Okay...start from the begining...there's this ring, see?... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Amaris Ethne · 11-05-2003, 07:22 PM

That was pretty much what I had to try to tell my mum and finace. I love LotR, of course. And after my seeing it at midnight the first night it was showing in a complete Elf costume for FotR and in a dress exactly like Eowen's, down to her necklace and a wig, they decided I needed a 12 step program. I argued that if they would only sit down and actually read the books, they'd become obsessed like me. Both said that reading the works of Tolkien would be a waste of time. So, I came up with a brilliant idea. We'd sit down and watch the cartoons and the movies with my finger on the pause button, and I'd answer any and all questions that came up. But then we came across a problem; who does someone who has been obsessed with the world of Tolkien since she was ten sit down and explain that world to "Tolkien Virgins" as I call them?? I mean, even explaining the significance of the rings proved to be a problem! They just couldn't get it. And then explainig the whole Aragorn, son of Arathorn rightful heir of Gondor? Forget it. So, I need everyone's help. How do you explain some of the finer points of LotR to Tolkein Virgins????Thanks!

Essex · 11-05-2003, 07:28 PM

As long as they're young enough they seem to get it! I was talking to my 4 (going on 5) year old son the other day, explaining what Frodo had to do with the ring. He was coming up with loads of other things they could do to destroy it. you know, throw it in a fire, throw it down where Gandalf fell (which was a good one!), throw it in a river, break it with an axe (his favourite character is Gimli at the mo!) etc.But explaining it to adults, I find, is near impossible. I've finally got my missus to read the thing at last! She's currently following merry and pippin into fangorn. I love it when she keeps saying 'it's not really like the films is it?' that makes me laugh.Get them to read the thing or tell them you'll spoil it all for them by telling them the ending.[ November 05, 2003: Message edited by: Essex ]

HCIsland · 11-05-2003, 08:08 PM

You know, some folks just aren't into fantasy. It's simply not their cup of tea. As much as you love it, you will have to accept that not everyone does. I have three brothers. One of my brothers and his two kids are right into it, one sort of (he's seen the two films anyway) and the last just doesn't get what the hype is about. My mom came with us to Towers (after we watched Fellowship the night before on DVD) and she enjoyed it. My dad wouldn't come if I paid him.It's all cool. Different strokes.H.C.

samrohan · 11-06-2003, 01:56 AM

My son at the age of three and a half is too young, he is scared by Gollum. But It seems like I should force my wife to start reading the book. She really enjoyed watching the films in the movies and even watched the DVDs with me, though not as many times.Explaining Tolkien's world to "Tolkien virgins" is not easy. I reckon you should start with the Hobbit. From there if they like the genre, attack the LOTR.Good luck!

Meela · 11-06-2003, 05:35 AM

My opinion is the same as HC's. Not everyone likes Lotr, and I personally think it is a waste of time trying to convert everyone. It also deducts from the time you yourself can spend studying Tolkien.I was forced into reading the Silmarillion, by this very site. The result? I hate it even more than I did before.My advice? Stick to the people who do like it. Encourage those who want to read the books and help them to understand them better.

Carorëiel · 11-06-2003, 07:36 AM

I agree that you shouldn't force anyone to read it if they really don't want to. It'll ruin it for them.However, if you do manage to convince someone that they may actually want to read LotR but they're still leary, try writing a brief guidebook for them. Include a list of characters with a brief description of each, some info on who they are and how they relate to other characters, and what other names they might be called (Aragron, Strider, Elessar, etc). Also include a brief discussion of the differences between peoples in Middle Earth (hobbits, elves, men, dwarves, ents), and a list of important place names (Shire, Bree, Amon Hen, Mordor, etc) and things (the Ring, palantir, Narsil, etc). I did this for my grandmother. I put in pictures of the characters from the movies so she'd have some visuals to help her remember who was who. I know this sounds like a lot of effort, but I had a great time doing it and it even strengthened my own understanding of LotR. And best of all, my grandmother's now reading LotR, understanding it, and enjoying it. I'm so excited!

Mariska Greenleaf · 11-06-2003, 08:19 AM

Wow, Carorëiel, that's quite an effort alright. I wouldn't have the time to do a thing like that, but it sounds really cool, and it's great you helped your granny like that!I agree with some previous posts on this one, some people simply do not like the genre, and trying to force them into it only makes it worse. And that is after all a normal reaction. My brother wanted me to like watching football on tv, it didn't work either, on the contrary! It's just a matter of respecting people's choices to like or dislike something and not trying to force them into your own "obsession".

Olorin_TLA · 11-06-2003, 12:19 PM

Just sit down one day and watch FotR EE.Then if they like it, TTT EE.Then go to the cinema for RotK if they want. Which they will if they liked Fellowship in the first place.Seriously: cartoons - BAD...and because they're animated, they'll dismiss it more than they already do. They're proabbly a lost cause, but watching FotR EE could help.

Amaris Ethne · 11-06-2003, 06:07 PM

I'm not forcing them. They kept asking me what the hype was. I told them that to understand they'd either have to sit down and actually watch it, or read it. Then I proposed watching it with them and explaining it when the didn't want to read it. They agreed. It's not that they don't wantto try to understand it--it's that I can't explain it to them adequatley. You see, Andrew (my fiancee) decided that sicne LotR is so important to me, he wants to at least give it a fair try. So he is trying to understand. I just need advice on how to help him.

Rose Cotton · 11-15-2003, 05:22 PM

It depends on exactly what they don't understand.You said they don't get the power of the ring. Here are some of the points you should cover about it:~It was created by Sauron, a dark sorcerer.~It contains his power and "life-force."~Because of this it almost has a mind of it's own.~It turns whoever wears it invisible.~It lengthens the life of anyone who owns it for a long time.~Because it has Sauron's power it is constantly trying to get back to him. It does this by manipulating people around it and by changing it's size to perhaps slip off a finger.~It makes people evil.~Because it makes people evil it must be destroyed.~It can't be hidden because it will find a way to be found again.~It can be destoyed only in Mt. Doom because that is where it was made.That is what I would say to anyone who wanted to know about the ring.As for other things. When your explaining concepts and even who and what people are don't use you're full knoledge. Only use infomation that's vital.

Imladris · 11-15-2003, 10:15 PM

Try not to get bogged down in details. Give them a very brief sketch of the story (similiar to what Mariska Greenleaf said and if they then like it, have them first read The Hobbit, because it's an easy read, it's funny, no boring parts (unlike LotR), and, well, it's the coolest book in the world.

Gorwingel · 11-15-2003, 10:22 PM

I have never tried to introduce someone to the book really seriously. I just always tell them that if they liked the films they should read the books because it is more of the same. I usually have just tried to get people to watch the movie. And I additionally never try to explain the story to people because I tend to get bogged down, and also I go into too much detail because I have read the books that go along with LOTR so I try to tell them background details that they really don't need to know.[ November 16, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]

Iarhen · 11-23-2003, 02:14 AM

Well, my dad just hates it... He just likes the battle scenes in the movies, and theres no way in this world he would ever read the books... I dont know why... It happens the same as my obsession with Madonna... He tends to develop a phobia against all of my obsessions... LOL...But my mother is a totally different thing... Shes in love with Aragorn, and somewhat with Legolas... She likes Cate Blanchett a lot (shes her favourite actress) so we share a common obsession with Galadriel...And my sister and brother in law love the movies...

11-05-2003, 07:22 PM	#1
Amaris Ethne Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Ireland Posts: 27	Okay...start from the begining...there's this ring, see?... That was pretty much what I had to try to tell my mum and finace. I love LotR, of course. And after my seeing it at midnight the first night it was showing in a complete Elf costume for FotR and in a dress exactly like Eowen's, down to her necklace and a wig, they decided I needed a 12 step program. I argued that if they would only sit down and actually <I>read</I> the books, they'd become obsessed like me. Both said that reading the works of Tolkien would be a waste of time. So, I came up with a brilliant idea. We'd sit down and watch the cartoons and the movies with my finger on the pause button, and I'd answer any and all questions that came up. But then we came across a problem; who does someone who has been obsessed with the world of Tolkien since she was ten sit down and explain that world to "Tolkien Virgins" as I call them?? I mean, even explaining the significance of the rings proved to be a problem! They just couldn't get it. And then explainig the whole Aragorn, son of Arathorn rightful heir of Gondor? Forget it. So, I need everyone's help. How do you explain some of the finer points of LotR to Tolkein Virgins????<P>Thanks! __________________ Merry Meet, Merry Part and Merry Meet Again. Blessed Be.

11-05-2003, 07:28 PM	#2
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	As long as they're young enough they seem to get it! I was talking to my 4 (going on 5) year old son the other day, explaining what Frodo had to do with the ring. He was coming up with loads of other things they could do to destroy it. you know, throw it in a fire, throw it down where Gandalf fell (which was a good one!), throw it in a river, break it with an axe (his favourite character is Gimli at the mo!) etc.<P>But explaining it to adults, I find, is near impossible. I've finally got my missus to read the thing at last! She's currently following merry and pippin into fangorn. I love it when she keeps saying 'it's not really like the films is it?' that makes me laugh.<P>Get them to read the thing or tell them you'll spoil it all for them by telling them the ending.<p>[ November 05, 2003: Message edited by: Essex ]

11-05-2003, 08:08 PM	#3
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	You know, some folks just aren't into fantasy. It's simply not their cup of tea. As much as you love it, you will have to accept that not everyone does. I have three brothers. One of my brothers and his two kids are right into it, one sort of (he's seen the two films anyway) and the last just doesn't get what the hype is about. My mom came with us to Towers (after we watched Fellowship the night before on DVD) and she enjoyed it. My dad wouldn't come if I paid him.<P>It's all cool. Different strokes.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

11-06-2003, 01:56 AM	#4
samrohan Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Touring Minas Tirith with Gimli and Legolas Posts: 107	My son at the age of three and a half is too young, he is scared by Gollum. But It seems like I should force my wife to start reading the book. She really enjoyed watching the films in the movies and even watched the DVDs with me, though not as many times.<P>Explaining Tolkien's world to "Tolkien virgins" is not easy. I reckon you should start with the Hobbit. From there if they like the genre, attack the LOTR.<P>Good luck! __________________ I can't believe I have not watched the return of the king yet.

11-06-2003, 05:35 AM	#5
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	My opinion is the same as HC's. Not everyone likes Lotr, and I personally think it is a waste of time trying to convert everyone. It also deducts from the time you yourself can spend studying Tolkien.<P>I was forced into reading the Silmarillion, by this very site. The result? I hate it even more than I did before.<P>My advice? Stick to the people who do like it. Encourage those who want to read the books and help them to understand them better. __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

11-06-2003, 07:36 AM	#6
Carorëiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Tennessee Posts: 54	I agree that you shouldn't force anyone to read it if they really don't want to. It'll ruin it for them.<P>However, if you do manage to convince someone that they may actually want to read LotR but they're still leary, try writing a brief guidebook for them. Include a list of characters with a brief description of each, some info on who they are and how they relate to other characters, and what other names they might be called (Aragron, Strider, Elessar, etc). Also include a brief discussion of the differences between peoples in Middle Earth (hobbits, elves, men, dwarves, ents), and a list of important place names (Shire, Bree, Amon Hen, Mordor, etc) and things (the Ring, palantir, Narsil, etc). I did this for my grandmother. I put in pictures of the characters from the movies so she'd have some visuals to help her remember who was who. <P>I know this sounds like a lot of effort, but I had a great time doing it and it even strengthened my own understanding of LotR. And best of all, my grandmother's now reading LotR, understanding it, and enjoying it. I'm so excited! __________________ "Art is our way of keeping track of what we know and have known, secretly, from the beginning."--John Gardner

11-06-2003, 08:19 AM	#7
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	Wow, Carorëiel, that's quite an effort alright. I wouldn't have the time to do a thing like that, but it sounds really cool, and it's great you helped your granny like that!<P>I agree with some previous posts on this one, some people simply do not like the genre, and trying to force them into it only makes it worse. And that is after all a normal reaction. My brother wanted me to like watching football on tv, it didn't work either, on the contrary! <BR>It's just a matter of respecting people's choices to like or dislike something and not trying to force them into your own "obsession". __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

11-06-2003, 12:19 PM	#8
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Just sit down one day and watch FotR EE.<P>Then if they like it, TTT EE.<P>Then go to the cinema for RotK if they want. Which they will if they liked Fellowship in the first place.<P>Seriously: cartoons - BAD...and because they're animated, they'll dismiss it more than they already do. They're proabbly a lost cause, but watching FotR EE could help. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

11-06-2003, 06:07 PM	#9
Amaris Ethne Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Ireland Posts: 27	I'm not forcing them. They kept asking me what the hype was. I told them that to understand they'd either have to sit down and actually watch it, or read it. Then I proposed watching it with them and explaining it when the didn't want to read it. They agreed. It's not that they don't <I>want</I>to try to understand it--it's that I can't explain it to them adequatley. You see, Andrew (my fiancee) decided that sicne LotR is so important to me, he wants to at least give it a fair try. So he is trying to understand. I just need advice on how to help him. __________________ Merry Meet, Merry Part and Merry Meet Again. Blessed Be.

11-15-2003, 05:22 PM	#10
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	It depends on exactly what they don't understand.<P>You said they don't get the power of the ring. Here are some of the points you should cover about it:<P>~It was created by Sauron, a dark sorcerer.<P>~It contains his power and "life-force."<P>~Because of this it almost has a mind of it's own.<P>~It turns whoever wears it invisible.<P>~It lengthens the life of anyone who owns it for a long time.<P>~Because it has Sauron's power it is constantly trying to get back to him. It does this by manipulating people around it and by changing it's size to perhaps slip off a finger.<P>~It makes people evil.<P>~Because it makes people evil it must be destroyed.<P>~It can't be hidden because it will find a way to be found again.<P>~It can be destoyed only in Mt. Doom because that is where it was made.<P>That is what I would say to anyone who wanted to know about the ring.<P>As for other things. When your explaining concepts and even who and what people are don't use you're full knoledge. Only use infomation that's vital. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

11-15-2003, 10:15 PM	#11
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	Try not to get bogged down in details. Give them a very brief sketch of the story (similiar to what Mariska Greenleaf said and if they then like it, have them first read The Hobbit, because it's an easy read, it's funny, no boring parts (unlike LotR), and, well, it's the coolest book in the world. __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry.

11-15-2003, 10:22 PM	#12
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	I have never tried to introduce someone to the book really seriously. I just always tell them that if they liked the films they should read the books because it is more of the same. I usually have just tried to get people to watch the movie. And I additionally never try to explain the story to people because I tend to get bogged down, and also I go into too much detail because I have read the books that go along with LOTR so I try to tell them background details that they really don't need to know.<p>[ November 16, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ] __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

11-23-2003, 02:14 AM	#13
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	Well, my dad just hates it... He just likes the battle scenes in the movies, and theres no way in this world he would ever read the books... I dont know why... It happens the same as my obsession with Madonna... He tends to develop a phobia against all of my obsessions... LOL...<P>But my mother is a totally different thing... Shes in love with Aragorn, and somewhat with Legolas... She likes Cate Blanchett a lot (shes her favourite actress) so we share a common obsession with Galadriel...<P>And my sister and brother in law love the movies... __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.