The portrayal of Bree - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

09-17-2002, 04:16 PM

I would like to begin by saying that I love the movie and don't really mind the differences from the book. One thing I did NOT like however was the way they did Bree and the Prancing Pony in particular. In the books the Prancing Pony seems to be a very nice place. Hob and Nob are great and there are Hobbits in the main room. People are friendly for the most part. In the movie the Inn is dark and gothic, quite unsettling. Does any one else think they portrayed it wrong?

Brinniel · 09-17-2002, 04:23 PM

I would have to agree. When I read the book, Bree seemed like a very friendly place.

Apparently, PJ wanted the viewers to feel that since Bree was away from the Shire, the hobbits were no longer near that safe and comfortable place they have always known and loved.

09-17-2002, 04:44 PM

That would make sense. Still I wish it would have been the same, oh well, cant have everything. Thanks for posting

Donisile Of Mirkwood · 09-18-2002, 12:36 AM

Yeah, i thought the exact same thing, if they had included the song,when Frodo puts the ring on everyone was very suspicous and hostile,y couldn't they have done that?

Iargwath · 09-18-2002, 01:18 AM

Hmm i think PJ made Bree like that intentionally...I think that it was made to seem hostile in order to ellucidate how insecure the hobbits were at that moment...That was until Strider came into the picture ...But otherwise it was weird...

Birdland · 09-18-2002, 01:28 AM

OK, I'll agree that P.J.'s version was a little over the top, but you have to remember that film is a visual medium. It's a little hard to portray what a character is thinking without using a lot of boring "voice-over" exposition.So you have to show it. And I think what Jackson was trying to show is what Bree would look like to a bunch of tired, hungry, frightened Halflings who had never been out of the Shire.Sometimes I think Tolkien kind of glosses over or tones down the Hobbit's reactions to the rest of Middle-earth. I mean, just think: you've spent your entire life in a world where everything and everybody is sized just right for you, and suddenly you are thrust into another world, where everyone is twice your height, and you have to cope with everything around you being geared to those people. Stairs and chairs alone would be a pain in the butt to deal with. I can't help but think that sometimes the Hobbits must have got tired of being surrounded by giant freaks with over-active pineal glands.

Bêthberry · 09-18-2002, 08:12 AM

I would agree with Birdie that some of PJ's work at the Pony is over the top--to me, it is degree of physical intimidation Strider shows Frodo. (Hmm. Was it this scene that made the split between PJ and the original actor chosen for Strider/Aragorn?) It is true that there is much in Bree that sounds pleasant. We are told that here, and here alone, hobbits and men have carved a peaceable coexistence. Butterbur has a bluff good heartiness. But he's rough around the edges.Also clear is the fact that Bree is a liminal place, a place on the border, a crossroads, a place where people and things and cultures mix, a place of transition over borders and boundaries. "As strange as news from Bree" is one of the local sayings in Eastfarthing. There are also lots of hints that times in The Shire and Bree are turning bad and people recognize this change for the worse--or the unknown and are thus taking more precaution. There are Southerners in town and in the Pony itself, chatting up Bill Ferny.So, it seems to me that the chapter, "At the Prancing Pony" is one of the places where easy distinctions between good and bad are hard to make. The Pony isn't cosy although it is superficially hospitable. This is also true of the Old Forest and omitting from the film the lessons learnt there put greater onus on bringing out this aspect at The Pony. There is no sudden line between good and bad, safety and danger, but a journey where evil becomes more and more concrete. Respectfully, Bethberry[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

Snowdog · 12-09-2002, 11:44 AM

I actually liked the way Bree and the Prancing Pony was portrayed, and the fact it was raining added something to it along with Peter Jackson munching a carrot.The Pony was very much a mixed establishment, with Sarumann's agents starting to nose about and such. It was indeed a place of general friendlyness by Barliman, yet questionable folk visited as well as the fair.

Inderjit Sanghera · 12-10-2002, 07:34 AM

Jackson, also didn't do himslef any favours by averting any possible reacist overtones, whihc could come in the latter movies. The majority of the Breelanders are dark skinned, and so are a lot of Hobbits in the shire, yet P.J didn't pick up on it. I wouldn't want anyone acussing Tolkien of being racist, when he wasn't.

Bêthberry · 12-10-2002, 11:18 AM

One of the embarassments, Snowdog, of having old threads brought up, is finding typos one missed the first time round. : /Is that rain Jackson's nod to Goldberry's washing day, since he omitted the House of Bombadil? It's a darker vision of seasonal change than what Tolkien gives us, though.Good to see you here, Snowdog, even with a new sig. Bethberry

Diamond18 · 12-10-2002, 12:29 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Jackson, also didn't do himslef any favours by averting any possible reacist overtones, whihc could come in the latter movies. The majority of the Breelanders are dark skinned, and so are a lot of Hobbits in the shire, yet P.J didn't pick up on it. I wouldn't want anyone acussing Tolkien of being racist, when he wasn't. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Eh, I don't understand. I thought the only dark skinned people in the books were the Druadan, Haradrim and Easterlings.

-Imrahil- · 12-10-2002, 04:40 PM

I totally agree. Bree is supposed to be cheery, with hobbits and men being friends ect. In the movie the Prancing Pony looks unfriendly, univiting, and dark which just isn't the way it was described in the books. I did like Butterber however.

Inderjit Sanghera · 12-12-2002, 07:24 AM

What? The easterlings wern't black, we don't kniow exactly what colour skin they are. The Dunlendings were black, and the men of Bree were descendants of them. Some of the house of Beor and the House of Bor were black, and they were good.

Inderjit Sanghera · 12-12-2002, 07:26 AM

Oh and the most numerous group of Hobbbits, I think it was the Harfoots were said to have nut-brown skin.

Arwen Imladris · 12-12-2002, 12:27 PM

Bree was a fairly nice place in the books, but you also have to remember that these are hobbits. Sam had misgivings about it when he first saw that the Prancing pony was 2 stories high, but it turned out to be O.K. in the end. There were some suspicious men there, Bill Ferny for one. In the movie they more just omitted the cheery part rather than getting the whole thing wrong. They did a great job at showing how big of a world it was for these 4 little hobbits. In the book this is also showed in the old forest, but in the movie they don't show that part so they have to make up for it in other places. The story just isn't the same if the hobbits were always these brave warriers. One of the themes in LOTR I think is that little people can do big things. You have to show that the people are little before you can have them do big things.

TealDude3 · 12-14-2002, 10:56 AM

I think you guys missed something. Yes, there were not any hobbits in the Prancying Pony, but Butterbur does give somewhat of a hint that hobbits may be around. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Good evening little Masters. If your seeking acomidations, we have some nice, cozy hobbit-sized rooms availible. Mr...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

09-17-2002, 04:16 PM	#1
Bradley Roy Guest Posts: n/a	The portrayal of Bree I would like to begin by saying that I love the movie and don't really mind the differences from the book. One thing I did NOT like however was the way they did Bree and the Prancing Pony in particular. In the books the Prancing Pony seems to be a very nice place. Hob and Nob are great and there are Hobbits in the main room. People are friendly for the most part. In the movie the Inn is dark and gothic, quite unsettling. Does any one else think they portrayed it wrong?

09-17-2002, 04:23 PM	#2
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 2,983	I would have to agree. When I read the book, Bree seemed like a very friendly place. Apparently, PJ wanted the viewers to feel that since Bree was away from the Shire, the hobbits were no longer near that safe and comfortable place they have always known and loved. __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum Last edited by Brinniel; 02-05-2007 at 07:35 PM.

09-17-2002, 04:44 PM	#3
Bradley Roy Guest Posts: n/a	That would make sense. Still I wish it would have been the same, oh well, cant have everything.<BR>Thanks for posting

09-18-2002, 12:36 AM	#4
Donisile Of Mirkwood Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: UK Posts: 36	Yeah, i thought the exact same thing, if they had included the song,when Frodo puts the ring on everyone was very suspicous and hostile,y couldn't they have done that? __________________ Let it not be said and said unto your shame that there was beauty here before you came.

09-18-2002, 01:18 AM	#5
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	Hmm i think PJ made Bree like that intentionally...I think that it was made to seem hostile in order to ellucidate how insecure the hobbits were at that moment...That was until Strider came into the picture ...But otherwise it was weird... __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

09-18-2002, 01:28 AM	#6
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	OK, I'll agree that P.J.'s version was a little over the top, but you have to remember that film is a <I>visual</I> medium. It's a little hard to portray what a character is thinking without using a lot of boring "voice-over" exposition.<P>So you have to show it. And I think what Jackson was trying to show is what Bree would look like to a bunch of tired, hungry, frightened Halflings who had never been out of the Shire.<P>Sometimes I think Tolkien kind of glosses over or tones down the Hobbit's reactions to the rest of Middle-earth. I mean, just think: you've spent your entire life in a world where everything and everybody is sized just right for you, and suddenly you are thrust into another world, where everyone is twice your height, and you have to cope with everything around you being geared to <I>those</I> people. Stairs and chairs alone would be a pain in the butt to deal with. <P>I can't help but think that sometimes the Hobbits must have got tired of being surrounded by giant freaks with over-active pineal glands.

09-18-2002, 08:12 AM	#7
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,977	I would agree with <B>Birdie</B> that some of PJ's work at the Pony is over the top--to me, it is degree of physical intimidation Strider shows Frodo. (Hmm. Was it this scene that made the split between PJ and the original actor chosen for Strider/Aragorn?) <P>It is true that there is much in Bree that sounds pleasant. We are told that here, and here alone, hobbits and men have carved a peaceable coexistence. Butterbur has a bluff good heartiness. But he's rough around the edges.<P>Also clear is the fact that Bree is a liminal place, a place on the border, a crossroads, a place where people and things and cultures mix, a place of transition over borders and boundaries. "As strange as news from Bree" is one of the local sayings in Eastfarthing. <P>There are also lots of hints that times in The Shire and Bree are turning bad and people recognize this change for the worse--or the unknown and are thus taking more precaution. There are Southerners in town and in the Pony itself, chatting up Bill Ferny.<P>So, it seems to me that the chapter, "At the Prancing Pony" is one of the places where easy distinctions between good and bad are hard to make. The Pony isn't cosy although it is superficially hospitable. This is also true of the Old Forest and omitting from the film the lessons learnt there put greater onus on bringing out this aspect at The Pony. There is no sudden line between good and bad, safety and danger, but a journey where evil becomes more and more concrete.<P><BR>Respectfully,<BR>Bethberry<p>[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ] __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

12-09-2002, 11:44 AM	#8
Snowdog Emperor of the South Pole Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Western Shore of Lake Evendim Posts: 606	I actually liked the way Bree and the Prancing Pony was portrayed, and the fact it was raining added something to it along with Peter Jackson munching a carrot.<P>The Pony was very much a mixed establishment, with Sarumann's agents starting to nose about and such. It was indeed a place of general friendlyness by Barliman, yet questionable folk visited as well as the fair.

12-10-2002, 07:34 AM	#9
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Jackson, also didn't do himslef any favours by averting any possible reacist overtones, whihc could come in the latter movies. The majority of the Breelanders are dark skinned, and so are a lot of Hobbits in the shire, yet P.J didn't pick up on it. I wouldn't want anyone acussing Tolkien of being racist, when he wasn't. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

12-10-2002, 11:18 AM	#10
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,977	One of the embarassments, <B>Snowdog</B>, of having old threads brought up, is finding typos one missed the first time round. : /<P>Is that rain Jackson's nod to Goldberry's washing day, since he omitted the House of Bombadil? It's a darker vision of seasonal change than what Tolkien gives us, though.<P>Good to see you here, <B>Snowdog</B>, even with a new sig. <P>Bethberry __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

12-10-2002, 12:29 PM	#11
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Jackson, also didn't do himslef any favours by averting any possible reacist overtones, whihc could come in the latter movies. The majority of the Breelanders are dark skinned, and so are a lot of Hobbits in the shire, yet P.J didn't pick up on it. I wouldn't want anyone acussing Tolkien of being racist, when he wasn't. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Eh, I don't understand. I thought the only dark skinned people in the books were the Druadan, Haradrim and Easterlings. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

12-10-2002, 04:40 PM	#12
-Imrahil- Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dol Amroth, upon the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 259	I totally agree. Bree is supposed to be cheery, with hobbits and men being friends ect. In the movie the Prancing Pony looks unfriendly, univiting, and dark which just isn't the way it was described in the books. I did like Butterber however. __________________ My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!

12-12-2002, 07:24 AM	#13
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	What? The easterlings wern't black, we don't kniow exactly what colour skin they are. The Dunlendings were black, and the men of Bree were descendants of them. Some of the house of Beor and the House of Bor were black, and they were good. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

12-12-2002, 07:26 AM	#14
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Oh and the most numerous group of Hobbbits, I think it was the Harfoots were said to have nut-brown skin. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

12-12-2002, 12:27 PM	#15
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Bree was a fairly nice place in the books, but you also have to remember that these are hobbits. Sam had misgivings about it when he first saw that the Prancing pony was 2 stories high, but it turned out to be O.K. in the end. There were some suspicious men there, Bill Ferny for one. <P>In the movie they more just omitted the cheery part rather than getting the whole thing wrong. They did a great job at showing how big of a world it was for these 4 little hobbits. In the book this is also showed in the old forest, but in the movie they don't show that part so they have to make up for it in other places. The story just isn't the same if the hobbits were always these brave warriers. One of the themes in LOTR I think is that little people can do big things. You have to show that the people are little before you can have them do big things. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

12-14-2002, 10:56 AM	#16
TealDude3 Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Bebop Posts: 138	I think you guys missed something. Yes, there were not any hobbits in the Prancying Pony, but Butterbur does give somewhat of a hint that hobbits may be around.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Good evening little Masters. If your seeking acomidations, we have some nice, cozy hobbit-sized rooms availible. Mr...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> __________________ I'm so hungry, I could eat at Arby's.