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03-08-2012, 06:35 PM | #1 | ||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
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A Hobbit of Oats
Just a curious little thing I stumbled on to share with you.
I was looking at the British Newspaper Archive and in some of the old papers from Wales and Cheshire there are such curious lines as: Quote:
The article gives the following explanation and etymology: Quote:
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03-08-2012, 06:48 PM | #2 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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Good find, Lal! That may very possibly be the root of hobbits.
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03-08-2012, 07:51 PM | #3 | |
Cryptic Aura
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Quote:
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03-08-2012, 08:22 PM | #4 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
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So a "hobbit" refers to weights and measures, eh? Maybe that's why a group of Hobbits is called a "gross".
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03-08-2012, 10:10 PM | #5 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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Quote:
That is indeed an interesting find. Certainly not something I've ever heard before. You'd think T. would have said so though, if that origin had been a factor.
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03-09-2012, 01:37 AM | #6 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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Brilliant, I say!
But I think Inzil has a good point here - would Tolkien not mention the origin of the word somewhere if it had been the case? Then again, it sounds veery unlikely that it would be completely unrelated (especially given his knowledge). Unconscious influence would therefore seem the most logical (like that he had heard the word somewhere, forgot about it and later simply used it, thinking it was "his") - unless the Prof wanted this to be his own private secret, hidden from his readers and others? For that matter, this all makes the sentence "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit" much more dadaistic by origin than it would seem
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03-09-2012, 03:30 AM | #7 | |
Cryptic Aura
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Posts: 6,169
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Quote:
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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03-09-2012, 06:40 AM | #8 |
A Mere Boggart
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Tolkien did of course try to explain the etymology of the word hobbit within the Middle-earth context as being hol-bytla or 'hole builder'. But there's always been something of the real world about the word.
The use of the word hobbit or anything similar prior to Tolkien was scanty. And I'd not heard this new use before at all! There's the more well known possibility of it being linked to folklore terms such as hobgoblin/hobby oss/hobbledyhoy. And the word hobbit does occur in the Denham Tracts, which is a mid Victorian (and mad and rambling) collection of folklore, stories, lists, proverbs, etc. Again this is in connection with a British creature of folklore. It's likely that Tolkien did somehow read the word used in both ways and store it in the back of his mind to be brought out again subsconsciously on the day he was bored while marking exam papers and wrote that first line of The Hobbit down. He was later to be credited with creating the word - did he do that or just give it a new meaning? I find it satisfying that a hobbit is also a big measure of oats or barley
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03-09-2012, 07:17 AM | #9 |
Princess of Skwerlz
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I heard Shippey lecture on the origin of "hobbit" and other names as they originated in folklore - Lal is on the same track in her above post. However, the weight/measure source idea is fascinating! And who's to say it wasn't part of the "leafmould" of Tolkien's imagination...
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