Werewolf XLVI: Getting Back to Basics

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oh dear. I just realized I left Mith out of my last post. Sorry!

I thought she was pretty innocent until her last post. I honestly don't think Lhuna dreamt of her, and Mith assuming that she did rubs me the wrong way. Hopefully nothing, but worth mentioning.

I didn't .... and how was it suspicious in my last post but not my first?

THAT looks odd to me...

[Volo]

Aargh! I've got a feeling that with most participents, this Day went to waste. :/ Truly, listen to Noggie when he says "speak up". (note to myself)

[Mithalwen]

++Nogrod

[Thinlómien]

Okay, sorry daddy if you're innocent...

++NOGROD

edit: xed with everybody since my latest post

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

At least today I am more decided.

++Nogrod

Anyway I feel also more relaxed, as both Nog or Gwath are high on my list, and I'll be comfortable whichever of them ends up lynched (now that sounded pretty awful...).

EDIT: looks like x-ing is quite common here, who knows what I read as last... no wonder...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Really too much information

Ditto that.


Well....I think I'm voting for Gwath today. Not to be co-dependant, but I'm going to wait like one more minute and see how others are voting. Don't want to waste a vote on Gwath if it comes down to two other suspects being in close ranks lynchwise.

[Volo]

++Gwath.
To find out more about the voting.

[Thinlómien]

Why's Mith only talking about herself? Troubling...


edit: xed with Mr V

[Nogrod]

It looks like the whole village is filled with cobblers or something...

Okay.

I'll go with my top suspect who has not done too much to make himself look better toDay (refer to earlier discussions toDay).

++ Gwath

EDIT: X'd with a host...

[Mithalwen]

May not be fair but it is consistent and I just don't trust him ....

[satansaloser2005]

Oh noes!

I'd rather see Gwath go than Noggie at the moment, so....

++GWATH

[Volo]

I hope that there'll be a lot to find from the times people did various things toDay. Not the least - vote.

[Thinlómien]

This is interesting...

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Why's Mith only talking about herself? Troubling...


edit: xed with Mr V

I am the only person I know about? The rest baffle me... and I just can't get my head around it....

Hey I know since I am so troubling, get rid of me and I'll go back to my garden and hopefully a bottle of champagne?

[satansaloser2005]

Don't I know it.


Oh, believe me, Volo, as soon as I get my work done, I'm going to go through and write down all the vote times from the last two days. It helped me out a ton last game.

[Thinlómien]

Mith, stop that...

[Volo]

Mith, stop that...

[Meneltarmacil]

Time's up. Nogrod and Gwath are tied, and the lynchee will be chosen randomly.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I didn't .... and how was it suspicious in my last post but not my first?

THAT looks odd to me...

Because I missed it the first time. *sheepish face*


EDIT: Sorry, past DL. Oh well. Life goes on....

[Meneltarmacil]

"Gwathagor! Nogrod!" said the villagers. "Time for you werewolves to die!"

"Wait!" Gwath pleaded. "We need a fair trial. Plus, we can't have two people being lynched at the same time."

A die was rolled to determine who would die. Unfortunately for Gwathagor, it was him.

"Objection!" shouted the lawyer. "We don't have enough people here to make a proper jury, and I don't think anyone here is qualified to be a judge, either."

The villagers put his head into the noose despite his arguments.

"Well, since legal arguments won't work, I guess I'll have to use a more physical approach," threatened Gwath.

He dropped onto all fours. Thick gray fur suddenly grew all over him as he increased in size. Yellowish fangs sprouted in his mouth. His transformation into a large wolf complete, Gwathagor snarled viciously and lunged at the villagers.

However, he still had a noose around his neck, and just as they had with Lhuna, the villagers pulled with all their might on the rope, lifting the werewolf high in the air and choking it to death.

As they lowered the dead wolf to the ground, the villagers gave a sigh of relief. A werewolf had been killed.

Alive:
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Nerwen
Nogrod
Oddwen
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior
Thinlomien
Volo

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Crushed under falling cow by Wolves on Night 1.
Lhunardawen (Seer): Hung by villagers on Day 1.
Aganzir (Ordinary Villager): Made into shoes by Wolves on Night 2.
Gwathagor (Werewolf): Objections aside, hung by villagers on Day 2.

Night 3 begins. Villagers may not post until the beginning of Day 3. I need names as well.

[Meneltarmacil]

As the day began, there was a major commotion.

Bungo, Volo's gorilla, truned up in the village square making a lot of noise and pointing off into the woods.

"What's he going on about?" Nerwen wondered. "Volo, can't you keep him under control?

"Volo?"

But Volo was nowhere to be seen that morning. The villagers followed Bungo to Volo's cabin in the forest. Inside, they found a number of bones scattered around the floor, but it was Legate who saw the most hideous part of it.

Above the fireplace, the wolves had mounted Volo's head amongst the explorer's other trophies.

Alive:
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Nerwen
Nogrod
Oddwen
satansaloser2005
The Elf-warrior
Thinlomien

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Crushed under falling cow by Wolves on Night 1.
Lhunardawen (Seer): Hung by villagers on Day 1.
Aganzir (Ordinary Villager): Made into shoes by Wolves on Night 2.
Gwathagor (Werewolf): Objections aside, hung by villagers on Day 2.
Volo (Ordinary Villager): Turned into a hunting trophy by Wolves on Night 3.

Day 3 has begun.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hm, so Volo. Actually I'm a bit surprised, as I thought it will be Sally (because of her last vote which tied Gwath with Nog). But I am not happy with it nonetheless (well who would be), as Volo was among the ones I regarded more like innocent. Sufficient to say, had for example Nogrod been killed, I would have been maybe even happy Okay, sorry Nog, that wasn't nice, but sure my stance is understandable After yesterday, I need to re-think whether it's possible that Nog would be a wolf even when Gwath was. I think I'm going to spend some time looking at Gwath and his relations with other people. But not sure if I'll do it rightaway, as I have other work to do... but hopefully soon. And if not today evening, then in the morning, in about 11 hours. Till then, good luck all of you who are innocent!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Another addittion. Btw I think it may be helpful if someone posted a voting list (I looked through it, but don't have time or nerves to put it together. I know, I'm lazy, but like I said, other work to do right now). But the late Gwath-voters (yes, even with Nogrod *sigh*) look better to me now. Unless there was a deliberate wolf-sacrificing action, which I don't think there was (although I'd like to look at peoples' arguments for voting Gwath, which may clear whether there's not some wolf hidden among them). Yes, I am noting this also for myself so that I don't forget Whatever. See you later.

[Thinlómien]

Volo? Why? Did he seem gifted or something? Or was he just quite innocent-considered, not-so-vocal player whose death would not leave so much tracks?

YesterDay's voting was mad... I have to have a look at it at some phase, but not now, when I'm going to sleep.

I'm still suspicious of Nogrod and less suspicious of Legate because he has decreased his suspicion of Nogrod. If he was a wolf, I think he would continue the same "handy" suspicion. This is, unless they are fellow wolves, which is something I don't consider impossible.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Another addittion. Btw I think it may be helpful if someone posted a voting list (I looked through it, but don't have time or nerves to put it together. I know, I'm lazy, but like I said, other work to do right now). But the late Gwath-voters (yes, even with Nogrod *sigh*) look better to me now. Unless there was a deliberate wolf-sacrificing action, which I don't think there was (although I'd like to look at peoples' arguments for voting Gwath, which may clear whether there's not some wolf hidden among them). Yes, I am noting this also for myself so that I don't forget Whatever. See you later.

In regards to the request for a voting list: Give me like 20 minutes. I need to type it on here and make sure I got all the votes and times and things right. But I'd be happy to.

[satansaloser2005]

Day One Votes:
Volo-->Volo at 5:32am
Lhuna -->Gwath at 2:01pm
Kath -->Legate at 4:42
Nerwen -->Lhuna at 5:37pm
Gwath -->Lhuna at 5:52pm
Mith -->Noggie at 6:37pm
Noggie -->Lhuna at 6:52pm
Elf -->Agan at 6:56pm
Lommie -->Gwath at 6:59pm
Agan -->Legate at 6:59pm
No voters: Legate, Oddie, Sally

Day Two Votes:
Kath -->Noggie at 11:30pm
Oddie -->Gwath at 2:39pm
Gwath -->Legate at 6:53pm
Mith -->Noggie at 6:56pm
Lommie-->Noggie at 6:56pm
Legate -->Noggie at 6:56pm
Volo -->Gwath at 6:57pm
Noggie -->Gwath at 6:58pm
Sally -->Gwath at 6:58pm
No voters: Elf, Nerwen


There they are!

EDIT: Sorry, put them all in my time zone! Fixed now, though!


EDIT AGAIN: I decided to note the known innocents and known wolf, just in case it helps anyone else. I color code for myself, but sadly that's not an option on the board I guess.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I see this is going to end the typical way: almost no posts this far and when I awaken in the morning, there will be a host to read Anyway, I read though Gwathagor's posts. Concerning people, after I read it all, I really don't believe Nogrod is another wolf, unless it was all a plan from him, because Gwath I'd think won't do such a thing to go after packmate Nog the way he did. Just look at almost any post of Gwath's, and he places Nog there into the same line with the ones who are dead.

UNLESS... now looking at the voting list... Gwath in fact voted for me! So may it be that he did not want to vote for Nog because he was a fellow wolf? Possibly? But then, there are indeed many arguments against. Hmm... not sure.

Otherwise: the track is complete, technically all whom Gwath accused, have been dead later. Odd. Anyway, he mostly mentioned all people, negatively, except for a few; and I think a Wolf may be there, at best among those whom he did not mention at all.

He very little mentioned Nerwen, just here:

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Excuse me? When did I do that? But at least you preemptively acknowledged that you also are "chiming in" with other people (in this case Nogrod). That's good. Acknowledging your own suspiciousness is always a good ploy for averting further suspicion. (Ha!)

Then also Oddwen, with whom I'd say it looks worse, i.e. more probable that she were another wolf. Also similar times he mentions Elf Warrior:

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Now look...I feel the same way about Oddwen's post, as she is just mimicking me and I think a couple others (?). That looks suspicious because repeating someone else is such an obviously safe move. However, Nogrod, you were awfully quick to identify my post as "wolvish"? (etc., speaking to Nog then)

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I want to hear more from Oddwen and The Elf Warrior. We have lynched people for silence in the past...and we could do it again. Of course, silence usually is the safest defense.

Does anyone thing the formulation is odd? The last sentence does not logically fit in there, does it? It looks like praising silence??? Maybe a wolf hint to a friend among these two - "stay silent, that's the best defense"? Or how do you read it? I find that improbable and maybe I am reading too much to it (maybe a writing mischmatch), but it simply is odd.

To sally:

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

What case? Be more specific, please, and I'll do my best to oblige. I haven't seen any serious arguments or evidence leveled against me, but you seem pretty happy to seize on Oddwen's vote and call it a case - and THAT looks fuzzy, because you've been even less involved than Oddwen.

This is his other mentioning of Oddwen. Now I'm not sure whether he'd use a fellow wolf as an example, but it may be an attempt of defense.

And last, there is this:

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Oddwen looks the worst of the quiet to me - but you all seem to be convinced that Lhuna found her innocent? To me, her sparse, non-involved voting/posting pattern seems like that of either a scavenging wolf or an irresponsible innocent.

This may be a time for trying to seem like arising a wolf-on-wolf suspicion, yet backing from it immediately because "the others are convinced she's innocent".

His handling of Nog, sally and Lommy seems too dangerous to me to think that any of these would be a fellow wolf.

As far as I know, he did not mention Mith nor Kath at all.

Nerwen, Oddwen, The Elf-warrior are the others who remain. One (or more eventually, if there's more wolves) of them may be his fellow packmate.

I think I should read what others say of Gwath. Maybe I will do Kath yet today, it should be fast with her.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Volo? Why? Did he seem gifted or something? Or was he just quite innocent-considered, not-so-vocal player whose death would not leave so much tracks?

Personally I think there was his self-vote which some considered innocentish, but mainly he was among Gwath-voters and also he interacted with him (or Gwath with him, respectively) the way that it could have been concluded that they are not peers, so after Gwath was lynched, Volo could have been one of the subjects possible to get out of the way. Nog was suspected by me and you; Sally... I really don't know why she wasn't killed... but maybe to puzzle us, to ask exactly this and suspect her of being a wolf... that would mean the wolf is someone clever... because I seriously find that hard to think that she is a wolf, after what she did yesterday. Also Gwath once a little interacted with her (it's quoted even in my post above) a little bit negatively. Oddwen voted first, that wasn't that apparent. Volo was simply the second vote, the one which makes the bandwagon not just one random vote, but which makes it rolling. Or so I see it.

As for votes: thanks, Sally. Now I'd wonder if Oddwolf would have started a Gwathwagon in the first place, as there was suspicion against him. Dangerous?

[satansaloser2005]

Here to serve, Master Legate.

You know, it was possible that an Oddie-wolf voted for Gwath and didn't think he'd actually get killed; I've seen wolves make bolder moves in my time. I've never played with Oddie before though. Would she do that?

[Oddwen]

Day One -

Gwath's first post mentions how he dislikes first days.

Nogrod jumps on this statement, says it's wolvish, calls lawyers useless.

Nogrod groups Lhuna & Oddwen with Gwath for the same reason as Gwath.

Lhuna calls Gwath a "guilty lawyer"

Gwath replies to Nogrod's suspicion of Oddwen with the defense "she is just mimicking me", calls repeating everyone "a safe move" - he says Nogrod "took no convincing whatsoever" that Gwath's post was wolvish, that Nogrod is either innocent as Lhuna said or a wolf. He leans toward Nogrod being innocent. Gwath says he likes Lhuna's lists, providing they are factual and not personal. He calls Legate "reasonable and impenetrable", but doesn't know what to make of him, and doesn't like Legate's gut feelings (towards Mith and Nogrod) calling them "too easy a basis for suspicion, and requires no actual evidence". He says "his other posts don't depend on "honest gut feelings", so maybe he's alright."

Oddwen questions Nogrod's grouping of herself with Gwath, calls the grouping of she, Gwath & Lhuna "hasty".

Oddwen replies to Gwath's assumption that she was repeating everyone else with a joke.

Legate says Gwath's post makes him feel uneasy, but feels that his opinion on Lhuna's list is "okay", says Lhuna's list are "statement of fact", but still could be twisted subtly. Legate wonders what Gwath sees as "reasonable" in his earlier posts, wonders if this is wolvish. Legate goes on to place Gwath in his "yellow zone", says that he "used to be worse...from an observer point".

Lommy feels there's something wrong, especially with Gwath & Legate, she replies to their discussion of Lhuna's list, calling them more "joking" than "helpful", nothing wrong with that, playfully says Gwath & Legate err in seeing it differently than she, calls their views "limited if not false". She finds Legate looks worse than Gwath, but finds Gwath calling Legate "reasonable" suspicious, as Legate does. She must think, but is watching those two, as is everyone else.

Nogrod agrees with Lommy about "Lhuna['s list]& the guys", thinks Legate & Gwath place too much importance on them. He says his suspicions from earlier on Gwath hasn't made Gwath look better, finding him "too verbiose", he feels better about Oddwen, doesn't know what to make of Lhuna.

Lhuna cannot imagine why Gwath would want her to only stick to facts, says if she had he should have been worried because that's something a wolf could hide behind, something a wolf could do safely to avoid incriminating themselves. She has an "honest gut feeling" that Gwath could be "sucking up" to Legate, calling it "quite a strategy" if Gwath was a wolf and Legate innocent. She says she'll vote for Nogrod, Gwath or Nerwen.

Aganzir doesn't find Gwath's "first-days-are-rubbish" post suspicious, says her first post wasn't constructive either but she wasn't suspicionated as were Oddwen and Lhuna. She asks why saying that makes one suspicious, asks if it's always wolves trying to contribute, asks if it's the same as suspecting the silent. She sarcastically says that it doesn't matter since Oddwen Gwath & Lhuna are wolves and she is the cobbler defending them from Nogrod. She finds Gwath suspicious because of similar behavior from other games where he was a wolf, calls Gwath calling Legate "reasonable" trying to gain an ally early. She says that Gwath saying "if there's anything a wolf cannot afford to be, it is irrational...But don't give me reason to think otherwise."[to Nogrod] makes her think that two fellow wolves pre-decided to not suspect each other.

Lhuna votes for Gwath, because he's the suspect that she "can defend from myself the least" (?). She wishes to give Nerwen more chance to speak, she calls Nogrod "always argumentative", though not always argumentatively sound. She says she's not played with Gwath before and doesn't know if this is how he usually is.

Nogrod replies to Aganzir's question about his first-day-hater-suspicion with the revelation that he was using it as "bait'. He called Gwath's reaction to it suspicious as he felt Gwath was reacting wolvishly. He calls Oddwen's reaction "Oddwenish", he says that that is no argument as wolves would try to be as normal as possible, he feels she is innocent. He feels that Lhuna "creeps me out", says she doesn't respond to his suspicions, wonders if her suspicion of him "without stating any reason" is retaliation, or wolvish. He calls Agan's opposition to the suspiciousness of Gwath good, as Gwath has been mentioned as suspicious and wolves generally latch onto existing suspicion. He says that Legate and Lhuna appear to be following suspicion in regards to Gwath, he wonders if it's genuine or if it's wolvish.

Lommy lists her suspicion level on everyone, she says that she doesn't suspect Gwath, Legate or Oddwen more than anyone else. She says that none of them strike her as particularly suspicious, she would be hesitant to vote for them on those grounds. She feels she would be following other's suspicions and not because she thought they were wolves. She fears grasping at imaginary straws.

Nerwen calls Lhuna's vote for Gwath "too easy". She doesn't like the look of Gwathagor, she feels he just chimes in with everybody, as she is doing here herself. She says that he always does.

Kath feels Gwath "gives the sentiments of most", thinks his thoughts on Legate are wild. She thinks Lhuna's vote for Gwath was "fair reasoning". Mentions Nerwen's suspicion of Gwath, Lhuna Legate Nog or Mith. She calls Nogrod's reaction to Gwath, Oddwen, Lhuna's first posts "kneejerk". She mentions Lommy's reaction to Legate & Gwath's reaction to Lhuna's list. She places Gwath, Legate, Nogrod, Lommy on her "guilty" list. She is tempted to vote either Legate or Gwath because they "argue themselves in circles" and delaying, votes for Legate because he argues with everyone.
(Gah, this is a list of a list!)

Gwath replies to Nerwen's accusation that he chimes in, says he doesn't think he does. He's glad she realizes she's suspicious, sarcastically calls it a ploy to avert further suspiciousness, he says she's chiming in with Nogrod. Gwath replies to Aganzir's thought that wolves don't plan much, calls it "far out", wonders if she's serious or throwing everyone off.

Aganzir replies to Nogrod's approval of her reluctance to go along with the common suspicion of Gwath, says she suspects Gwath but not for the reason Nogrod does.

Legate replies to Lommy's pairing of he and Gwath on the Lhuna-list issue, he says he wasn't agreeing with Gwath that they were helpful, says he was actually talking about Gwath, saying Gwath's interpretation of Lhuna's lists seemed logical. Says he was agreeing with Gwath's assessment, not with Gwath himself. He calls Gwath in the yellow, but doesn't quite want to vote for him because he'd rather vote for someone who hasn't contributed much, top of that list is Oddwen. Says we can always lynch Gwath tomorrow. Legate thinks Lhuna's voting for Gwath is good because she's not going after Legate, her supporter, but he still finds her slightly suspicious.

Aganzir questions Gwath's question about her question about wether wolves plan, asking what he didn't understand.

Gwath doesn't like the "myths" that have sprung up around him, he says he doesn't chime in with people, says he's not trying to flatter Legate, says that Legate does seem rational and that he's a "sucker for rational arguments". (No myth #3?) Says he's not been arguing in circles with Legate, that he's mentioned Legate once. He's suspicious of everyone.

Nogrod thinks Gwath is suspicious based on arguments, thinks he's suspicious in himself, not in with someone else.

Aganzir thinks that the suspicions of Gwath based on him saying Legate is rational is strange because she doesn't think Legate seemed rational.

Legate responds to Kath's thougths on himself, thinks she and Gwath might be fellow wolves but that that might be overcomplicating her meaning.

Legate responds to Gwath's Legate-is-rational thought with the explanation that he himself didn't think he was rational. Legate replies to the Gwath-and-Legate-are-arguing-alot theory with the theory that whoever started that is suspicious (Lhuna?).

Nogrod feels that Gwath's "myths" are fairly reasonable. Nogrod says that unlike Gwath & Nerwen, he was included in Lhuna's suspicion list without a conclusive argument.

Gwath doesn't like the way Nogrod directs suspicion, calls him "controlling" and "master-wolf". He feels Lhuna's vote for him is "flippant". He feels Volo's self-vote is more wolvish than innocent. He suspects Volo, Nogrod and Lhuna. He wants to hear more from the quiet ones.

Gwath mistakes the times, votes for Lhuna, thinking it's the last minute? Says he won't vote for Volo because he needs more evidence, threatens tomorrow.

Gwath apologizes for his wrong time.

Aganzir asks Gwath to answer an earlier question of hers, says he's gotten by in the past by ignoring questions. Says she'll vote Legate, Gwath or Lhuna.

Gwath answers Aganzir's question, he thinks that it's silly to think that wolves don't plan because they have a whole day.

Aganzir acknowledges Gwath's answer.

Lommy thinks Legate overreacted to the Lhuna-Gwath thing? She thinks Gwath looks a little more innocent.

Nogrod agrees with Gwath regarding Volo seeking to be obviously innocent without incriminating himself with a vote for another with his self-vote. Nogrod says that someone accompanying his own arguments to be extremely suspicious, Gwath's not getting anywhere with his flattery. Oh yeah, and Elf-Warrior, just because you think I'm innocent, that's not getting you anywhere either! Even if Gwath agrees with me about the suspiciousness of Volo and Lhuna!

Aganzir says it doesn't matter to her wether it's Legate, Lhuna or Gwath gets lynched, they're all equally suspicious to her.

Aganzir changes her statement, she says Lhuna's death would give the most insight (ha!) feeling that it would shed light on the alignment of Volo, Legate or Gwath.

Legate would rather not vote Gwath that Day, since Gwath started looking "better", but he expresses doubt about that as well.

Gwath replies to Aganzir's musings on wolves and planning, saying her point is that people tend to over-analyze.

Lommy says that of the people garnering votes, she would rather see Gwath go - though he seems no guiltier than anyone else.

Lommy votes for Gwath, for being "slightly fishy/unreasonable", not because he's any more suspicious to her.

Lhuna dies.

Edit: x-ed since Lommy

[Nogrod]

The icehockey game between the US and Canada was just marvellous entertainment even if the better team lost.

With this game then...

Sorry but I'm too tired to think right now.

Still, even if I know this got me nearly lynched yesterDay I'd say watch for Lommy though. I - don't - like - the - way - she- behaves.

Legate: have I missed something or why do you think the wolves should have killed Sally?

Also, if Oddwen is a wolf she is really bold as it was clear - well at least I thought it was clear - that Gwath was one having a lot of suspicion on him and so a possible lynch-candidate... and with this many of us still alive I don't think the wolves would particularly wish to reduce their precious numbers this early in exchange for credibility.

EDIT: X'd with Oddwen's novel... back tomorrow (RL)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Noggie

Legate: have I missed something or why do you think the wolves should have killed Sally?

Most likely because I tied the voting between you and Gwath. To be honest, I thought I'd be dead too. *shifty eyes* Not that I'm complaining.


P.S. Did we beat 'em? Not that I particularly care, but it provides further distraction from the tasks at hand.... :P

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

You know, it was possible that an Oddie-wolf voted for Gwath and didn't think he'd actually get killed; I've seen wolves make bolder moves in my time. I've never played with Oddie before though. Would she do that?

Well, anything is possible. I don't know. I am going to sleep now, so feel free to run around here and analyse... whatever... I just briefly looked at Nerwen and Kath and it looks like Nerwen only briefly interacted with Gwath, but there was something in that repetitive argument of hers... the one she had to repeat several times... which got me to think her
innocent... or having nothing to do with Gwath... it was this:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, was Lhuna killed for giving Seer hints? We can't assume this, but if she was it's more likely it was for picking a wolf than for babbling about pine cones. (I'd guess Gwathagor, in that case.)

Not sure how much weight this has however...

And Kath... well she among other things also brought forward the possibility of Gwath being dreamt of... although she could do even that as a Wolf I'd think... so I don't know...

I need to sleep on it all. Good night.

EDIT: X-ed with really ODD wen and others. Someone's gone mad here.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Legate: have I missed something or why do you think the wolves should have killed Sally?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Most likely because I tied the voting between you and Gwath.

Yes, that was it. Unless the wolves were Gwath-Nog-Sally and yesterday it'd be a brutal sacrifice. But not that I'd believe it much probable.

Originally Posted by Nog

Also, if Oddwen is a wolf she is really bold as it was clear - well at least I thought it was clear - that Gwath was one having a lot of suspicion on him and so a possible lynch-candidate... and with this many of us still alive I don't think the wolves would particularly wish to reduce their precious numbers this early in exchange for credibility.

Oh my, I'm inclined to clear him based on how Gwath behaved towards him and all, and now look he again ACTS so STRANGE... just what's going on with you Nog? You are too... reckless! Normally you are not that easy to jump on someone like that!

But now really, good night.

[satansaloser2005]

Stop posting and go to bed, Legate!

Okay, I'm off to (hopefully) do some analysis, after some haphazardly done course work. Back later with a reply.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Most likely because I tied the voting between you and Gwath.

So? I still don't see the point...

And a word of caution to my suggestion of watching Lommy: the voting records just caught my eye. Lommy voted for Gwath on Day1 as the second last voter (one minute before the DL) bringing him one vote away from Lhuna. In the end there were three people who didn't vote that Day but I'd say that would be really bold move from a fellow-wolf because she couldn't know who would vote and whom! I'll take that as an argument on her favour. It would just have been a bit too risky.

So needs to think things once again from almost the beginnings... tomorrow.

EDIT X'd with Sally & Legate... reckless? jumping on someone? Sorry but I didn't get that one either...

[satansaloser2005]

....

As in, I voted for Gwath, therefore making it fairly certain he'd be the lynchee.

That's not why I'm surprised I wasn't killed though. I've just been a lot more normal(ish) this game and so the wolves didn't need to keep me around to stir up trouble like usual. I don't know. There has to be SOME reason why they'd kill Volo....I just need to figure it out.

[Oddwen]

Disclaimer - I made the above list for myself, just searched for "Gwath" and put my interpretation on what I found. Mainly so I wouldn't have five pages open in my browser. I unfortunately don't have time to do Day 2 or either of the dead innocents at the time, so am reading day 2 right now, and hopefully I can do the rest.

What stands out after making that list is, predictably, the discussions between Gwath and Nogrod - Nogrod has had equally longer discussions with most of you, but you will note by my italicized section above what I find to be the most suspicious between the two there. And yes, this is all based on Day one discussions, but I'm finding really nothing on Day 2 to say against that.

I'd pull out my ol' favorite term "thrashing" and staple it to Nogrod, except the way I usually use it is when a sometime-proven innocent briefly touches upon a wolf, and the wolf goes berserk - and in this case, a known wolf is at the throat of an unknown, and they're both at it. Then again, this applies to Nogrod & Lommy as well - I'm wondering if this could be a wolf goading a known argumentative, or a wolf being argumentative. Right now, I'll just call him LOUD.

Originally Posted by Sally

You know, it was possible that an Oddie-wolf voted for Gwath and didn't think he'd actually get killed; I've seen wolves make bolder moves in my time. I've never played with Oddie before though. Would she do that?

I don't vote for people I don't want to die. (Oooh, considering my track record for this game, I've got a perfect record!) I made a gamble. It seemed to me that Lhuna made a stronger offence at a wolf than a defense for any innocent, and I acted on it.

Originally Posted by Sally

Oh noes!

I'd rather see Gwath go than Noggie at the moment, so....

++GWATH

And I must ask - is it possible that a Sally-wolf voted for a Gwath? Would you do that?

Did you intentionally tie Nog & Gwath, or did you not know that think you were making a safe vote for the runner up, not knowing Nogrod & Volo were voting just then? Or not?

x-ed since the next-to-last Leggy.

[Thinlómien]

Oddwen's summary confused me. I think I'll go through Gwath's posts on my own, even though I must admit that currently I feel terribly lazy.

Sally - you left me out from your day2 voting summary. I voted Noggie, after Mith but before Legate. (Although we all cross-posted, so...)

Originally Posted by Legate

Does anyone thing the formulation is odd? The last sentence does not logically fit in there, does it? It looks like praising silence??? Maybe a wolf hint to a friend among these two - "stay silent, that's the best defense"? Or how do you read it? I find that improbable and maybe I am reading too much to it (maybe a writing mischmatch), but it simply is odd.

Yes, it's surely odd, but I don't think it looks like a secret advice to a fellow. Maybe because I don't believe in wolves advising one another in their posts, it always seems a bit far-fetched to me. But I don't have any idea what to make of it.

Okay, maybe I'm off to reread and think of something more insightful to say...

[Thinlómien]

(I'm not commenting on anything that Gwath and Legate said about each other since I already analysed that yesterDay.)

Day1

I find it odd that after only one post of Gwath's, Nogrod says "first red lights have been alighted". It seems like overreacting a bit. Of course he claims to be provoking a reaction, which might be true. But I could also see this is a wolf trying to evaluete his fellow's behaviour objectively and ending up overreacting. Okay, I'm probably reading too much into it, but it was just a thing I noticed. Of course this is this weird "making an excuse" of hating day1s -issue, which I don't quite understand, but which looks more innocent than not.

Gwath's words about Nogrod are incredibly fishy:

Originally Posted by Gwath

However, Nogrod, you were awfully quick to identify my post as "wolvish"? You took no convincing whatsoever, so either you are trigger-happy and innocent, as Lhun said, or you really do know whether I am innocent or guilty. And THAT looks suspicious, because the only way you could know that is if you are a wolf yourself. I lean towards trigger-happy innocent, based on the sheer quirkiness and irrationality of your attack on my first post - if there's anything a wolf cannot afford to be, it is irrational. Or so my vast experience of Three Whole Games would lead me to believe. But don't give me reason to think otherwise.

Rather forceful attack (could speak against them being fellows, but I could aslo see Gwath as being slitghly offended by fellow-Nog starting to suspect him early and putting him into spotlight or joining in the fun of accusing fellows) and then backing away and saying "don't give me a reason to think otherwise2, which always sounds quite bad. Hmm... and I'm just wondering, would Gwath's slip (what he said considering Nogrod knowing whether he was innocent or guilty) make sense if Nogrod was his fellow and really knew his guilt? I think it would. (Or it could. I'm aware of falling to my worst ww habit: acting based on a suspicion and interpreting everything as if the suspicion was true. Argh.)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Of those I expressed a mild suspicion earlier I'd say Gwath's actions haven't exactly made him look better (he's too verbiose and "explanative")

I think this looks quite honest. If he and Gwath were fellows, I think he would rather not even mention this or say that Gwath has seemed more innocent lately.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

However, I can’t say I like the look of Gwathagor, either– he just chimes in with other people– but then, as someone else noted, he always does. (Uh... which I guess means that now I’m chiming in...)

One could say this about a fellow wolf. But on the other hand, at least I keep making statements like this all the time, and I'm mostly innocent.
Gwath later replied this way:

Originally Posted by Gwath

Excuse me? When did I do that? But at least you preemptively acknowledged that you also are "chiming in" with other people (in this case Nogrod). That's good. Acknowledging your own suspiciousness is always a good ploy for averting further suspicion. (Ha!)

I don't think it looks like something he would be likely to say to a fellow wolf.

Kath, she really raises my alarms. She really doesn't have much against Gwath (the only thing she mentions is that he and legate argue in circles) yet she places him in the suspicious category and says she's tempted to vote him, but goes on and votes Legate. This looks like she's sharing the common suspicion to avoid attention and look good if Gwath is lynched, but still trying not contributing to him getting lynched, probably hoping that he can be saved.

I don't like the way that Nogrod slides by the end of Day from having Gwath as more or less top suspect to this Lhuna-Volo connection theory, which is, in my opinion, rather far-fetched and an odd base for a vote in the first place.

Gwath kept being rather forcefully against Nogrod but voted Lhuna. Not sure what to make of this.

I don't have time to go through Day2, so it has to wait. Solely based on this Nog and Kath look quite bad. But half of the work undone, I can't be sure. But a trio like that sounds quite credible to me (although I'm not sure at all... Kath's vote yesterDay would have been rather bold in that case).