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01-04-2004, 01:29 PM | #1 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Why side with Sauron?
I looked this up but I didn't find anything. Why did the easterlings and the other evil men side with Sauron? Did Gondor and Rohan do something to them to make them side with Sauron? Did Sauron have more to offer?
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Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig? |
01-04-2004, 01:36 PM | #2 |
Haunting Spirit
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three possible answers
1. They figured Sauron would win so why not side with him? 2.gold and glory 3. when Sauron had the ring, he took over those lands and made them "slaves to his will"
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"Fool of a Took!" |
02-26-2004, 01:34 AM | #3 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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i agree with the dark elf .
the dark lord wanted servants for his army but he could take servants from the west the passages of the rivers were controlled by minas tirith. so he looked in the east and found the haradrim and the easterlings. there would be three reasons why these people joined the dark lord:- 1. the dark lord conqurered their lands and demanded that they serve him or die. 2. the dark lord offered them to rule the territories in the west which he would control. 3. these people the easterlings had enimity with minas tirith.
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02-26-2004, 09:24 AM | #4 |
Wight
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Troll's larder
Posts: 195
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You know, the enmity between Gondor and men of the East had been around long before Sauron took refuge in Mordor? The people of Gondor and Arnor (North Kingdom) were descended from the Numenoreans (Men of the West). In their heyday, the Numenoreans wer great Mariners and explored many places in the Middle-Earth. But in the latter days, they became corrupted by their pride and fear of death. Their last king, King Tar-Minastir, landed south of the Bay of Belfalas, a place called Umbar. (Yes, that the place were the Corsairs of Umbar came from) The Numenoreans mixed with the Haradrim people there, and became used to their evil customs. Those Numenoreans were called Black Numenoreans.
Anyway, there had always been bad blood between those the people of the East and those of the West... When the Dark Tower was broken in the Second Age, there had been invasions of Gondor by the Easterlings, Wainriders, and Haradrim even though Sauron had been cast out of Mordor. |
02-26-2004, 04:45 PM | #5 |
Haunting Spirit
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Hot, crispy nice hobbit is right; the Haradrim and the Easterlings would have taken any opportunity to fight against Gondor and Rohan, even if it meant siding with Sauron. I suppose they figured Sauron, considering how powerful he supposedly was, would in no way lose the war, so they were in on a pretty good deal. ^_^
Of course, we all know what happened there.... |
02-27-2004, 03:46 AM | #6 |
Wight
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 233
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I suppose they were deceived and perhaps seduced into his service. I'm quite certain they worshipped Sauron as a god...and you know were religious beliefs can lead to...
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Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't |
02-27-2004, 02:28 PM | #7 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dol Amroth
Posts: 94
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they could also have been corrupted by fear.
Sauron probably kidnapped their leaders, and made them swear allegiance to him. and i thought that the Numenoreans had invaded lands of the Easterlings. they took Umbar of course.
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I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset! |
02-27-2004, 10:52 PM | #8 |
Laconic Loreman
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additions
yes, what everyone said here is true, sauron had influence over Harad and the easterlings. They felt as if it was like live or die.
Im sure gold was involved Sauron had already tried bribing the dwarves. |
02-28-2004, 10:59 AM | #9 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Very interesting everyone. They may have also sided with Sauron because they were convinced that he was the good one. Just two quick side questions. Where did the Easterlings come from as to who they decended from? Also, what happened to them after Aragorn became king?
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Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig? |
02-28-2004, 10:22 PM | #10 |
Wight
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Troll's larder
Posts: 195
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Easterlings were mentioned under the same name for several ages, from the First Age to the Third. (Or even Fourth) But I guess it would be a rather safe assumption to say that they all had the same ancestry. In the 1st Age, Men which had sided with Morgoth (the First Dark Lord) were collectively known as Easterlings. Famous Easterlings of the First Age are Ulfang the Black and his sons, Uldor, Ulfast and Ulwarth. These are the guys who betrayed the Noldor (Elves in Exile) in their war. One other named Easterling included Brodda who enslaved Hurin's people.
Hurin was an Edain, by the way, a word which means 'late-comers' (because men woke later after Genesis) , but was more often used to describe Men which are Elf-friends. All Men were said to have some sort of encounter with Morgoth very early on, since He wanted to enlist their services against the Eldar. But the Edain escaped Morgoth and reached the Elves. Easterlings, on the other hand, remained in his service, although some like the sons of Bor, changed his allegience to follow the Elves. Easterlings also arrived in Beleriand, which was in the West continent, later than the Edain, which showed that they had originated in the East... Majority of those Easterlings that followed Morgoth either perished or fleed Beleriand after the downfall of Morgoth at the end of the First Age. The Men of Numenor (The Numenoreans) had Elf-friend Ancestry, and were granted Numenor (Atlantis) for their aid against Morgoth. Of course, that means that the Good Guys had their paradise, while the Bad Guys wallow in their guilt and ate worms in the East. The rise of Sauron reversed the situation somewhat; the Men of Numenor became proud and scared of Death, which enabled Sauron to corrupt them into invading Valinor (Land of the Gods). The result is Zeus destroying Atlantis , leaving only a remnant of those Numenoreans (the Faithful) who escaped to Middle-Earth. Meanwhile, of course, the Easterlings and Haradrim and other 'Wild Men' were happily dancing around the fire and were none too happy that the Numenoreans had come back again to Middle-Earth. Previously, of course, the Numenoreans had invaded their lands while making war against Sauron. The Numenoreans probed up their pretty kingdoms, Arnor and Gondor, and war sparked. Sauron had returned into the fray, and then, everyone just fought until Isildur hacked out Sauron's finger. Yep, that about summarised the ongoings between the Easterlings and the Edain. Major potholes, of course - making of the Nine rings, capturing of Sauron, but the essense is there. So you see, there was B-A-D blood between the two people (Prof T always liked to trace enmity from the beginning). |
02-29-2004, 12:42 PM | #11 | |||
Haunting Spirit
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Quote:
Quote:
Admittedly, that was during the Second Age, and the events of LOTR are, as we know, in the Third Age; but it's the same guy, and obviously he went about things in a similar way (and was defeated once again--some people never learn ^_^). But essentially, the Easterlings (and the Haradrim, I believe) worshipped him. As to what happened to the Easterlings and the Haradrim after Aragorn became king (emphasis mine): Quote:
Hope that answers that part! |
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03-01-2004, 05:27 PM | #12 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sharkey's End
Posts: 267
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Quote:
The main reason that the Easterlings sided with Sauron was that they worshipped him as a god-king. For thousands of years they thought Sauron was their god, so it is no wonder that they sided with him, because who would refuse to fight for their god.
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03-02-2004, 09:28 AM | #13 |
Wight
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Troll's larder
Posts: 195
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Gee, I tend to generalise a great deal when it comes to the Bad Guys. But then the Good Guys are not always good either.
One of the reasons the Easterlings worshipped Sauron is because of the Nine Rings: He gave the rings to the most powerful amongst Men, be the Numenoreans or Easterling. I believe that in the UT or some other works, one of the Nazgul is an Easterling called Khamuz or something. If Sauron gave one of the rings to an Easterling King, he is likely to exert complete control over the people, not that he needed the ring to deceive them any how though. |
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