The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > Novices and Newcomers
User Name
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-15-2011, 05:37 PM   #1
Blossom of Dwimordene
Galadriel55's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 9,014
Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Arda, Ea, and the Void

For a while I was a bit confused what exactly do the terms above reffer to.

If Arda is everything that was created from the Flame Imperishable (ie everything within the Ekkaya), the Void would then be everything else. If Ea is literally everything, then it would contain both Arda and the Void. However, Ea is what was created from the Flame Imperishable, which means that the Void is not part of it. Then what is Arda?

I would really appreciate it if someone could untangle this knot for me.

By the way, another interesting question:

[Melkor] had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame;... ~Ainulindale
Does this mean that there is distance in the Void? Wouldn't it make it not-a-Void, though?

My last question for now:

Far [Earendil] journeyed in that ship, even into the starless voids; but most often he was seen at morning or at evening, glimmering in sunrise of sunset, as he came to Valinor from voyages beyond the confines of the world.~The Voyage of Earendil and The War of Wrath
Firstly, where are the "confines of the world"? And secondly, how could Earendil travel into the Void? I thought it was forbidden... at least for ainur and elves, because they ought to stay in the world at least until Dagor Dagorath... and Earendil chose to be an Elf... Or is he just a special case, because it's the actual him entering the Void, and only for some period of time, and not his fea going to dwell there?
"Surely you don’t disbelieve the prophecies, because you had a hand in bringing them about yourself?" - Gandalf
She's Cobbling from beyond the DeadThread! That's next-level cobbling. ~hS, TIG CXV
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 08:18 PM   #2
Dead Serious
Formendacil's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers.
Posts: 3,115
Formendacil is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Formendacil is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Formendacil is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Formendacil is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via AIM to Formendacil Send a message via MSN to Formendacil
I haven't got my HoME handy... but going by memory, I think your problem, or confusion, comes from identifying Arda with "everything that was created from the Flame Imperishable." At least in his later works (cf. Morgoth's Ring), Tolkien associated the Kingdom of Arda not with all of creation, but with the Solar Syst em. Of course, this sort of throws out the cosmology of the Ambarkanta...

I hesitate to say much more than that without my books handy, but essence of the matter is that Tolkien himself changed his mind about the cosmological nature of Arda (and its place within or complete identification with creation), and different passages in the Silmarillion might hail from different stages of its development. This comes into play with your Eärendil question--not least because the texts on Eärendil are among the least developed in the Legendarium, despite their central importance.

The most important references are HoME IV which includes the Ambarkanta. and the Eärendil passages would probably make sense in the light of this text. The others are in HoME X Morgoth's Ring, which has a whole section about the major cosmological changes that Tolkien was intending to make.
I prefer history, true or feigned.
Formendacil is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.