Tuor and Idril - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Joy · 05-27-2002, 10:38 PM

Due to the recent questions concerning Elvish love and immortality,I have researched Elvish Women/Edain men relationships.

During this process, I have found that Tuor, the son of Huor of the Edain married Idril Celebrindal of Gondolin. It is noted that Tuor was a messenger of Ulmo and was sent to Turgon by him. There he met Idril and subsquently married her. Then in 560 1st Age, he passed over the Sea to the West.

Here is my question. Why would a man/Edain be allowed to pass to the West? Did he become immortal or did he pass like the Ring Bearers?

Elrian · 05-27-2002, 10:47 PM

Here's a couple of threads on Elven/Edain Marriages and Tuor that should explain what happened. Link and Link

Joy · 05-27-2002, 11:07 PM

Thank you so much Elrian. This was just what I was looking for [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Joy · 05-28-2002, 12:58 PM

I still have one question.

I have mused over this through the day and I see what happened, yet I do not see the reason behind Tuor receieving the gift of the Elves.

Why was he counted as one of the Eldar? Was it his service to Ulmo, or the fact that he married an Eldar?

Heen-1 · 05-31-2002, 09:06 PM

i dont think anyone knows what happend to him.

Melephelwen · 06-06-2002, 06:21 AM

Haven't got the Sil with me, but I think he sailed over the sea with Idril, and no one heard of them again. At least, that's what I got out of it. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

The Silver-shod Muse · 06-06-2002, 08:22 AM

But what if there were forced marriages by the corrupt Edain (later Numenoreans) simply for immortality? It just might have been something that those later Numenorean kings would pull.

TarElendil · 06-12-2002, 08:05 PM

Its unclear what happened to Idril and Tuor. most people believe that they found their way to Valinor and Tuor was given the gift of immortality. If this happened, I believe it was because of both Tuor's service of Ulmo and his love for Idril.

TarElendil · 06-12-2002, 08:10 PM

Quote:

corrupt Edain (later Numenoreans)

not all numenoreans were corrupt. The Numenoreans lived in peace for many mnay many years before SOME began to mutter against the Ban of the Valar. The Faithful never took part in any acts against the Valar.

Mornie Alantie · 06-18-2002, 10:26 AM

Ok It clearly says in the Silmarilion that Tour was in Turgon's favor. So therefore he was allowed to Marry Idril, Turgon's daughter. After the fall of Gondolin Tour and Idril Sailed on his ship Vingelot to look for Valinor. They were never heard of again. Now his Son Earendil married Elwing the daughter of Dior the son of Beren and Luthian and they were the ones who finally reached Valinor. So Idril and Tour were not heard of after they went to sea

TarElendil · 06-18-2002, 11:37 AM

I am sure it meant "not heard in middle-earth again"
just depends on the way you read it

Mornie Alantie · 06-18-2002, 07:18 PM

yah it did say not heard of in Middle Earth. I think Tolkien was trying to hint that they were probably stopped in the Enchanted Islands that guarded Valinor

Losthuniel · 06-20-2002, 07:59 AM

i just assumed that they reached Valinor and Tuor was given immortality. yet it said that the Valar were not allowed to take the Gift of Death from Men. now im confused.

Daniel Telcontar · 06-20-2002, 08:53 AM

Tuor was counted among the Eldar, which means he must have been given the gift/curse of immortality. If that is true, then Iluvatar must have given it to him. But it was probably Manwe who made it possible, since he alone knows Iluvatar's deepest thoughts. Remember, when Earendil's fate is decided, Manwe takes charge and allows him to freely choose. If he could do that to earendil, why not Tuor?

Gorthol · 07-03-2003, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Tuor was counted among the Eldar, which means he must have been given the gift/curse of immortality. If that is true, then Iluvatar must have given it to him. But it was probably Manwe who made it possible, since he alone knows Iluvatar's deepest thoughts. Remember, when Earendil's fate is decided, Manwe takes charge and allows him to freely choose. If he could do that to earendil, why not Tuor?

Tuor was counted among the "Elder Children" and thus he got the "gift" of immortality, Ilúvatar was certainly the one who decided this, probably through the request of Ulmo through Manwë. Since Tuor was brought up by elves, brought to the world to deliver the message to Turgon, loved the elves and finally faught with great honor to help them out, it is understandable that he was (as a unique exception) counted among their numbers and was to share their fate. Eärendils fate was not the same as Tuors, Eärendil had the free choice of belonging to either race, Tuor did not, but was instead granted this "gift" through the deepest wishes of his heart, i.e. he was an Elf in every respect but the fact born a man..

Legolas · 07-03-2003, 09:42 AM

Ulmo didn't come to Tuor and say "Tuor, would you like to be immortal?" Even so, Tuor's change was just as much of a decision as Earendil's choice was. I think he understood (the possibilities of) what he was getting into when he stepped onto that ship.

05-27-2002, 10:38 PM	#1
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,014	Tuor and Idril Due to the recent questions concerning Elvish love and immortality,I have researched Elvish Women/Edain men relationships. During this process, I have found that Tuor, the son of Huor of the Edain married Idril Celebrindal of Gondolin. It is noted that Tuor was a messenger of Ulmo and was sent to Turgon by him. There he met Idril and subsquently married her. Then in 560 1st Age, he passed over the Sea to the West. Here is my question. Why would a man/Edain be allowed to pass to the West? Did he become immortal or did he pass like the Ring Bearers? __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

05-27-2002, 10:47 PM	#2
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	Here's a couple of threads on Elven/Edain Marriages and Tuor that should explain what happened. Link and Link __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

05-27-2002, 11:07 PM	#3
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,014	Thank you so much Elrian. This was just what I was looking for [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

05-28-2002, 12:58 PM	#4
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,014	I still have one question. I have mused over this through the day and I see what happened, yet I do not see the reason behind Tuor receieving the gift of the Elves. Why was he counted as one of the Eldar? Was it his service to Ulmo, or the fact that he married an Eldar? __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

06-06-2002, 06:21 AM	#6
Melephelwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: the Middle of Nowhere Posts: 291	Haven't got the Sil with me, but I think he sailed over the sea with Idril, and no one heard of them again. At least, that's what I got out of it. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ We're all following a strange melody We're all summoned by a tune We're following the piper And we dance beneath the moon

05-31-2002, 09:06 PM	#5
Heen-1 Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 27	i dont think anyone knows what happend to him.

06-06-2002, 08:22 AM	#7
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	But what if there were forced marriages by the corrupt Edain (later Numenoreans) simply for immortality? It just might have been something that those later Numenorean kings would pull. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

06-12-2002, 08:05 PM	#8
TarElendil Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Armenelos Posts: 136	Its unclear what happened to Idril and Tuor. most people believe that they found their way to Valinor and Tuor was given the gift of immortality. If this happened, I believe it was because of both Tuor's service of Ulmo and his love for Idril.

06-18-2002, 10:26 AM	#10
Mornie Alantie Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere above earth cause people say i should come down to it Posts: 226	Ok It clearly says in the Silmarilion that Tour was in Turgon's favor. So therefore he was allowed to Marry Idril, Turgon's daughter. After the fall of Gondolin Tour and Idril Sailed on his ship Vingelot to look for Valinor. They were never heard of again. Now his Son Earendil married Elwing the daughter of Dior the son of Beren and Luthian and they were the ones who finally reached Valinor. So Idril and Tour were not heard of after they went to sea __________________ Instead of pepper spray, you pack a glass bottle and scream "Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima!!!" at muggers.

06-18-2002, 11:37 AM	#11
TarElendil Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Armenelos Posts: 136	I am sure it meant "not heard in middle-earth again" just depends on the way you read it

06-18-2002, 07:18 PM	#12
Mornie Alantie Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere above earth cause people say i should come down to it Posts: 226	yah it did say not heard of in Middle Earth. I think Tolkien was trying to hint that they were probably stopped in the Enchanted Islands that guarded Valinor __________________ Instead of pepper spray, you pack a glass bottle and scream "Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima!!!" at muggers.

06-20-2002, 07:59 AM	#13
Losthuniel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The Helcaraxë- aka Canada Posts: 261	i just assumed that they reached Valinor and Tuor was given immortality. yet it said that the Valar were not allowed to take the Gift of Death from Men. now im confused. __________________ ~* Losthuniel "Lord, what fools these mortals be!" Puck, Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream Abhorsen's House -- Lirael/Sabriel fanboard

06-20-2002, 08:53 AM	#14
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	Tuor was counted among the Eldar, which means he must have been given the gift/curse of immortality. If that is true, then Iluvatar must have given it to him. But it was probably Manwe who made it possible, since he alone knows Iluvatar's deepest thoughts. Remember, when Earendil's fate is decided, Manwe takes charge and allows him to freely choose. If he could do that to earendil, why not Tuor? __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer

07-03-2003, 09:42 AM	#16
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,850	Ulmo didn't come to Tuor and say "Tuor, would you like to be immortal?" Even so, Tuor's change was just as much of a decision as Earendil's choice was. I think he understood (the possibilities of) what he was getting into when he stepped onto that ship. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.