Two Towers Time Line

[HCIsland]

I was reading through the transcript of the Two Towers and thought I would take a shot at putting the events in the movie into a reasonable timeline. I was surprised to find that it didn't work that bad. The only thing that seemed to clunk was Galadriel's speech with Elrond when she said, "The young captain of Gondor has but to extend his hand to take the Ring for his own and the world will fall" when it is implied that she is talking with Elrond about whether to send elves to Helm's Deep. I couldn't get this conversation to take place after Frodo is captured and still have the elves arrive in time. If one takes a little artistic license though and takes it more a naration as opposed to an actual event (which may have been half the intent) it works fine, though I know others will balk at this.<P>Anyway, <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/hcisland/tttime.htm" TARGET=_blank>here it is</A>. I'm sure it will stir up a hornets nest. Sting away.<P>H.C.

[Eruwen]

Did all of that really happen within a matter of 14 days? Very cool though.

You ought to read your literature, kid. Your timeline fails from the start, I'm afraid. In the second editions of the books published by harper collins a timeline is found in appendix b. I can see your theory is based on the movie. shame on you. Frodo and Sam for an example never went to Osgiliath. The Two Towers spans over a period of 12 to 16 days, dependant of who you're following; Frodo/Sam or the others.

[dragoneyes]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>thought I would take a shot at putting the events in the movie into a reasonable timeline.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This was purposfully done from the movie to see if ot fitted as well as the books.

[HCIsland]

Ascahil, I think reading is perhaps something you should brush up on ... kid.<P>As for the timeline; just having fun and certainly don't expect it to fit as tight as the book. Actually, though reading is something I think I'm pretty good at, counting is apparently a different story. If you read the timeline I made some mention of the Fellowship taking four days to go from Lorien to Amon Hen. Oops, make that nine, though I believe they were taking their time. I was partially using that to get a guess on how long it would take the elves to get from Lorien to Helm's Deep. Any thoughts out there?<P>H.C.

[doug*platypus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> a guess on how long it would take the elves to get from Lorien to Helm's Deep <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You could calculate all you like on a likely time (Unfinished Tales would be a help, where the marching of the Númenóreans is described in detail), but even if you did arrive at a viable answer, PJ wouldn't care. There isn't even a plausible explanation for Éomer riding north, or Faramir suddenly deciding to let Frodo go (without provisions). They certainly don't care about a minor detail like the timeline. You're wasting your valuable time, HC.<P>Ascahil may have been blunt or rude, but I think made a good point. Precision was left in the books. When the filmmakers decided to deviate so heavily from them, they left all such consideration for detail behind.

[Manwe Sulimo]

I soooo disagree, doug.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> they left all such consideration for detail behind <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Did you see any of the documentaries on FotR or TTT? Did you see how much detail they took care of? They didn't deviate because they wanted to, they deviated because if they didn't, there would be no plausible script.<P>And what's the point of having a movie forum if you're "wasting your time" doing this kind of thing? Believe me, there have been a lot more pointless things in the other forums.

[The Saucepan Man]

Hmmm ... I think that HC's purpose in posting this thread (in the <B>Movies</B> forum, I might add) was to highlight that, although the film does generally work within a realistic timescale, it seems implausible that the Elven army would have been able to get to Helm's Deep in time.<P>I think that it is a thoroughly valid point. I mean, more than enough time has been spent on other threads debating the (real and imagined) shortcomings of the film. Although it is a fantasy film, most intelligent viewers still want it to be logical. My main gripes with TTT are where it appears not to make sense. And I must admit that this point did occur to me when I saw the film the first time. It doesn't work.

[doug*platypus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Did you see any of the documentaries on FotR or TTT? Did you see how much detail they took care of? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Propaganda, my son, propaganda pure and simple. I haven't seen all of the self-congratulatory documentary footage, and would appreciate enlightenment as to details. But I have seen many cases of the filmmakers haughty attitudes, where they say things along the lines of "I'm a big fan of the book," or "We improved on the book in this scene," etcetera, etcetera. Which is fair enough, it was a monumental task at which they performed well, and only hindsight in the distant future may reveal to them where possible errors were made. Many writers of fanfiction on the Downs ask for comments on their work. It is impossible to be a critic of your own work, because you can never look at it objectively.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> they deviated because if they didn't, there would be no plausible script. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> plausible <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>There's a word that won't hold up very long in the face of TTT in particular. Try chanting it over and over as you watch, observing with disappointment how much less applicable it becomes with each passing minute. Many parts of the movie are <B>not</B> plausible, and most of the deviations have served to confuse the story rather than streamline it. They got carried away with changes and forgot why they should have been making changes. Once again, ego triumphed, as the filmmakers decided to show their own version of the book rather than translate it faithfully. Think Planet of the Apes. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but why couldn't they be more honest about their disregard for the source material?<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> You're wasting your valuable time, HC. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sorry, young Calvinite, this was both unfair and untrue. I appreciate the lengths you went to to produce the timeline, and I'm glad that you posted a link here on the Downs for us to check out. I daresay the movies could have made use of someone like you as a factchecker, and then there would be less fallout to deal with.

I'm sorry. I didn't get your point. Now, that I do, I can see it's a good one. Shows what happens when deviations, even small ones, are done. The story lose its grip. Again, sorry.

[HCIsland]

No sweat. I was likely a little snippy in my comeback anyway and probably could have explained it better at the beginning.<P>As for my purpose, I really didn't have one at first. It just seemed likely something fun to do (though others are likely dubious as to what I consider fun). I wasn't thinking of the likelihood of any event, just whether they could fit together. To be honest, it worked better then I thought. I figured the detour to Osgiliath would be a problem but it wasn't. In fact there were only two problems that I could see.<P>1. It seems Merry and Pippin were with Treebeard for four days before Entmoot started. I guess they got the royal tour of Fangorn. Hope they didn't overdue he Entdraught. <P>2. When did the elves leave Lorien to get to Helm's Deep? I guess this all comes down to what did Galadriel know of Rohan's danger and when did she know it? There are four days between when Theoden decides to go to Helm's Deep and when the Elves arrive there. Is that enough time? Probably not, though I was trying to make it fit. You can argue that she knew of Saruman's purpose long before that, though perhaps not the particulars of Helm's Deep. Maybe the decision to send Haldir and the archers was made shortly after the Fellowship left Lothlorien and that Haldir only heard about Theoden seeking refuge in Helm's Deep upon arriving in Rohan.<P>Of course, if I'm going to allow myself to be a slave to the book none of this works anyway because Lorien has their own problems and wouldn't be sending the elves in the first place. I'm letting that go in order to see if the events presented in the movie conflict with eachother, not with the book.<P>I'm not trying to slam the film. I still greatly enjoy it. I believe I understand why the changes were made and I am not convinced (unlike many) that if PJ had stayed closer to the book it would have made a better movie. To be honest, I think PJ and the other writters are thinking about this stuff though I believe that when it comes down to what they think will be better for the film, they'll ignore a plot point that only 5% of their audience will catch. I'm cool with that. <P>H.C.

[HCIsland]

Well I took my Towers Timeline and extended it back to the beginning of Fellowship. There is some note worthy messaging that occured, but for the most part, it worked out pretty well.<P><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/hcisland/tttime.htm" TARGET=_blank>Jackson Films Timeline</A><P>H.C.

[Finwe]

Honestly HC, don't worry about any naysayers on this forum. I think coming up with a timeline was an excellent idea, just because it was a way of trying to see what events fit where. You should be applauded for that effort, not scolded. <P>Somehow the 20 miles per day pace of Haldir and his Elven contingent seems rather slow. Perhaps it's just me. But could that slightly "slow" pace have sulted from having to dispatch a couple of Orc patrols and a couple of skirmishes around Lothlorien, and on the way to Helm's Deep?

[Essex]

Where jackson falls down is that he does not understand the nuances of coincendence. People say that tolkien's writing is too full of coincedence, but I believe these are plot events that can be explained when you delve into the books. In the films there are just too many coincedences that cannot be explained.<P>Having the elves turn up just in time for the begining of the battle does not work. Against this, having gandalf and erkenbrand turn up in the nick of time in the book DOES work, as we can see that Gandalf has planned the events to a tee. (working also with treebeard, huorns etc)<P>PS, why on earth does Galadriel call the alliance in the prolouge the 'Last'. Surely in this film, it should be Penultimate? Oh hang on, we're sure to get elves at the pellenor fields and the black gate, so even that won't work!