Those of Mortal Descent in the Undying Lands

[Dûrbelethwen]

I noticed many on this board think that those mortals who are allowed to go to Valinor die at the end of their usual life spans. I think that they become immortal. I am "reading" the Letters of JRR Tolkien (I put reading in quotes because it is rather difficult to read it in the usual sense).
In one of the letters Professor Tolkien clearly states that Tuor was given elf immortality just as Luthian was given human mortality.
Second is what Professor Tolkien says about Valinor in one of the letters: " But in this story it is supposed that there may be certain rare exception or accommodations (legitimately supposed? there always seems to be exceptions); and so certain 'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo (by the express gift of Arwen) and Bilbo, and eventually Sam (as adumbrated by Frodo); and as a unique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel." All the inside quotes are the professor's.

Another point (though I admit a shaky one) is why would Bilbo and Sam sail to the Undying lands late in life if they were going to die soon anyway. Particularly Bilbo for I do not see a reason why he could have not died in Rivendell, I am sure the remaining Elves there would have given him a very nice funeral.

A final point is in the appendice the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. At the end of his life Aragorn told Arwen to leave for the Undying Lands now that would soon be dead. It would be safe to assume this is because he wanted her to take back her immortality.

[Rinfanawen]

Another point (though I admit a shaky one) is why would Bilbo and Sam sail to the Undying lands late in life if they were going to die soon anyway. Particularly Bilbo for I do not see a reason why he could have not died in Rivendell, I am sure the remaining Elves there would have given him a very nice funeral.

I just wanted to put in, why wouldn't you want to go to the undying lands? I mean, if it were me, and my life was about to end, I would want to go. Who gets the chance to see the land of Valinor? It's supposed to be the most beautiful land in existence at that time. Bilbo, if any, I think would desire to go just for the experience...even if would be just for a short time.

But I see your point, Dûrbelethwen. I've wondered myself whether Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo lived on after they were taken to Valinor. Seeing I didn't have a copy of Tolkien's Letters in my possession, I just made my own assumptions about the topic until I could gain knowledge of it. I just figured that the Hobbits stopped aging altogether. I guess you could call it immortality. Thanks for the sources though.

[Encaitare]

I have neither proof nor evidence to support this theory, but my personal opinion is a happy medium: mortals in the Undying Lands will still die, but not until much later than would be normal. Their lives would just be "extended," if you will.

This opinion could, of course, change as I move along through HoME and eventually get to Letters.

[Fingolfin II]

Some good ideas Dûrbelethwen, but I disagree with your theory. Let me say why:

Another point (though I admit a shaky one) is why would Bilbo and Sam sail to the Undying lands late in life if they were going to die soon anyway. Particularly Bilbo for I do not see a reason why he could have not died in Rivendell, I am sure the remaining Elves there would have given him a very nice funeral.

As well as the reasons given by Rinfanawen, Bilbo and Sam had suffered a lot- they both bore the Ring, albeit Sam only bore it for a very short time. They felt it's effects (Bilbo became very attached to the Ring and Sam saw himself as the 'conquering gardener' in the world) and were thus permitted to travel to Tol Eressea. The Undying Lands were a 'paradise' away from Middle-Earth and a resting place for both immortals and mortals like Frodo, Sam, Bilbo and Gimli.

Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time. So he went both to a purgatory and to a reward, for a while: a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness, spent still in Time amid the natural beauty of 'Arda Unmarred', the Earth unspoiled by evil.- The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 246

Dûrbelethwen, you said-

In one of the letters Professor Tolkien clearly states that Tuor was given elf immortality just as Luthian was given human mortality.

Tuor was given elven immortality because of his love of the Noldor and his services to Ulmo. However, this does not necessarily mean that the Hobbits and Gimli will be given immortality just because they inhabit the Undying Lands. In the Akallabeth, somewhere I recall that the messengers of Manwe said that even if the Numenoreans lived in Valinor, they would die the quicker like 'moths exposed to a light too bright' or something along those lines. In short, Tuor was a special case and Tolkien himself said that Frodo, Sam, Gimli and Bilbo would die-

I have said nothing about it in this book, but the mythical idea underlying is that for mortals, since their 'kind' cannot be changed for ever, this is strictly only a temporary reward: a healing and redress of suffering. They cannot abide for ever, and though they cannot return to mortal earth, they can and will 'die' of free will, and leave the world.- The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 154

This quote above is the next part of the letter which you used as an example and I believe, proves my point about Tuor being a special case.

Also-

As for Frodo or other mortals, they could only dwell in Aman for a limited time - whether brief or long. The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer 'immortality' upon them. Their sojourn was a 'purgatory', but one of peace and healing and they would eventually pass away (die at their own desire and of free will) to destinations of which the Elves knew nothing.- The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 325

That seems pretty conclusive to me. Thanks to Legolas' FAQ Article, which provided me with the quotes from Tolkien's letters, so that I didn't have to look them up myself .

A final point is in the appendice the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. At the end of his life Aragorn told Arwen to leave for the Undying Lands now that would soon be dead. It would be safe to assume this is because he wanted her to take back her immortality.

Arwen was also another 'special case'. She and her brothers had the choice of mortality or immortality because of their descent through Elrond's side. She chose mortality on Cerin Amroth, but after Aragorn died she had the chance to repent as you said, and take back her immortality. However, if she went Valinor, she wouldn't be able to come back and be mortal- she couldn't chop and change. As she said, her 'choice was made long ago' and the gift of going to the Undying Lands she gave to Frodo. So, Arwen had a choice- she was a special case. She chose mortality and died.

[Legolas]

A final point is in the appendice the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. At the end of his life Aragorn told Arwen to leave for the Undying Lands now that would soon be dead. It would be safe to assume this is because he wanted her to take back her immortality.

This is because Aragorn did not fully understand the situation - Arwen was a half-elf, and was given the right to choose her fate. When she chose to be mortal when her father left for Aman, she was making a permanent choice. There was no turning back for her.

As Fingolfin II has said, I've shown Tolkien's explanations of what happens to Frodo, Sam, Bilbo, and Gimli - they all die eventually. Aman is place for Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo to find peace in their life without the Ring, and finally rest. The quotes you've read about exceptions - Tuor and Luthien - are correct, but, as stated in some of those quotes, these are the only cases where the fundamental race/fate of a person is changed.

You can read that article here with the quotes from letters 154, 246, and 325.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

It would seem to me a rather cruel fate to leave Frodo, Sam and Bilbo alive forever in Valinor since that would deny them their final reward of dying and passing on to the next stage of existence. Continued life, unending existence, is a curse: the Nazgul being the best example of this, and to a lesser extent Gollum. But even the Elves bear this out -- it's their 'immortal' tie to the physical world that dooms them to things like Feanor's oath and the 'long defeat'. Beings who have life eternal (in this world) are doomed to share this world's fate.

I would hope for much more than that as a final reward for the Ring-bearers!

(I am, however, convinced that Frodo was still alive when Sam arrived in the West, and they were reunited once more in this life, for a time.)