Did Tom Bombadil remain in Middle-Earth after the Third Age?

[Knight of Gondor]

Does anyone know if Tom Bombadil remained in Middle-Earth after the third age? I always thought after reading the end of RotK that "Nuts, no one with great power remained, because Galadriel, Gandalf, and everybody up and left."

But then it came to me, didn't Tom remain?

[Guildo]

Well every one powerfull didnt leave- Cirdan, Aragorn, Gwaihir. i think old Tom stuck around, who or what ever he was he loved ME

[Kalimac]

Yay! A question which won't lead to bitter, unending arguments about what Tom actually WAS! (I hope). Go to the head of the class, Knight [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

Frankly it's hard to see Tom wanting to go, or even remembering to if he were told - can imagine him coming back after a three-day tramp through his little domain to find a note from Goldberry - "Tom, sorry, couldn't wait any longer. Boat leaving in 2 hours. Leftovers for dinner in the cool hollow underneath the waterfall. Recipe book next to canister of Kingsfoil. See you next life, Love, G."

Tom, as Gandalf says, is powerful is his own domain but never leaves it. The woods and the barrow-downs are his little kingdom (in a highly non-dictatorial way) and they seem to be pretty much the reason he exists - it's impossible to imagine Tom anywhere else (what would he DO in Rivendell, anyway? Not to mention the Undying Lands?). I've always had this vague and highly non-canonical idea that if Tom attempted to step outside the border of his country "Tom's country ends here, he can go no further" - he would vanish. Maybe that's just an extension of the feeling in the books that Tom simply can't contemplate going outside of his border, and functionally that's the same as not being able to do it.

So that's my $0.02. Who knows, maybe Tom is still wandering around out there somewhere (it's hard to see the Old Forest falling victim to development, somehow. It's probably located on unsaleable land, due to the perennial crankiness of Old Man Willow).

[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: Kalimac ]

[burrahobbit]

No way to tell. Where else would he go?

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

No, I'm fairly sure he stayed. Middle-Earth was his domain; he was in fact very down to earth.

Kalimac, from your post it seems that your idea of Bombadil is of some absent-minded, eccentric, rather comedic figure. Actually, this is far from the truth. Bombadil's wisdom was incredible; remember the stories he told to the Hobbits, and the consideration of inviting him to the Council of Elrong? If he appears eccentric and over-light-hearted, it is because he percieves things very clearly.

Not everyone of power left, by any means. The High Elves had to go, because their time was over and Middle-Earth had passed into the hands of Men. The Istari (well Gandalf anyway; anyone know what happened to Radagast?) had to go, because their job in ME was over. Sauron was accounted for. But other than them, while most of the 'powerful ones' were them, everyone stayed.

[Pallando B.C]

All of these points could have answers?

I was just thinking our saviour on all the un-answered questions beyond the Third Age could be answered by non-other than Christopher Tolkien.

Now, you may think Chris may not have the knowledge or whatever to answer these question, or you may think that this is a stupid idea..... I am open to all responses.

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Right, let's get him in here then.

He might have an idea, but I don't really think we need him. It is certain that he stayed. He was not an ethereal or divine being; he was Arda, and belonged in and through Middle-Earth.

[Arwen Imladris]

A question which won't lead to bitter, unending arguments about what Tom actually WAS! (I hope).

He was not an ethereal or divine being; he was Arda, and belonged in and through Middle-Earth.

Ahhhhhhhh! Nooooooooooo! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

*Arwen Imldaris flees in terror of the ever ending Tom debate*

[tangerine]

Speaking of people who stayed behind, Cirdan probably did, right? If only to wait for the slowpokes to get the next boat. He was one of the High Elves, I think. I don't know. Maybe he was just part of the White Council.

[Legolas]

About Cirdan...

From Lord of the Rings:

'...At the Grey Havens dwelt Círdan the Shipwright, and some say he dwells there still, until the Last Ship sets sail into the West. In the days of the Kings most of the High Elves that still lingered in Middle-earth dwelt with Círdan or in the seaward lands of Lindon. If any now remain they are few.’

From The Silmarillion:

At the first that Ring had been entrusted to Círdan, Lord of the Havens; but he had surrendered it to Mithrandir, for he knew whence he came and whither at last he would return.
‘Take now this Ring,’ he [Cirdan] said; 'for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores, guarding the Havens until the last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.’

He went west with the last ship.

[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]

[Kalimac]

Gwaihir - Actually I know that Tom was more than just a comic figure; the parts where he's telling them the stories give him great gravity, and the fact that he can both wear the Ring without disappearing and be considered as an invitee to the Council of Elrond tells you (even if nothing else does) that he can be a force to be reckoned with if he chooses. Rescuing them from the Barrow-Wight and the Willow (who were certainly not figures of fun) was a great demonstration of power.

What I was doing was poking fun at Tom's persona of the jolly, slightly eccentric woodsman. That's all. Joke? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] .

And I still don't think he went West. I can't see him wanting to leave his land. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Neferchoirwen]

Tom doesn't seem the the type to leave his "kingdom" as Kalimac would call it:He loves so much, I bet.

Also, when Gandalf was mentioning having a "little chat" with Tom, Gandalf sounded pretty much in a hurry, as if he didn't have much time to tell Tom about all that happened in ME.

Well, for one thing, Tom would have been seen among those marching to the ships, right?

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Arwen, I can't believe that. The Tom debate is annoying at first I think, but now it must be one of my favourites. Terribly interesting.

[Luinadar]

So on a slight Tom enigma tangent here...The Old forest used to a hellof alot bigger(?), and everyone seems to be agreed that Tom has direct power when the need arises. So why did he allow men (and whatever else) to de-forest the whole of the Downs and beyond? And in the case of the Downs, why allow the Wights to settle there in his realm at all? Did Tom roam during those times? Questions within questions...