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Old 04-22-2021, 03:31 PM   #481
Galadriel55
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Ulfang and his Ul-sons? I'm not sure even they are unambiguously evil though. The Nirnaeth is sort of said to be their fault, though, so perhaps they deserve the brand.
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Old 04-22-2021, 03:33 PM   #482
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Ulfang and his Ul-sons? I'm not sure even they are unambiguously evil though. The Nirnaeth is sort of said to be their fault, though, so perhaps they deserve the brand.
Um... I'll accept that; they were willing Morgoth-followers. I was actually thinking of Azog and Bolg. Over to you.

hS
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Old 04-22-2021, 03:34 PM   #483
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(Also, you're up in the Riddle thread)
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Old 04-22-2021, 03:49 PM   #484
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A simple one, I think, in rather reverse-theme fashion.

Which two characters are speculated to be related, but are actually not so?
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:04 PM   #485
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Oh, I know! It's Morgoth and the random baby that he adopted, right?

Such a nice, upstanding fellow...going around adopting babies...

And personally, I speculate that Feanor and Gothmog are related...
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Old 04-22-2021, 04:18 PM   #486
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Oh, I know! It's Morgoth and the random baby that he adopted, right?

Such a nice, upstanding fellow...going around adopting babies...
I think you're still stuck on the evil parent/child question.

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And personally, I speculate that Feanor and Gothmog are related...
You might do so, but I don't think there is such documented speculation in the actual text.
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Old 04-23-2021, 02:47 AM   #487
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The only speculation inside the books is the Primula/Drogo deal, but that's not what it is about. Unless you count appendices?
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Old 04-23-2021, 04:24 AM   #488
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The only speculation inside the books is the Primula/Drogo deal, but that's not what it is about. Unless you count appendices?
Primula and Drogo were related - they shared a great-grandparent. Didn't know it was in the text of the book though (I should've checked rather than tracing family trees!).

The question makes me think of the "fairy wife" Took legend, but I don't think it's specific enough. Tolkien at one point considered the possibility of Eol being part-Noldor, which would make him distantly related to Aredhel, but it's not an in-universe speculation.

It's not Finrod and Gildor Inglorion ("Son of Inglor" = Finrod), is it?

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Old 04-23-2021, 04:53 AM   #489
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Primula and Drogo were related - they shared a great-grandparent. Didn't know it was in the text of the book though (I should've checked rather than tracing family trees!).

That's because it wasn't. The speculation was about the drowning.
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Old 04-23-2021, 06:36 AM   #490
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The speculation comes from the main texts. You don't need to dig into appendices or HOME or such. For "Inglorion", it would still be the audiience speculating about the relationship to Finrod. This speculation is in the text - and as an audience, we know it to be entirely wrong. And Urwen, the speculation is about two characters being related, not about anything they did.
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Old 04-23-2021, 06:47 AM   #491
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I suspect it comes from LOTR, so time to start digging.
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Old 04-23-2021, 07:09 AM   #492
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Okay, so I found this:

Quote:
'It is true all the same,' replied Gandalf. 'About their origins, at any rate, I know more than hobbits do themselves. And even Bilbo's story suggests the kinship. There was a great deal in the background of their minds and memories that was very similar. They understood one another remarkably well, very much better than a hobbit would understand, say, a Dwarf, or an Orc, or even an Elf. Think of the riddles they both knew, for one thing.'

I might be grasping at straws, though, but I won't stop trying.
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Old 04-23-2021, 07:15 AM   #493
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Is it Bilbo and the rabbits Gollum catches? The trolls and eagles certainly think he is one...

I feel like the 'speculation' is likely quite insulting, and possibly relating to an animal. Sort of like Treebeard saying that he thought Merry and Pip were little Orcs, but again he doesn't get specific.

hS
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Old 04-23-2021, 07:22 AM   #494
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Okay, so I found this:

I might be grasping at straws, though, but I won't stop trying.
But we actually trust Gandalf's assessment that Gollum's people were likely related to hobbits. So no.

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Is it Bilbo and the rabbits Gollum catches? The trolls and eagles certainly think he is one...

I feel like the 'speculation' is likely quite insulting, and possibly relating to an animal. Sort of like Treebeard saying that he thought Merry and Pip were little Orcs, but again he doesn't get specific.

hS
These are all very good thoughts that I haven't thought of. No, the instance I have in mind is actually complimentary, and is about two specific characters.
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Old 04-23-2021, 07:32 AM   #495
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I thought about Finduilas' statement about Turin and Beren being kinsmen, but that one is also true...
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Old 04-23-2021, 07:34 AM   #496
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I thought about Finduilas' statement about Turin and Beren being kinsmen, but that one is also true...
Yes, it is true. Therefore, it is wrong.
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Old 04-23-2021, 07:39 AM   #497
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There was that one instance where...


Wait a minute, I think I may know the answer...
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:03 AM   #498
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Except there is no way for that to be possible, not even as a mere speculation
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:09 AM   #499
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Except there is no way for that to be possible, not even as a mere speculation
You know, it is really helpful when you post so clearly. Then I can tell you for sure whether you're on the right track, and you will know for sure whether you're right or wrong.

Besides, did I not tell you that the we the audience KNOW this speculation is incorrect? You are looking for impossible suggestions!
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:11 AM   #500
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Well, there is that instance where Theoden and Fingolfin were compared to Orome...
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:13 AM   #501
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But no one in the books went 'Oh, they remind me of Orome, they must be related to him!' or anything similar
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:16 AM   #502
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But no one in the books went 'Oh, they remind me of Orome, they must be related to him!' or anything similar
Right. You are looking for an instance that's not merely a comparison, but a semi-serious suggestion of familial relation. However, the made-up example here is exactly the kind of thing you need.


To help you out, it is NOT a Sil/other First Age event.
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:18 AM   #503
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Right. You are looking for an instance that's not merely a comparison, but a semi-serious suggestion of familial relation. However, the made-up example here is exactly the kind of thing you need.
So you're saying that someone said/thought 'you remind me of X, are you related' to someone else?
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:21 AM   #504
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So you're saying that someone said/thought 'you remind me of X, are you related' to someone else?
Different grammar, similar concept. X reminded someone of Y, and prompted a semi-serious suggestion of familial relation.
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:26 AM   #505
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Apart from Turin/Beren comparison, I can't recall any other such instance without re-reading the books...
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:28 AM   #506
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Apart from Turin/Beren comparison, I can't recall any other such instance without re-reading the books...
Okay. How about I give a chance for others to give it a try, and if there is no luck in a couple days, I will point you in a more specific direction.
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:31 AM   #507
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Okay, but I am allowed to research in the interim, right?
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:39 AM   #508
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Okay, but I am allowed to research in the interim, right?
Absolutely! Guess away.
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Old 04-23-2021, 09:36 AM   #509
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Also, just a reminder that you're up in riddle thread.
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Old 04-23-2021, 09:46 AM   #510
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Also, just a reminder that you're up in riddle thread.
So you said. Be patient please, there will be one within a few days, and if not I will pass the turn over.
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Old 04-23-2021, 02:39 PM   #511
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One more clarification: is it the exact quote which says 'X reminds me of Y', verbatim?
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Old 04-23-2021, 02:44 PM   #512
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One more clarification: is it the exact quote which says 'X reminds me of Y', verbatim?
Verbatim? No. Not those exact words. But their meaning, yes.
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Old 04-23-2021, 02:49 PM   #513
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Verbatim? No. Not those exact words. But their meaning, yes.

But it is a quote? Not thoughts or monologue?
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Old 04-23-2021, 02:58 PM   #514
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But it is a quote? Not thoughts or monologue?
What difference does it make? I told you, I will have plenty of hints coming if in a day or two there is no success from you or someone else, but let's not do 20 Questions please.
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Old 04-23-2021, 03:44 PM   #515
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What difference does it make? I told you, I will have plenty of hints coming if in a day or two there is no success from you or someone else, but let's not do 20 Questions please.

You said 'in a couple of days'. That could mean five or six days too, for all I know...
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Old 04-23-2021, 03:48 PM   #516
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You said 'in a couple of days'. That could mean five or six days too, for all I know...
No, I mean a couple days, as in 1-2. In any case, it definitely doesn't mean "a couple hours". Please have some patience while looking for this textual reference. Remember that it doesn't all have to be book digging, if you fall upon the right association you could very well bring it up from memory.
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Old 04-23-2021, 03:57 PM   #517
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No, I mean a couple days, as in 1-2. In any case, it definitely doesn't mean "a couple hours". Please have some patience while looking for this textual reference. Remember that it doesn't all have to be book digging, if you fall upon the right association you could very well bring it up from memory.
My memory is a terrible thing to behold...

Though I have possible candidates for X, like Pippin or Faramir...
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Old 04-23-2021, 04:06 PM   #518
Galadriel55
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Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
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Originally Posted by Urwen View Post
My memory is a terrible thing to behold...

Though I have possible candidates for X, like Pippin or Faramir...
By X do you mean one of the two characters who are suggested to be related? I can answer that fairly, I think. Neither Pippin nor Faramir is the subject of that speculation.
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Old 04-23-2021, 04:12 PM   #519
Urwen
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
*quietly closes her ROTK window*
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Old 04-24-2021, 04:25 PM   #520
Urwen
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Urwen has just left Hobbiton.
Well, it's been a day, so...do you wanna give hints now or wait one more day?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench.

I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.
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