Where did Tom go?

[burrahobbit]

<BR>Is it just me, or is Tom Bombadil vital to arming most of the hobbits? How could trees be shown to be becoming more &quot;Entish&quot; as Treebeard says without Tom to save the hobbits? Does not the Eldest (or maybe it was Oldest, I forget) living thing in Middle-Earth deserve at least ten minutes of screen time? <p>What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

<BR>Tom Bombadil</b><br><br> You know, I totally agree. That's exactly what I've been saying all along. But is it a final decision, or just a rumor ? That's what I'm wondering. <p></p>

[burrahobbit]

<BR><br><br> It's final as far as I know. <p>What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

<BR><br><br> Goodday everyone, <br> <br> I've been out of the loop for a while but is Tom not appearing at all in the movie? And if so wouldnt that dirsupt virtualy the entire book as he saved them in the downs? <p></p>

[burrahobbit]

<BR><br><br> He isn't in any of the movies at all. And yes. Yes it would. <p>What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

<BR><br><br> I am assuming that they won't get into the trouble that requires them to be saved. <br> <br> You bring up an interesting point Kris</b>.....maybe it is just a rumor......maybe the rumor was even started by the powers that be at New Line......maybe they knew that fans would go nuts if ol' Tom was left out, and they are saving it as a surprise for us. As the date of the release nears....say around this time next year.....they will start another rumor that ol' Tom is back in!! It would be a brilliant piece of marketing (would that be the correct word?) on their part. <br> <br> Man, almosts settles the fears, doesn't it? <br> <br> Cool, I'm a spirit</b>.....can you see me or no? <p></p>

<BR><br><br> That would be one real cheap tactic... if they suddenly tell us Tom is back in...<br> <br> How are</b> they going to work around him? <p><hr>IronParrot</b>, administrator of <a href=http://pub4.ezboard.com/bnicktheshadow>Nick the Shadow</a> and <a href=http://pub3.ezboard.com/btomorrowzeworld>Tomorrow, Ze World!</a> and moderator at <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/bbenjaminstolkienboard>Entmoot</a>, is famous for wearing pens on his belt and is currently (ICQ #22843402).<p>I'd put a witty quote here, but most of my best ones can be found <a href=http://pub4.ezboard.com/fnicktheshadowmiscellaneous.showMessage?topicID=40 .topic>here</a>.<p></p>

[galpsi]

<BR><br><br> Well, at least we'll all be spared that absurd story about badgers and their queer ways. And did you really want to see Sarah Michelle Gellar as Goldberry? <p></p>

[burrahobbit]

<BR><br><br> Would have been better than Liv Tyler as Arwen. *shudder* What the hell kind of name is Liv anyway? <p>What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[galpsi]

<BR>Liv</b><br><br> Abreviated latinate. <p></p>

[burrahobbit]

<BR><br><br> Oh? <p>What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[galpsi]

<BR><br><br> Yes, short for Lividula Talentae. <p></p>

[burrahobbit]

<BR><br><br> Oh. Well then, still an odd name, but I would like to formally retract my comment about her name. I would still want to see someone else as Arwen, though. <p>What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p><i>Edited by <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000062>burrahob bit</A> at: 6/23/00 2:53:21 am<br></i>

[Suldaledhel]

<BR> I Hope Tom is in!</b><br><br> I personlly hold Tom Bombadil to be one of my favorite characters. I hope that this topic is about rumors and nothing more!!! I agree that Tom is needed in the movie especially to arm the hobbits and introduce that the trees in Middle earth are more than they appear! I do not see why Tom is being left out of the film i believe he plays a valuable if not vital role in the movie. If he is not shown, then where did Frodo get his dagger he used on weather top??!! I think that Bombadil would also be a successive comic relief character that would appeal to younger crowds. As always you are entitled to alter my opinion and please do so!<br> <br> Goodbye and farewell wherever you fare, and may your eyries recieve you at the journey's end!! <p></p>

[Wizard of the Secret Fire]

<BR> Re: I Hope Tom is in!</b><br><br> I really seems like if Tom is gone, all sources say that (like E! Online). It is really sad <br> <br> From E! Online:<br> <br> <i> Who's playing Tom Bombadil? <br> Carlos Fernandez, Madrid<br> Sadly, Tom didn't make the cut. Charming and rustic though he may have been, Mr. Bombadil fell victim to the time constraints involved in translating novels into films.</i><br> <br> <br> I really hope that they keep at least one scene or two from the Old Forest...and the Barrow-Downs, it would look great on screen... <br> <br> <br> The dagger debate have I heard so many times now. Easy solution for PJ: Let Aragorn bring them and tell the story about them. <p>"You cannot pass. I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor." <br> <br> Usually guarding <a href="http://www.theoldforest.cjb.net">The Old Forest website. </a></p> You can find all information you need about Tolkien and the new Lord of the Rings movies there. Feel free to visit the recently re-started EZ Board, <a href="http://pub9.ezboard.com/btheoldforest29887">The Bonfire Glade</a></p></p>

<BR> Re: Where did Tom go?</b><br><br> I think if Tom and Goldberry are not in the film, I would like to at least hear about them and what the fellowship encountered after (Tom and then the barrowdowns episode) just so people that HAVE READ THE TRILOGY can follow the story. Somthings just CANT be left out unless you leave out a lot of stuff, then it will just Suck and I WONT PAY A DIME TO SEE THE MOVIES OR BUY MERCHADISE.period...<br> Of course its just my opinion, you dont have to like it. <p></p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<BR> Re: Where did Tom go?</b><br><br> I understand you feeling, Neldoreth. I just don't share them. I'd go see these films if the left out Frodo... just so I could talk about how bad they were! But honestly, these films are going to be fine without Tom, not perfect, but OK.<br> <br> btw.... welcome to the board! <p>The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)<br> I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[lindil]

<BR> Where did the knives go?</b><br><br> the wizard has the solution to the swords, if I may be allowed to elaborate: <br> ... Aragorn reveals himself from behind the door ,as Barliman stands w/ mouth agape .then dramatically flashes back his cloak revealing.... a private collection of arnorean weaponry, including 4 large knives a collapsable longbow, a slingshot w/oo9 gauge pellets and an inflatable catapult ...'I have to have some back up's since the one my dad left me is in peices'...he says showing them the shards of narsil..'not much use is it says Sam',suddenly realizing why the shifty stranger had such a bulky cloak... <p></p>

[Suldaledhel]

<BR> Bombadil vs Arwen</b><br><br> I feel that the role of Arwen should be reduced to as it is in the story and Bombadil be brought back. After all dont we all agree that Arwen's role has been inflated too much??!! And the dropping of Bombadil is an outrage!! I think that the to should be reversed if anything. Or at least mention Bombadil or something of that sort.<br> <br> Goodbye and Farewell wherever you fare and may your eyries recieve you at the journey's end!!!! <p></p>

[lindil]

<BR> Re: Bombadil vs Arwen</b><br><br> I am 100% with you .<br> this was debated rather furiously at the Xenite board and I was suprised at the number of well read tolkien fans could postulate dropping one and dubiously embelishing the other , I was a persecuted minority .[I deserved most of it though] any way I can [sadly ] understand that unless they are going to make 7 movies they can't fit all the sub-plots in and I must [sadly again ] agree that the old forest/bombadil episode is an obvious choice for deletion[no barrow downs-a bitter blow for this site ]<br> however exactly likeyourself it could come in for mention [maybe as a dream of frodo's that Gandalf reads as he is recuperating in rivendell- even just a quick glimpse of him at the downs and the willow and giving those swords top the hobbits.would take , I guess,less than a minute and yet maintain the integrity of the tale.<br> the latest I heard was that liv was doing so poorly that much of her embellishment was axed [ this comes from Pro-warrior Arwen M.Martinez himself so it isn't wishful thinking -even if it turns out a rumour- but we can only hope. <p></p>

[Samwise of the shire]

<BR> Re:I disagree and agree</b><br><br> RELAX PEOPLES,TB is not importent he's only mentioned twice and seen once I mean sure he suplies the hobbits with info on the trees- the hobbits dont get it though,Merry and Pippin are all talking about fangorn and treebeard scares the heck out of them-,so saying TB is importent is like saying Bergil is importent -both have jobs, bergil finds the athelas but Merry could've, TB tells them about the trees but the hobbits could've met strider and he could've told them.-so it doesnt really matter.And as for Arwen going into battle and all I entireley agree she's supposed to stay in rivendell and weave a banner for aragorn,not do anything else, and I read a rumor that she kills the Nazgul,not Eowen and Merry<br> Samwise<br> ps lindil that one post about the weapons was hilarious <p></p>

[Lady Eowyn]

<BR> Tom</b><br><br> I can't believe I missed this discussion for a whole year. *sigh<br> I gotta say, that I'm not really sad that they left out Tom. He is annoying and weird<br> evertime I read the books I wonder what the heck his singing is about. I think it's not <br> too bad that they left him out. I'm gonna miss the scene with the Wight though...<br> <br> And about that Arwen thing: IT DISGUSTS ME. Leaving Glorfindel out for her....<br> makes me mad every time I think about it.... <p></p>

[Elenanna]

<BR> Re: Tom</b><br><br> I knew about Glorfindel but i had no clue about tom. So there gonna leave him out? WHY?!!! If tolkien was alive he'd be disgusted to. and the arwen thing, why are they putting her in, what is she doing exactly? Also the thing about Rose Cotton she gets married to sam in the end so why involve her more?<br> (sorry if this has already been discused, but i'm rather uniformed about the movies <p>Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p>

[Mister Underhill]

<BR> Re: Tom</b><br><br> <blockquote><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> If tolkien was alive he'd be disgusted too. <hr></blockquote>I disagree with this. In discussions in <i> Letters</i> about plans for an animated movie adaptation of LotR, JRRT clearly favored abridgement over compression &quot;with resultant over-crowding and confusion, blurring of climaxes, and general degradation&quot;. I think he'd rather have seen scenes that aren't crucial to the main story go rather than include them in a compressed, diminished form that also took valuable time away from the real important stuff. <p></p>

[Lady Eowyn]

<BR> Re: Tom</b><br><br> I think I've read somewhere that they expanded the part of rose, so the people<br> understand what her realtionship with sam is. I mean before the end of the<br> book she isnt' mentioned anywhere. So I think they just expand it so non-readers<br> understand it better.. <p></p>

[red]

<BR> Re: Re: Tom</b><br><br> <blockquote><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> ...but i'm rather uniformed about the movies.<hr></blockquote><br> <br> That's what I'm here for, Elenanna! There is a whole movie section at the Downs. Or if you have any questions, just post them here!<br> <br> Long live PJ!! <br> <br> -réd <p><blockquote><p>"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer."</p> <p>-A Short Rest, <i>The Hobbit</i></p></blockquote></p>

[Elenanna]

<BR> Re: Tom</b><br><br> mr. underhill i sort of agree w/ u, but i'm sure he wouldnt want tom to be skipped out! He was a main element of mystery in the LotR. and if theyre cutting him out whats happening about a)old man willow, b)the barrow downs? Are they cutting those out to? if so as i believe was posted b4 how wil the hobbits get their swords?<br> ps i see your point on rose lady eowyn <p>Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p>

[Elanor]

<BR> Re: Tom</b><br><br> Personally I'm not keen on Tom Bombadil, with all the annoying singing and so on. I don't think I'll miss him too much in the film - I mean, there's so much else to show as well, that'll keep us watching.<br> <br> As for Arwen, I don't like the sound of the pumped up role, but I'm prepared to reserve judgement until the films are released.<br> <br> I think PJ had to increase the women's roles a bit, as a film with nearly all male roles, and nearly all screen time to the male actors would put off a lot of audiences, especially the ones who are not die-hard fans.<br> <br> <p></p>

<BR> Re: Tom</b><br><br> Elanor: I totally agree with you on the Arwen thing. We should wait until the movies come out before we decide. Personally, I'm kind of happy that they're expanding Arwen's role, at least a little bit. I've always kind of wished that she were a bit more than just a mostly behind the scenes character. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000361>Elwen</A>&nbsp; at: 3/19/01 1:36:41 pm<br></i>

[The Dagda]

<BR> Re: Tom</b><br><br> Tom fulfills two vital roles in the story. First, he helps to give us a sense of mystery and a sense of the long past ages of Middle Earth, and early in the story. It is stated that he is eldest, older than the trees or elves or anyone else. He is unexplained, though it is strongly implied that he is powerful and important. His singing is far from annoying, and if that is one's reaction to the two chapters of the Fellowship Of The Ring in which he appears, then one is not reading very carefully. He is mostly incapable of communicating in a manner other than verse or song, but song is the oldest language in Tolkien's universe. In the novel, the singing is a device to imply Tom's ancientness and connectedness to the higher beings. In film, devices other than song might be used, such as an archaic speech pattern. Second, he provides the 4 hobbits with safety from the Nazgul who hunt them and would surely catch them if not for the &quot;short cut&quot; through The Old Forest, and he provides them with the Numenorian swords which play such an important part in the struggles against the very same Nazgul. Aragorn has no knowledge about the plight of the Hobbits, and has no way to know how many hobbits would be on the road. If he is to simply supply the four hobbits with their swords, how does he know how many to carry with him to Bree? Frodo and company are very green behind the ears and have little experience of travel and danger so for them to escape Old Man Willow and the Barrow Downs with no assistance will seem unbelievable, or make the dangers, including the Nazgul, seem less dangerous. Here Tom fills an important role and helps to advance the plot.<br> <br> My wish is that Tom Bombadil is in the film, with the Old Forest, Old Man Willow, and the Barrow Downs (not to mention babe-a-liscious Goldberry).<br> <br> My hope is that the film will retain The Old Forest and the Barrow Downs even if they delete Tom, so that the plot runs smoothly and the hobbits can gain their ancient Numenorian swords and their temporary escape from the Nazgul. <br> <br> My fear is that all these scenes will simply be deleted, and we will simply rush from Bag End to Bree in a matter of minutes, with no explaination of the swords (like the Bakshi film) or worse, a stupid plot device like Aragorn simply providing the weapons for the hobbits. <br> <p></p>

[Elenanna]

<BR> Re: Tom</b><br><br> Yes, i wish that could happen too, but i have reason to believe that arwen will be involved in this as well:"> , i'm not sure if it's true or not though. <p>Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p>

[Aldaron]

<BR> Re: Tom Bombadil</b><br><br> Probably all of us are going to be disappointed with one part or another missing or not played right in the movie, according to our thoughts. I like the Tom Bombadil portion of the book immensely but I can see that it doesn't play a major role in moving the Ring along to its doom. We'd love to have everything in the film, every last bit of dialogue and action there is. But a film has a finite amount of time it can expect an audience to sit still, and it had better move along plotwise, or people will get up and walk out. So we'll have to be grateful for what we get and hope it is done well. <p></p>

[The Dagda]

<BR> Re: Tom (and Glorfindel)</b><br><br> Well then why include Helm's Deep, or Fangorn Forest, or anything else beside Frodo's and Sam's journey into Mordor, if all we are concerned with is the movement of the Ring to its doom? At least the Ring is present in the Bombadil chapters and the Glorfindel chapter.<br> <br> I myself cannot see the point of deleting Glorfindel. How much time is saved by doing so?<br> <br> We'll all see for ourselves, but it appears we will fly from Bag End to Bree in a matter of minutes, with a few encounters with some of the Nazgul along the way, in order to make room for Arwen being at the Ford and wherever else she is written into. Whatever. The Lord Of The Rings may be filmed in New Zealand, but it is still a Hollywood movie, so why expect more from it?<br> <p></p>

[Elenanna]

<BR> Re: Tom (and Glorfindel)</b><br><br> You make good points Dagda! Anyways cutting Tom Bombadil does more than just entirely skip the Barrow Downs, the Old Forest and his house. In the Council of Elrond what are they going to do? You need to know about Tom to understand what they talk about, about how it doesn't affect him and why they won't give it to him. You have to meet him to understand that, and it will make a large rent in the fabric of Tolkiens' work if they just cut that out with no explanation. Tolkien would</b> disappointed if he knew that <u>Tom</u></b> was being cut out. Not so much Glorfindel, although I agree with Dagda about there being no point to cut him out, but he isn't as important as Tom, who is quite vital to the plot, his roots are spread throughout the story. <p>Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000112>Elenanna </A>&nbsp; at: 3/25/01 12:37:35 am<br></i>

[Gilthalion]

<BR> Re: Tom (and Glorfindel)</b><br><br> In the animated version, Glorfindel was replaced by Legolas.<br> <br> I have no real problem with Arwen replacing him.<br> <br> I will miss Bombadil, however. But Underhill is right. Bombadil can be cut, the story can be abridged, and the audience will not miss it or even be aware of the problems we raise.<br> <br> They can receive their Numenorean swords at Rivendell for example. Escaping the Barrow-wight is more problematic, and will probably be cut. (sigh) <p><center> <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">Barrow-Downs</a>~<a href="http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000">Bare Bones</a>~<a href="http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhir">Tar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~<a href="http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000/gilthalion.html">Grand Adventures</a>~<a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.asp">The Hobbits</a>~<a href="http://www.tolkientrail.com">Tolkien Trail</a> </center></p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<BR> Re: Tom (and Glorfindel)</b><br><br> That part of the book was a farce, anyways! Those little hobbits would never have gotten away from me! Ha! Me afraid of Bombadil. It is to laugh! <p>The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)<br> I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[red]

<BR> Re: Tom (and Glorfindel)</b><br><br> &quot;Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight!&quot;<br> <br> And he did. <br> <br> -réd <p><blockquote><p>"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer."</p> <p>-A Short Rest, <i>The Hobbit</i></p></blockquote></p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<BR> Re: Tom (and Glorfindel)</b><br><br> History is always written by the victor (I was on the losing side). But I left that barrow because Tom wrecked it, not because I was scared of him. But I was screaming mad. <p>The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)<br> I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Elenanna]

<BR> Re: Tom (and Glorfindel)</b><br><br> Gilthalion:How did they fit Legolas in there? (I haven't seen the animated version) You didn't answer my question about the Council of Elrond, and if they keep the bit about Tom in the Council of Elrond then the audience <i> will</i> notice, and be confused. Any Tolkien fans that've read LotR will miss it. I don't <i> mind</i> Glorfindel being cut either, I just don't see the point. There is another point I want to bring up: In Gondor, when Denethor sees Pippins' sword, he sees that it's from Gondor and asks where Pippin got it from... I don't know the exact details as I'm recalling this from memory, but I hope you see my point.<i> Why</i> would there be swords from Gondolin in Rivendel? There's no point! They have <i> elvish</i> swords, what would be the point in keeping Gondolish swords when the kings put them in their barrows?!!<br> <br> RKittle: Tom only totally destroyed the barrow after the wight dissapeared. If you weren't afraid of him then why didn't you fight him off instead of fleeing right when he came? <p>Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000112>Elenanna </A>&nbsp; at: 3/25/01 9:23:19 pm<br></i>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<BR> Re: Tom (and Glorfindel)</b><br><br> I was tired of that barrow. I'd been in it for what seemed like forever. I already had my new barrow set up, Bombadil just sped up the process.<br> <br> That still doesn't give him an excuse! I wasn't bothering him! <p>The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)<br> I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>