Odd Conclusions in Reference to Age and Fallibility - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Feanor of the Peredhil · 05-04-2003, 04:30 PM

As I was reading The Two Towers today, I came across an interesting line:

"Treebeard is Fangorn, the guardian of the forest; he is the oldest of the Ents, the oldest living thing that still walks beneath the Sun upon this Middle Earth." ~Gandalf the White to Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli.

Now, when I read this, I remembered another line in The Fellowship:

"Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees;" ~Tom Bombadil.

And also:

"Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless." ~Elrond Halfelven.

These statements conflict quite nicely, confusing me as to who is older: Bombadil or Fangorn. Now Bombadil himself tells us that he is oldest, and Elrond Loremaster agrees, however Gandalf, as the White, claims that Fangorn is the oldest living thing that walks ME.

This statement can be taken a few different ways, that I can think of:

1) Fangorn is older than Bombadil.

2) Bombadil is not actually a living thing.

3) Bombadil doesn't walk: he dances, or some other nonsense technicality.

or:

4) Gandalf is simply wrong.

Since I'm stuck on this, and I could very well be missing an interesting tidbit of information, I'd like some thoughts on this. Or possibly links, but I don't think you'll find any of those, since I looked for quite some time for a thread discussing this particularity.

Fea

Iarwain · 05-04-2003, 05:09 PM

Here is my answer. Good old Tom cannot be included in any judgement or contest because of his enigmatic state of existence. He does not belong in Middle-Earth, but at the same time belongs there just as much (if not more) than any other creature. If you want to make a general statment, say Fangorn.

Iarwain

GaladrieloftheOlden · 05-04-2003, 05:28 PM

There are already some threads on this topic. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Here is one. Here is another. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
~Menelien

[ May 04, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

05-04-2003, 04:30 PM	#1
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Odd Conclusions in Reference to Age and Fallibility As I was reading The Two Towers today, I came across an interesting line: "Treebeard is Fangorn, the guardian of the forest; he is the oldest of the Ents, the oldest living thing that still walks beneath the Sun upon this Middle Earth." ~Gandalf the White to Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli. Now, when I read this, I remembered another line in The Fellowship: "Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees;" ~Tom Bombadil. And also: "Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless." ~Elrond Halfelven. These statements conflict quite nicely, confusing me as to who is older: Bombadil or Fangorn. Now Bombadil himself tells us that he is oldest, and Elrond Loremaster agrees, however Gandalf, as the White, claims that Fangorn is the oldest living thing that walks ME. This statement can be taken a few different ways, that I can think of: 1) Fangorn is older than Bombadil. 2) Bombadil is not actually a living thing. 3) Bombadil doesn't walk: he dances, or some other nonsense technicality. or: 4) Gandalf is simply wrong. Since I'm stuck on this, and I could very well be missing an interesting tidbit of information, I'd like some thoughts on this. Or possibly links, but I don't think you'll find any of those, since I looked for quite some time for a thread discussing this particularity. Fea __________________ peace

05-04-2003, 05:09 PM	#2
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 800	Here is my answer. Good old Tom cannot be included in any judgement or contest because of his enigmatic state of existence. He does not belong in Middle-Earth, but at the same time belongs there just as much (if not more) than any other creature. If you want to make a general statment, say Fangorn. Iarwain __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"

05-04-2003, 05:28 PM	#3
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,514	There are already some threads on this topic. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Here is one. Here is another. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ~Menelien [ May 04, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ] __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."