*TTT - Theoden (Bernard Hill)* - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Estelyn Telcontar · 12-17-2002, 10:25 AM

What's your impression of Theoden King and the actor who portrays him?[ December 25, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

Diamond18 · 12-19-2002, 12:01 AM

I haven't really decided, but I'm bumping this thread up to get some other opinions.

-Imrahil- · 12-19-2002, 12:11 AM

I liked him soemwhere between Faramir and Sam. He was okay, definately not what he could have been. I did not like the way he wanted to hide.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-19-2002, 05:27 AM

I liked him. I know a lot of people dislike the 'exorcist' scene but I thought it was cool. He also had some awesome lines! The whole "Where is the horse and the rider" bit is immense!But why did he have to steal Eomer's "Now for wrath, now for ruin, and a red (well, here its dawn, not nightfall)? I love that line at the Pellenor, I put it up on my bedroom wall.But a very minor quibble, that's all.

Lhunbelethiel · 12-20-2002, 03:54 PM

Theoden King stood out to me for some reason. I thought he was interesting in the book, but I thought he was fabulous in the movie. I caught a commercial the day before where it showed him all old and white and scary and I was freaked out. (I hadn't a clue that it was Theoden either! I was so confused) When it showed him in Meduseld with Grima (Go Brad!) crouching at his side, I was thinking "Oh my god, Peter Jackson completely transferred on to screen what I pictured in my head!" (same for the Forbidden Pool scene, btw!!) Bernard Hill did a great job of portraying the sadness and lack of spirit as the degenerate Theoden and did an even better job of showing him as Theoden KING after Gandalf's amazing, awesome, incredible transformation of him. I want to see the movie again for a million reasons, but a BIG part of it is to hear the whole, "Where is the horse and rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountain..." line. I absolutely got chills when he said that. Wow.

Túroch · 12-20-2002, 04:35 PM

I really liked Bernard Hill as Theoden. He really looked like waht I pictured him as. However, their is one big problem. Theoden is not nearly as much of a DESPAIRING WIMP ans they portrayed him in the movie. He didn't just sit back troughout the battle he led his troops (howver in the movie they made it look as though Rohan had no troops), he also was the one who decided on the last charge against the orcs. He was the if i'm going to go down i'm going to go down fighting. PJ tu8rned to Rohiirim from great fighters and cool cavalry into a nation of huddled unwashed families and old men who is run by a leader who spends most of his time despairing on what will happen to his poor "helpless" people. Sheesh.

Nenya · 12-21-2002, 09:40 AM

There's that word again. Wimp. And I still don't agree about it. I must say that I haven't got a clear memory of how Theoden was in the book, for he was never a chracter I focused on. So I can't say much about the way he has been transformed to a movie character. What I can say, is that I truly enjoyed him in TTT. He's chracter was the one who made me think the most: about war, hopelesness, fear, leadership. And he didn't seem like a wimp (grr) to me, more like a man who knows his responsibility of his people.[ December 21, 2002: Message edited by: Nenya ]

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-21-2002, 05:13 PM

I disagree with you calling him a wimp in the movie, but bear in mind! in the Return of the King, Theoden King is going to have a peach of a death! Mark my words, the world will cry "Hero!"

12-22-2002, 09:33 PM

I agree partly with Túroch, he is a bit wimpier than the Theoden I remember of old, crying for his sword the minute Gandalf frees him from the seductive words of Grima. In the movie, Strider has to urge him to find his sword....though I think PJ tries to emphasize the "Great Man" Aragorn..

The Silver-shod Muse · 12-24-2002, 01:12 AM

I really did not like Bernard Hill as Theoden. I'd imagined him older, more powerful and compelling, and much more given to unity. Hill was just a cranky old man that was irritated and intimidated by Aragorn's advice. He showed no sign of nobility, and no sign of having rallied his people around him for the coming storm of Mordor. I was thoroughly disappointed. Hopefully he'll redeem himself for the Pellenor.

Liriodendron · 12-24-2002, 08:19 AM

I really liked Theoden in the movie. Very much! I particularly liked the way he looked! I like dignified, masculine, older men! Shall I say it... Theoden King was HOT! Ha ha ha! I liked the "exorcism" It was cool. It really wasn't a big deal, just a very quick way to show he had been under Saruman's spell. He could have been more forceful and battle oriented, but they seemed to be playing up the human element of protecting the non-warrior peoples of Rohan, so This "Theoden King" was preoccupied with his people's safety. Fair enough! I have a pix of Aragorn and Theoden King striding into battle on my desk. Mmmmmm, love older men!

the mortal elf · 12-24-2002, 08:47 AM

I actually do agree that he was a bit of a wimp. Compared to the books, anyway. He was one of my favorite characters in the books because he was so noble and brave, etc. This made him look like he wanted to hide. And the whole, "Is this it? Is this the best you can give me Saruman?" bit drove me insane. He would never be that blindly arrogant, would he? Oh well. It wasn't really the actor's fault. Maybe the fact that Rohan was a nation that looked like it was made up of about 500 peasants had something to do with his weakness. I'm looking forward to his death scene, though. Maybe he can redeem himself.

Nenya · 12-24-2002, 06:02 PM

I thought I was the only one thinking Rohan looked small...I really have to see the movie again for a better opinion, but: Theoden was no wimp. Maybe I'm just a girl, but I for one would like to have a king who sees war as the absolutely last option. That's how it should be. You have to make sure there is nothing else you can do before marching into a battle. And even when doing that, a good leader doesn't feel himself proud and honorable. Much more sad. He is, afterall, probably leading thousands of men to their deaths. And to me, that doesn't make a man any less noble. On the contrary.

Garen LiLorian · 12-25-2002, 10:40 AM

The good; "Where is the horse and the rider" I've been waiting for two movies to hear some of Tolkien's poetry, and finally I get it. Thank you. Now I only wish they had actually said the poem, instead of changing it around to mean something else. Oh well. He had moments (albeit less than I would have liked) of nobility, of a tragic figure, but one who would do what was required of him. Theoden King The bad; He was pretty, well, wimpy is perhaps a bit strong. He was more cautious than I would have liked. His absolute refusal to go to war, even when war was inevitable, pushed him over the edge from a tragic figure to a coward, IMO. The ugly; Stealing Eomer's lines. His ala Monty Python moment. "Defend the Gate!" *poke* "Ouch! Run away! Run away!" His utter inconsistancy of character. (being Wormtongue's puppet to shouting at Aragorn for trying to counsel him, to letting Aragorn command the defense)All of these negative things, however, are mostly the result of the screenplay which Bernhard Hill had to work with. I thought his acting was excellent. I thought that Tolkien stated quite specifically that his hair was white. Maybe I'm just confused because his horse's name is Snowmane.

The Silver-shod Muse · 12-25-2002, 01:09 PM

I was pretty sure he had white hair and a white beard too. Maybe PJ thought the audience would confuse all the old men, so he distinguished him slightly.Nenya: of course war should be the last option, but once engaged, he shouldn't have held back. I wanted to see some bravery, some self-sacrifice. He knew war was inevitable since Eomer brought the orc helm. It was how he fought that was disappointing.

Arwen Imladris · 01-01-2003, 01:09 PM

I loved the way that he changed after he was revived. However, I did not think that the way they made him seem demon possed was so great, that is not the way that I pictured it. Oh well. Bernard Hill is a great actor anyway!

12-17-2002, 10:25 AM	#1
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,499	*TTT - Theoden (Bernard Hill)* What's your impression of Theoden King and the actor who portrays him?<p>[ December 25, 2002: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ] __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

12-19-2002, 12:01 AM	#2
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	I haven't really decided, but I'm bumping this thread up to get some other opinions. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

12-19-2002, 12:11 AM	#3
-Imrahil- Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dol Amroth, upon the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 259	I liked him soemwhere between Faramir and Sam. He was okay, definately not what he could have been. I did not like the way he wanted to hide. __________________ My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!

12-19-2002, 05:27 AM	#4
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I liked him. I know a lot of people dislike the 'exorcist' scene but I thought it was cool. He also had some awesome lines! The whole "Where is the horse and the rider" bit is immense!<P>But why did he have to steal Eomer's "Now for wrath, now for ruin, and a red (well, here its dawn, not nightfall)? I love that line at the Pellenor, I put it up on my bedroom wall.<P>But a very minor quibble, that's all. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-20-2002, 03:54 PM	#5
Lhunbelethiel Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Bay Area (aka Bay of Belfalas) Posts: 103	Theoden King stood out to me for some reason. I thought he was interesting in the book, but I thought he was fabulous in the movie. I caught a commercial the day before where it showed him all old and white and scary and I was freaked out. (I hadn't a clue that it was Theoden either! I was so confused) When it showed him in Meduseld with Grima (Go Brad!) crouching at his side, I was thinking "Oh my god, Peter Jackson completely transferred on to screen what I pictured in my head!" (same for the Forbidden Pool scene, btw!!) Bernard Hill did a great job of portraying the sadness and lack of spirit as the degenerate Theoden and did an even better job of showing him as Theoden KING after Gandalf's amazing, awesome, incredible transformation of him. I want to see the movie again for a million reasons, but a BIG part of it is to hear the whole, "Where is the horse and rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountain..." line. I absolutely got chills when he said that. Wow. __________________ ~~All that is gold does not glitter, not all who wander are lost, all that is old does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost...~~

12-20-2002, 04:35 PM	#6
Túroch Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Oklahoma State University Posts: 102	I really liked Bernard Hill as Theoden. He really looked like waht I pictured him as. However, their is one big problem. Theoden is not nearly as much of a DESPAIRING WIMP ans they portrayed him in the movie. He didn't just sit back troughout the battle he led his troops (howver in the movie they made it look as though Rohan had no troops), he also was the one who decided on the last charge against the orcs. He was the if i'm going to go down i'm going to go down fighting. PJ tu8rned to Rohiirim from great fighters and cool cavalry into a nation of huddled unwashed families and old men who is run by a leader who spends most of his time despairing on what will happen to his poor "helpless" people. Sheesh. __________________ For the valour of the Edain the Elves shall ever remember as the ages lengthen, marvelling that they gave life so freely of which thay had on earth so little. But it is not for thy valour only that I send thee, but to bring into the world a hope beyond thy sight, and a light that shall pierce the darkness." Ulmo - Lord of waters

12-21-2002, 09:40 AM	#7
Nenya Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the hand of Lady Galadriel Posts: 127	There's that word again. Wimp. And I still don't agree about it.<BR>I must say that I haven't got a clear memory of how Theoden was in the book, for he was never a chracter I focused on. So I can't say much about the way he has been transformed to a movie character. What I <I>can</I> say, is that I truly enjoyed him in TTT. He's chracter was the one who made me think the most: about war, hopelesness, fear, leadership. And he didn't seem like a wimp (grr) to me, more like a man who knows his responsibility of his people.<p>[ December 21, 2002: Message edited by: Nenya ]

12-21-2002, 05:13 PM	#8
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I disagree with you calling him a wimp in the movie, but bear in mind! in the Return of the King, Theoden King is going to have a peach of a death! Mark my words, the world will cry "Hero!" __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-22-2002, 09:33 PM	#9
Mordhol Guest Posts: n/a	I agree partly with Túroch, he is a bit wimpier than the Theoden I remember of old, crying for his sword the minute Gandalf frees him from the seductive words of Grima. In the movie, Strider has to urge him to find his sword....though I think PJ tries to emphasize the "Great Man" Aragorn..

12-24-2002, 01:12 AM	#10
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	I really did not like Bernard Hill as Theoden. I'd imagined him older, more powerful and compelling, and much more given to unity. Hill was just a cranky old man that was irritated and intimidated by Aragorn's advice. He showed no sign of nobility, and no sign of having rallied his people around him for the coming storm of Mordor. I was thoroughly disappointed. Hopefully he'll redeem himself for the Pellenor. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

12-24-2002, 08:19 AM	#11
Liriodendron Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 527	I really liked Theoden in the movie. Very much! I particularly liked the way he looked! I like dignified, masculine, older men! Shall I say it... Theoden King was HOT! Ha ha ha! I liked the "exorcism" It was cool. It really wasn't a big deal, just a very quick way to show he had been under Saruman's spell. He could have been more forceful and battle oriented, but they seemed to be playing up the human element of protecting the non-warrior peoples of Rohan, so This "Theoden King" was preoccupied with his people's safety. Fair enough! I have a pix of Aragorn and Theoden King striding into battle on my desk. Mmmmmm, love older men! __________________ http://www.lizmargason.com

12-24-2002, 08:47 AM	#12
the mortal elf Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Posts: 201	I actually do agree that he was a bit of a wimp. Compared to the books, anyway. He was one of my favorite characters in the books because he was so noble and brave, etc. This made him look like he wanted to hide. And the whole, "Is this it? Is this the best you can give me Saruman?" bit drove me insane. He would never be that blindly arrogant, would he? Oh well. It wasn't really the actor's fault. Maybe the fact that Rohan was a nation that looked like it was made up of about 500 peasants had something to do with his weakness. I'm looking forward to his death scene, though. Maybe he can redeem himself. __________________ My imaginary friend says you have problems.

12-24-2002, 06:02 PM	#13
Nenya Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the hand of Lady Galadriel Posts: 127	I thought I was the only one thinking Rohan looked small...<P>I really have to see the movie again for a better opinion, but: Theoden was no wimp. Maybe I'm just a girl, but I for one would like to have a king who sees war as the absolutely last option. That's how it should be. You have to make sure there is <I>nothing</I> else you can do before marching into a battle. And even when doing that, a good leader doesn't feel himself proud and honorable. Much more sad. He is, afterall, probably leading thousands of men to their deaths. <BR>And to me, that doesn't make a man any less noble. On the contrary.

12-25-2002, 10:40 AM	#14
Garen LiLorian Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The frigid white wilderness of the Midwest Posts: 235	The good;<BR>"Where is the horse and the rider" I've been waiting for two movies to hear some of Tolkien's poetry, and finally I get it. Thank you. Now I only wish they had actually said the poem, instead of changing it around to mean something else. Oh well. <BR>He had moments (albeit less than I would have liked) of nobility, of a tragic figure, but one who would do what was required of him. Theoden <I>King</I><BR>The bad;<BR>He was pretty, well, wimpy is perhaps a bit strong. He was more cautious than I would have liked. His absolute refusal to go to war, even when war was inevitable, pushed him over the edge from a tragic figure to a coward, IMO.<BR>The ugly;<BR>Stealing Eomer's lines. His ala Monty Python moment. "Defend the Gate!" poke "Ouch! Run away! Run away!" His utter inconsistancy of character. (being Wormtongue's puppet to shouting at Aragorn for trying to counsel him, to letting Aragorn command the defense)<P>All of these negative things, however, are mostly the result of the screenplay which Bernhard Hill had to work with. I thought his acting was excellent. <P>I thought that Tolkien stated quite specifically that his hair <I>was</I> white. Maybe I'm just confused because his horse's name is Snowmane. __________________ This is my quest, to follow that star; no matter how hopeless, no matter how far. To fight for the right, without question or pause. To be willing to march into Hell for a Heavenly cause! -Man of La Mancha

12-25-2002, 01:09 PM	#15
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	I was pretty sure he had white hair and a white beard too. Maybe PJ thought the audience would confuse all the old men, so he distinguished him slightly.<P>Nenya: of course war should be the last option, but once engaged, he shouldn't have held back. I wanted to see some bravery, some self-sacrifice. He knew war was inevitable since Eomer brought the orc helm. It was how he fought that was disappointing. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

01-01-2003, 01:09 PM	#16
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	I loved the way that he changed after he was revived. However, I did not think that the way they made him seem demon possed was so great, that is not the way that I pictured it. Oh well. Bernard Hill is a great actor anyway! __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."