Granted, that was also a bit of a throwaway line, tacked on because it occurred to me at the last moment, and agreed with the general tack of the post as it was already being composed--but hardly a serious argument in its own right.

It is, of course, quite ridiculously obvious. Maybe it's just the sense I get from Brinn--which is what I was trying to emphasize--a sense of slightly forced "the devil may care." Brinn's actions would have seemed normal to me, early in the day, when things can go one way or another, but we're into the homestretch now, and it just seems like she's trying too hard to blow us off the scent.

[Macalaure]

I still think Boro is the snitch hiding behind the mask of a tricksy ordo. If you don't think so, have it your way. Let's hope his help to the librarians won't be crucial, or that I'm wrong.

None of the people I thought were innocent earlier managed to change that, except that I'm a bit wary of Form. I see no reason to go after Nessa or Fea either, which leaves Brinn and autume. Autume hasn't shown up yet. Not sure what to do with Brinn. Her defensiveness doesn't make me feel better. I like Form's points.

And yes, that was my comment, not Fea's.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Form

An innocent Brinn, I'm thinking, would be royally ticked off at us for planning to kill her RIGHT before she can get more involved in the game (Brinn is a WW fiend, last I checked). So why is she so casual?

Could be an innocent Brinn who hasn't had time to invest properly in the game, and is an ordo, so doesn't particularly care? I find Nessa's points against Brinn to be good, but this makes me think you're pushing a little hard for a Brinn-lynch.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I intend to vote tonight for somebody with the least amount of posts, either Hakon or Nessa. Since I don't have a solid wolf suspect, I prefer to rid the village of quiet unknowns while we still have the numbers to safely do it.

[Macalaure]

I'm about to fall asleep, so I will have to vote now.

Autume hasn't been around, so I don't think I'll vote for her.
Brinn I suspect of librarianism most right now, but I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt since she will likely be more active toMorrow.

That leaves Boro, but only because of the special power of the snitch.

++Boromir88

I hope you will end up lynching one of these three in the end. Don't do something... hasty... while I'm asleep.

Oh, Fea, if you're really only after the quiet ones, consider Autume, too, please.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Formy

An innocent Brinn, I'm thinking, would be royallyb ticked off at us for planning to kill her RIGHT before she can get more involved in the game (Brinn is a WW fiend, last I checked). So why is she so casual?

In all honesty, because I've lost my enthusiasm for WW in the last couple months. I'm trying, but I'm not sure why it feels like such a struggle. I want to play, but I just can't get myself to be my usual thoughtful self. Maybe it's the heat. Or maybe it's because I'm short on time and it's a bit of an effort to post at all (and I feel bad I'm stealing someone's computer for this). I'm sure I'll be back to my old self in the fall, especially considering the environment I'll be living in.

I feel stupid enough as it is that in the little contribution I've made, I managed to mistaken identities. Still, I blame Mac for changing his avatar. I can't remember him ever changing it before, so why confuse me now?

If you lynched me I'll not be too concerned since one wolf is already out of the way. Unless I have any strong suspicions for another contender, I'd rather see me go than a more helpful innocent. But still, I must admit I find all this bandwagoning against me a bit ridiculous.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Oh, Fea, if you're really only after the quiet ones, consider Autume, too, please.

It's funny... in order of least participation, it goes Nessa, Hakon, Nienna, Brinn, autume, etcetera. But what's funny is that I can think of things that Nienna posted, and Brinn, a bit, and Hakon, and Nessa (though I remember more what Brinn said about Nessa than what Nessa said)... but I can't think of a single thing that autume has said.

*is thoughtful*

[Nienna]

Though Brinn is high on my suspicion list I'm going to give her one more day to have more participation. I'm not thinking that Mac or Boro are particularly guilty even though they were at each others' throats. I agree with Fea though that I'd rather lynch someone who isn't participating.

Hence:

++ Autume

Goodnight.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++Nessa

For a negligible post count.

[autume98]

Sorry I haven't been around. RL got a little crazy today. Just got caught up in reading some of the posts. Looks like a lot has been happening especially between Boro and Mac.

Not sure what to think of Brinn. I can understand being busy yet at the same time her vote yesterDay does look suspicious.

Edit: x-ed with #193 to this one

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Mac

Brinn I suspect of librarianism most right now, but I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt since she will likely be more active toMorrow.

Actually, chances are I won't be here at all toMorrow, not even to vote. Well, maybe I will in the first hour of the Day if I must. After that I should be posting more frequently, up until the following Monday (the 17th)...but chances are I'll be dead by then.

I'm tired and really ought to vote soon. Fea feels alright to me. Formy's persistence against me feels a bit odd, but not enough to vote for. I could vote Nessa since I feel her jumping on someone else's suspicion is suspicious. Or I could go with Fea in voting for a quiet player even less helpful than I've been.

EDIT: X-ed since #194

[Formendacil]

Funnily enough, Brinn's explanation for flippancy almost convinces me... but not quite. Or, rather, barring Brinn I haven't got any wolf-candidates, and while I approve of culling the silent, I can't quite justify it when there is the possibility of a real wolf.

I'd intended to stick around longer--like yesterDay--but that wrought havoc with my cold last time I did that, and I have two days yet to work this week... best not to risk it.

++ Brinniel

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Vote Count

Nessa - Brinn (Brinn1)
Hakon - Alonariel (Brinn1, Alonariel1)
Mac - Boro (Brinn1, Alonariel1, Boro1)
Nienna - Autume (Brinn1, Alonariel1, Boro1, Autume1)
Fea - Nessa (Brinn1, Alonariel1, Boro1, Autume1, Nessa1)
Form - Brinn (Brinn2, Alonariel1, Boro1, Autume1, Nessa1)

I will likely vote for Mac, Boro, or Form today - the former for suspicions talked about earlier, the latter for his insistence on a Brinn-lynch based on very shaky ground, and the median for his gifted-exposing stunt earlier.