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#1 | |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,605
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The Last Alliance
This is the first draft of the chapter The Last Alliance in the part The Black Years.
The Basic Text in this chapter is of course from Of the Rings of Power out of the Sil77, nonetheless and I will give source information for each part that is used. The markings are: BY-HL-zz for Black Years, Head-Lines, marking all headlines for the chapters in this part. LA-SL-zz for The Last Alliance, Story-Line, to document all changes that construct the main text. Some conventions of my writing: Normal Text is from the text that is mentioned in the source information of each insert. Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks {example} = text that should be deleted [example] = normalised text, normally only used for general changes <source example> = additions with source information example = text inserted for grammatical or metrical reason /example/ = outline expansion Normally if an inserted text includes the beginning of a new § these is indicated by a missing “>” at the end of the § and a missing “<” at the beginning of the next. Quote:
BY-HL-20: I did not find a good head line of Tolkien for this. I do not like it much to invent one, but I did not see any better choice. LA-SL-01: We have to add here a kind of indication to what this refers, since the ‘There’ has lost its reference. LA-SL-02: A lot of text was have added between the last mention of Pelargir, therefore I think we should give the name here again. LA-SL-03: This seems to be the right place to give the reason for the title ‘Prince’ that the Lords of Dol-Amroth held. And as I understand the Note about Dor-en-Ernil, Ernil was the name of the Lord that received that title. LA-SL-04: The oath of the later dead men of Dunharrow belongs chronologically here and there seems no better text than that from LotR. LA-SL-05: I used this older text because it has a bit more details about the oath. LA-SL-06: The preliminary version of this are either nearly exactly as this as the final or completely different. LA-SL-07: At least for this info we have a different wording form this older version. LA-SL-08: We avoided to give this information as outlook to the future when we told the story of Gil-galad receiving the rings, so it has to come in here. LA-SL-09: I do not gladly take up sentences from LotR, but here I don’t see any better chance. LA-SL-10: The same is true here. But in this case it might be acceptable since Elrond the narrator is the sole eye witness we have. LA-SL-11: A Detail found nowhere else again. LA-SL-12: We do not have many details about the Battle, so think we have to take whatever we can get. LA-SL-13: I would like to tell this here and not later in retrospect. LA-SL-14: A note from the Appendix is safer to take: It must have had a source in the internal recording in Middle-earth, so such details must have been told some where. LA-SL-15: This is a construction from some passages in the retelling of Elrond during the council in Imlardis. LA-SL-16: I moved this from later in the text, since I think it belongs rather to end of the Second age instead of the beginning of the Third. LA-SL-17: At the end of the text I had again no choice but to use Elrond’s account. For me this chapter should end here and we should use the text of the following paragraph from Of the Rings of Power and Thrid Age ‘Thus began the Third Age of the World, after the Eldest Days and the Black Years …’ somewhere at the start of the part ‘The fading Years’. Respectfully Findegil Last edited by Findegil; 06-12-2018 at 05:18 PM. |
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#2 | |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 515
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BY-HL-20: What about the name of the HoME book: Sauron Defeated
LA-SL-01: I think we can take the entire opening of the paragraph instead of editing. I know it is a slight repeat of what was said in the last chapter, but there was an interlude between these things, and I think it is preferable to leave things as they are instead of changing the wording for such a little reason. LA-SL-02: I would say 'at Pelargir' since we have already given this name before. LA-SL-03: I think that this note actually simply says that they are reffering to the Prince of Dol Amroth when they say 'prince.' The word ernil is a Sindarin word for 'prince.' Therefore, I think the use of it here as a name is far too great a liberty. I also think that we should keep the origin of the name 'Dol Amroth' and I do not think it can be inserted later easily. Without a name, I do not think this note can be re-worked. Therefore I think we should keep it in its original place as a footnote to Cirion and Eorl. It is a minor note and will not be a big deal if it is not kept in the chronological narrative. LA-SL-04: Agreed LA-SL-05: Agreed, but I would return to the Of the Rings of Power text with "{and in}In the circle of Angrenost" because it flows better. LA-SL-05.5: Right after this paragraph, I think we can add in this bit from the Rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor: Quote:
LA-SL-07: Agreed, but for the last tense change, it should be 'lay' not 'lied.' LA-SL-08: Agreed LA-SL-09: I am not sure this addition is justified, since it is such a small detail, and taking from a published text without good reason (like so) seems like it needs a very good reason. LA-SL-10: Agreed LA-SL-11: Agreed LA-SL-12: Agreed, but we agreed to change the name Malgalad to Amdír. LA-SL-13: I disagree with placing this here. We give this detail in the very next chapter, where the two are introduced as characters, and it fits much more smoothly there. I see no compelling reason to shift it here. LA-SL-14: Agreed LA-SL-15: Agreed LA-SL-16: I think we should end the chapter right where it leaves off before this addition. In my draft for the next chapter, I had this paragraph in the beginning as is, and I see no reason to place this here. The phrase "Then Sauron was for that time vanquished, and he forsook his body, and his spirit fled far away and hid in waste places; and he took no visible shape again for many long years." is a much more definitive ending to the entirety of the Second Age narrative, and I think it leaves us on a good final note. LA-SL-17: I do not think that this addition is needed, as it simply restates in slightly different words the meaning of the previous sentences. Therefore I do not see a good reason to take this passage from LotR, especially if the entire paragraph is used in its proper place next chapter. As to the following paragraph, I used it as the opening paragraph for the first chapter of the Fading Years. Last edited by ArcusCalion; 06-12-2018 at 08:55 PM. |
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#3 | |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,605
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BY-HL-20: 'Sauron Defeated' is a good idea, I didn't thought about that.
LA-SL-01:So you would start with 'Yet there came at length a stay in the onslaugth of Sauron upon the westlands.'? That does not strike me as a good starting sentence. I as well very much dislike to tell in short hand the story just given in full narrative. LA-SL-02: Agreed. LA-SL-03: Okay, I was not aware that Ernil is Sindarin for Prince. But I still think we should us the not here. I would edit it thus: Quote:
LA-SL-05.5: Agreed. LA-SL-07: Oops. of course you are right. The Rest later today. Respectfully Findegil |
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#4 | |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 515
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BY-HL-20: Is this agreed then?
LA-SL-01: Like so: Quote:
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#5 |
Wight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 217
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One thing, if I remember well, Cirdan was the owner of Narya from the beginning, despite of the later note, because is published in TToYotTA in the Appendices of TLotR.
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#6 | |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 515
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Gondowe, the Tale of years of the Third Age says this:
Quote:
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