An Unlikely Theory: Blue Wizards as Tom and Golberry - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sardy · 04-06-2006, 02:19 PM

While there's certainly nothing in Tolkien's work to support this theory, it's an entertaining one, I think. What if the Blue Wizards never were lost in the East, as Tolkien surmised (he never gave a definite answer on their fates, only guessed that they might've gone east and started magic cults)...

What if, instead, they "went native" (surely Radagast sets a precedent for the potential for Istari to fall in love with the wild and eschew the Free Peoples).

What if Tom Bambadil and Goldberry are indeed Alatar and Pallando gone native to the point of possibly having "forgotten" their Istari identities (which were only nom de plumes taken on when entering Middle-earth, to begin with...)

narfforc · 04-06-2006, 05:46 PM

Tom was there from the very beginning, he came to Middle-earth before all other things, he was The First. The Istari appeared in Middle-Earth around the year 1000 of The Third Age.

Elu Ancalime · 04-06-2006, 07:34 PM

Well, if your speaking seriously, um, no, because evidence does not go well with that idea. However, you could write a short fiction essay about that (Like Tom is Saurons finger, TOm is the Witch King, for example some good ones)

EDIT FOR TANGENT: Is there a thread where Downers could post fiction ideas about Tom Bombadil? And not just two liners, but a few paragraphs? I dont think there are, but that would be cool....

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CHANG'AN FORD MAZDA ENGINE HISTORY

deal_with_it · 04-06-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sardy

While there's certainly nothing in Tolkien's work to support this theory, it's an entertaining one, I think. What if the Blue Wizards never were lost in the East, as Tolkien surmised (he never gave a definite answer on their fates, only guessed that they might've gone east and started magic cults)...

What if, instead, they "went native" (surely Radagast sets a precedent for the potential for Istari to fall in love with the wild and eschew the Free Peoples).

What if Tom Bambadil and Goldberry are indeed Alatar and Pallando gone native to the point of possibly having "forgotten" their Istari identities (which were only nom de plumes taken on when entering Middle-earth, to begin with...)

Well Goldberry actually had a mother, the River Woman,that Tolkien mentions. Unless the Blues Brothers brought Mom along, I doubt its possible

Legolas · 04-06-2006, 10:23 PM

Saruman and the Blue Wizards ventured into the east, and Alatar and Pallando never returned. Gandalf's remarks about Bombadil imply a long-standing relationship and knowledge of Tom.

Gandalf refuses possession of the Ring in order to avoid its corruptive power; Saruman is obsessed with it, and tries to make his own. These two, whom I presume to be 'upper scale' Maiar, are affected by the Ring, so one would expect Alatar and Pallando to be affected as well. Tom is not affected by it.

If you're interested, Tolkien did offer some speculation about the fate of the Blue Wizards. I've compiled those writings here in our Middle-earth FAQ.

Thalion · 04-07-2006, 03:50 PM

If Tom and Goldberry were the blue wizards, why didn't Galdalf say this? He certinaly would recognize and know someone of his own order!

..plus they would have come to the White Council as other members of the Istari...

04-06-2006, 02:19 PM	#1
Sardy Wight Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 111	An Unlikely Theory: Blue Wizards as Tom and Golberry While there's certainly nothing in Tolkien's work to support this theory, it's an entertaining one, I think. What if the Blue Wizards never were lost in the East, as Tolkien surmised (he never gave a definite answer on their fates, only guessed that they might've gone east and started magic cults)... What if, instead, they "went native" (surely Radagast sets a precedent for the potential for Istari to fall in love with the wild and eschew the Free Peoples). What if Tom Bambadil and Goldberry are indeed Alatar and Pallando gone native to the point of possibly having "forgotten" their Istari identities (which were only nom de plumes taken on when entering Middle-earth, to begin with...) __________________ www.scottchristiancarr.com They passed slowly, and the hobbits could see the starlight glimmering on their hair and in their eyes. Last edited by Sardy; 04-06-2006 at 03:02 PM.

04-06-2006, 05:46 PM	#2
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	Whoa slow down there........ Tom was there from the very beginning, he came to Middle-earth before all other things, he was The First. The Istari appeared in Middle-Earth around the year 1000 of The Third Age. __________________ [B]THE LORD OF THE GRINS:THE ONE PARODY....A PARODY BETTER THAN THE RINGS OF POWER.

04-06-2006, 07:34 PM	#3
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	Well, if your speaking seriously, um, no, because evidence does not go well with that idea. However, you could write a short fiction essay about that (Like Tom is Saurons finger, TOm is the Witch King, for example some good ones) EDIT FOR TANGENT: Is there a thread where Downers could post fiction ideas about Tom Bombadil? And not just two liners, but a few paragraphs? I dont think there are, but that would be cool.... ________ CHANG'AN FORD MAZDA ENGINE HISTORY Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:38 PM.

04-06-2006, 10:23 PM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Saruman and the Blue Wizards ventured into the east, and Alatar and Pallando never returned. Gandalf's remarks about Bombadil imply a long-standing relationship and knowledge of Tom. Gandalf refuses possession of the Ring in order to avoid its corruptive power; Saruman is obsessed with it, and tries to make his own. These two, whom I presume to be 'upper scale' Maiar, are affected by the Ring, so one would expect Alatar and Pallando to be affected as well. Tom is not affected by it. If you're interested, Tolkien did offer some speculation about the fate of the Blue Wizards. I've compiled those writings here in our Middle-earth FAQ. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. Last edited by Legolas; 04-07-2006 at 03:01 PM.

04-07-2006, 03:50 PM	#6
Thalion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tol Morwen Posts: 82	If Tom and Goldberry were the blue wizards, why didn't Galdalf say this? He certinaly would recognize and know someone of his own order! ..plus they would have come to the White Council as other members of the Istari... __________________ "But a new day is come. Here I will stay at peace, and renounce name and kin; and so I will put my shadow behind me, or at the least not lay it upon those that I love."