Full-length LotR Parody Movies

[Huinesoron]

I've been adding your translations to the Consolidated Version, by the way; let me know if you'd rather I didn't and I'll remove them.

I've also piece together the second half of Luthien's meeting with Beren. This was another one that ran into short line issues, but from the other direction - "What is" has one less syllable than the Russian equivalent! I think I got it sorted.

The Meeting of Luthien and Beren, ctd

LUTHIEN:
What is "agony"?

BEREN:
Pain is the enemy death releases us from

LUTHIEN:
What are "battle" and "war"?

BEREN:
A delight to the poets but abhorrent to ev'ryone

LUTHIEN:
What are "hate" and "emnity"?

BEREN:
They're the bread of war, its water and living breath

LUTHIEN:
And then what is "love"?

BEREN:
Love is the bliss that stands between hate and death!

LUTHIEN:
Don't look me in the eye, I'm shaking with fear
At being alone with you
Hatred and death look out of your eyes
Enclosed in a single view
No-one has dared to see me this way
In all of the endless years

BEREN:
Until you drew me out with the light of your heart
I had known only dark and tears!

LUTHIEN:
Dear friend, you are moving far too quickly
I'm sure I've given you no cause
Fates apart, joining them is risky

BEREN:
Then you weren't waiting for me?

LUTHIEN:
I was!

But the sun shines not shine in midnight's kingdom
Rivers do not run into dry seas.
Our story is written to its ending
You weren't searching for me.

BEREN:
I was.

What is "loyalty"?

LUTHIEN:
The song that the nightingale sings in the starry night

BEREN:
What's "eternity", then?

LUTHIEN:
A house where there's room enough for you and I.

BEREN:
What is "immortal'ty"?

LUTHIEN:
The air of the forest
And the taste of ashberries bright

BEREN:
And then what is "love"?

LUTHIEN:
Love makes the weight of immortal living light!

I have absolutely no idea what an ashberry is, but I figured I'd let the Russians have that one. I'm somewhat annoyed by 'immortal'ty', but my only alternative was something like "Immortality next?", and I want to keep the 'what's in place.

hS

[Huinesoron]

I, um... I got bored.

Truth (Finrod's Last Song)

An arrow set in flight
Its feathers white and gleaming
Who lay in arrow's sight?
Who knew its rise and falling?
Whose fingers fair
Chose its course through the air
And sped it to its target?
What the archer's whispered prayer
When took he his aim there
And set his bowstring singing?

Truth, you soar high above despair, singing
Chase shadows out as an arrow piercing
In Land of shadows, on thy threshold are my feet
But death and fate together, aren't so strong as thee

Forsaking home and kin
Forsaking my own soul
I hear your whispered call
Across the mountains tall
Here, abandoned in the snow
A thrall to any foe
My path a mystery
I sought for only thee
To learn what holy fires
Are blazing in the eyes
Of Secondborn inheritors!

Ah! To read the flight of birds
Is in my gifted powers
But mysterious still
Is the secret heart of mortals.
There, blind death beats within
A war no-one can win
Unbeatable, unreasoning.
But, in one moment that blinds
Obey your heart and find
A blazing understanding!

A golden dust is shining in the heights
Sky-ships are burning in the sunset light
The curséd Silmarils are blazing far away
But there's a fire that shines brighter e'en than they!

Do not close up your gates - take me in
While I can see you, Truth - here within
Fulfilled my part at last, without knowing the price
I thank your mercy, Truth, in showing me the light!

The hardest line was that 'Whose fingers fair' right at the beginning; as far as I can tell, it needs to be four syllables and rhyme with the next line. A lot of rejected version there.

hS

[Galadriel55]

The Coming of Beren to Nargothrond - REVISED


BEREN:
Is this not the wonderous Nargothrond,
Refuge that to Men has been long forbidden?
Is this not the fair Finrod's golden throne
Upon which he governs his kingdom hidden?

ELVES:
You passed from under darkened dome,
You enter now the secret land.
BEREN:
Take me to Finrod's fabled home!
ELVES:
First tell us: are you foe or friend?
Are you foe or friend?
BEREN:
I must see Felagund, your King,
I must see Felagund, your King!

I beseech you, lend me your aid, my King!
To my father once you had made a promise
You gave him in battle a jeweled ring
To repay with friendship his faithful service!

I beseech you, lend me your aid, my King!
Barahir in battle once saved you, fighting!
After battle you gifted him your ring:
Token to you both of a promise binding!

FINROD:
This Man I recognize!
The son of that brave hero
Who saved me from demise,
To whom I owe my freedom!

BEREN:
Finrod Elvenking, you are just and fair,
But with bitter poison is filled your kinsman.
Love to me is greatest of jewels I bear,
But to him my love merely is a reason!

Pure love for his daughter commands my heart
He does not permit us to be together
For a Silmaril with her hand he'll part.
Such is his high price for his kingly honour!

FINROD:
What were you thinking, friend
Whose kin I owe my freedom?
What aid can I now lend
Son of the Younger Children?

BEREN:
I would fain in battle my love defend,
I would fain fulfill the will of another,
I'm prepared to fight to the bitter end
'Gainst the Lord of Fetters in northern tower!

I ask: give me men who would help me fight!
I will challenge Him who sits on the Dark Throne
In the barren wasteland, the heart of Night;
From his iron crown I will tear a star-stone!

FINROD:
One can't escape one's doom...
How could I have foreseen this?
This thought leads to a tomb
A Curse from slumber rises!...

BEREN:
Carefree is the life in your halls, my King!
Years of blissful joy you have counted many.
Take back now your gift, your now worthless ring!
It has proved to be of no use to any!

FINROD:
I hear naught but madness in what you said.
In this poisoned chalice is my doom brewing.
I esteem my honour above my head,
But your fey idea will be our ruin!

BEREN:
If you have loved until
Love was your breath and water
You'd bathe the Silmaril
In your heart's blood and sorrow

First things first - starting from the top.

-wonder-filled - given that you use 'fain' later, I think 'wondERous' wouldn't be inappropriate; it's slightly old fashioned but makes the point well. I also considered 'magical', but that shades a bit too much of Samwise.

I did not realize "wonderous" was an actual word. In fact, my computer highlights it in red and google corrects it to "wondrous". But language requires word inventions to accommodate changing meaning. Wonderous it is!

-Refuge that to mortals has been forbidden? - this is one of those scansion lines. There's a slight pause in the middle of 'mor-tals'; if I were writing it I'd have said something like 'Refuge that to Men has been long forbidden'. But I'm not; I'm just noting it because I noticed it.

Right, that's an example of the heavy-handedness. It technically checks out but it's heavy.

To my father once you have made a promise - I'm not sure that tense structure works. Technically it would be 'once you did make', but that's awful; 'once you had made' is probably better.

Yes, grammar. That thing that gets sacrificed first.

I think 'jewelled' works well; jewels are a bit of a thing in this story, so it fits, and in Version Two I'm pretty sure what he's holding is a huge prop gem.

Hmm. I'm still dubious about it, but I trust your judgement.

I think if the original text repeats the lines in these two verses, it's probably best to stick to that. I'd probably go with the versions from the first repeat.

Hmm. First line - possibly ("assistance" is not as Tolkienesque as "aid"). But third line I think is better off different. I think the second stanza doesn't flow as well with the "jeweled" line.

'Elvenking' is nice... but 'Felagund' scans exactly as well, so I'm not sure why you didn't use it.

I've only thought of using "Felagund" as I was going to bed last night. And then I thought it sounds even heavier. On the flip side, "Elvenking" sounds a bit too Hobbit in English.

Finrod Elvenking, you are just and fair
Finrod Felagund, you are just and fair

Or - Great King Felagund?

To me love is greatest of gifts I bear - how about 'Love to me is greatest of jewels I bear'? It ties back to the jewel theme, explicitly connecting their love to the Silmaril; makes a direct comparison with the Ring of Barahir; and doesn't imply he's planning to give said love to Finrod.

That's a way out! The reason it was "gifts" is because in Russian Beren says "for me love is a precious gift, for him love is merely an excuse". But your way works better!

'Pure love' &c - I think your parenthetical version works pretty well, actually! 'commands my heart' is a nice turn of phrase.

The only thing both versions fail to do is remove the ambiguity of which of the love and heart commands the other. But the good part is that it doesn't really matter!

What were you thinking, friend
Whose kin I owe my freedom?
What aid can I now lend
Son of the Younger Children?

I think this one wins because of "Younger Children". Evidently I forgot how The Sil sounds in English and am translating literally to the letter. *facepalm* I don't think it's strictly necessary to preserve the ambiguity, it just amuses me - especially with Finrod giving Beren The Look.

The 'fain' verse. I really like 'fain', but my reworked proposal drops it entirely (because I think it works best as a pair, and I had to drop at least one):

I wish but to fight my love to defend
I would not reject the will of another
I'm prepared to fight to the bitter end
Against the Lord of Fetters in northern tower!

If you don't like the extra syllable in 'against', it can be 'With'. (And 'Lord of Fetters in' can be 'Lord of Pain in his', but I enjoy Lord of Fetters.) I'm pleased to hear you didn't like 'black of colour'; I stumbled badly over that line.

Oh god, "black of colour". That is easily the worst line there. I can't believe I didn't think of "tower" as a rhyme, considering I even used it in the sentence! I like your idea for the ending, but I wonder if it's possible to keep the fains. How about:

I would fain in battle my love defend,
I would fain fulfill the will of another,
I'm prepared to fight to the bitter end
'Gainst the Lord of Fetters in northern tower!

A vow from slumber rises - For interlinking purposes, surely we have to say 'The Oath from slumber rises'? Finrod would definitely know that his houseguests are going to react badly to this.

Okay, when I got to this point I really facepalmed, because it's not even supposed to be "vow" by the text, it's supposed to be "Curse" - and if we choose to switch it up for interlinking purposes, of course it would be "Oath"! I have no idea how it ended up as "vow" in my head. You wouldn't believe how much I kicked myself this morning when I read your post.

Thus finds me the chalice with my doom brewing - I think the grammar is doing too much work here. How about In this poisoned chalice is my doom brewing? The 'poisoned chalice' idiom in English has an implied 'handed to me', so I don't think it needs to be in there directly.

Oh yes, the grammar. (Do you see an emerging theme? )

It's the same in Russian, really. The musical says "Thus the hand of fate presents me my chalice", implying the doom. It could easily be changed to the chalice of doom with an implied "handed". Honestly, the necessary and sufficient requirement for the idiom to work is probably just "chalice". :-)

The honour/fey lines are great! I'm not at all surprised you like them.

Happy that you agree. :-) I changed up Beren's "star-stone" line a bit to fall more naturally, and now that stanza probably comes in second place, as well as the denunciation.

The final stanza. I'm going to cheat here, because Melian says something very similar in her Aria. So:

Yes. Definitely yes.

Thank you for the detailed comments! The piece absolutely sounds better with your suggestions. And the more we polish the lines, the more they will shine. So keep it going! :-)

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Please thank your friend for me. It is nice to know the work is appreciated. The idea of someone actually singing these is incredible; would they work from the chords in the full Russian lyrics, or what? (I am not wise in the ways of music.)

So she knows someone who knows how to go about this properly, apparently. And yes, we'd follow the cords. I could play the first Thingol/Melian duet on guitar if I modify the cords to C (I believe they are in G as written). The rest of the songs I probably can only play on piano with a basic accompaniment; the cords are too complex for my guitar skills, and for hers too. Alternatively we find these other people she may be able to loop in, who include much better guitar players. But this is just an idea floating in the air. Keep in mind too that we live in different cities and don't see each other that often, so it may be a while before (and if) this actually happens. The other idea that had the audacity to float up during our conversation was that maybe we'd eventually translate the entire musical into a workable version... *falls quiet before things get jinxed*


The rest will get a separate post, this one is already long enough. Like you, I didn't necessarily intend to reply to every single thing, but it turned out that way anyways. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Huinesoron]

So I've just checked, and "wonderous" is actually the very first spelling recorded in the OED for 'wondrous': The wonderous serpente Of the seuen metals, made by enchauntment. (1555) I think we can use it. It's just the same trick as 'cur-SED'.

'Younger Children': um, don't go taking my Noldorisms as canon. I think this one happens to be right, but I throw in a lot of things just because they feel right. In this case, Children of Iluvatar + Younger is pretty natural.

The song's looking great! At some point I'll go through and sing all of these and flag any lines that stick out, but sight-only it looks good.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

The other idea that had the audacity to float up during our conversation was that maybe we'd eventually translate the entire musical into a workable version... *falls quiet before things get jinxed*

Heh. 'Eventually'. By my count there are 22 songs in Version 2 (the Extended Libretto would make that 23, because it splices in some Daeron into the middle of 'Hate'. But they're clearly a single song in V2. There are 27 songs total in the Extended Libretto.). Counting the unfinished Sauron and his Minions, we already have nine of them drafted. That's nearly half, in... what, a week? I have a fairly short attention span for weird projects, but not that short. We'll get there*.

*Where 'there' is defined as a functional draft. I make no promises at revisions; I am abysmal at those.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

So I've just checked, and "wonderous" is actually the very first spelling recorded in the OED for 'wondrous': The wonderous serpente Of the seuen metals, made by enchauntment. (1555) I think we can use it. It's just the same trick as 'cur-SED'.

I guess that's the official stamp of approval!

'Younger Children': um, don't go taking my Noldorisms as canon. I think this one happens to be right, but I throw in a lot of things just because they feel right. In this case, Children of Iluvatar + Younger is pretty natural.

Enc of Arda says they are called the Younger Children of Iluvatar and the Second People. "Younger People" is definitely a crossover. And I like "Younger" better than "Second" in that context, it's more... brotherly? I am still somewhat attached to the first version, but I think it's mainly because it aligns with the Russian more closely and I am biased that way. I think your judgement is more objective here.

The song's looking great! At some point I'll go through and sing all of these and flag any lines that stick out, but sight-only it looks good.

If you want to actually go through them aloud together, the offer of skype'n'all still stands. I am home all weekend and likely get off work early on Monday. If you're interested, shoot me a PM and we'll coordinate.

Heh. 'Eventually'. By my count there are 22 songs in Version 2 (the Extended Libretto would make that 23, because it splices in some Daeron into the middle of 'Hate'. But they're clearly a single song in V2. There are 27 songs total in the Extended Libretto.). Counting the unfinished Sauron and his Minions, we already have nine of them drafted. That's nearly half, in... what, a week? I have a fairly short attention span for weird projects, but not that short. We'll get there*.

*Where 'there' is defined as a functional draft. I make no promises at revisions; I am abysmal at those.

Hey, that's me! I do revisions! I am abysmal at functional drafts because my inspiration (ie the state in which you believe that what you're making is actually good stuff) dies out too quickly for the draft to become functional, but I can revise it for months after!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The hardest line was that 'Whose fingers fair' right at the beginning; as far as I can tell, it needs to be four syllables and rhyme with the next line. A lot of rejected version there.

Uhhh, I hate to say this, I really hate to say this... You're missing a downbeat.

chya LYOH-ka-YA ru-KA (Whose [LA la] fingers fair)
ye-YO skvoz OB-la-KA (Chose its course through the air)
mog-LA na-PRA-vit k TSE-li (And sped it to its target?) *which ideally would rhyme with the last line, but not critical for the song to work

Whose fingers skilled and fair? Which archer's/bowman's fingers fair? Do you have any of the discarded versions saved up somewhere by any chance?

Truth, you soar high above despair, singing
Chase shadows out as an arrow piercing

This needs to be altered for rhythm purposes. You have the perfect number of syllables, except the downbeats don't match the words. You end up having singING, and arROW pierCING.

Can I think of an alternative? Let me try.

Truth, singing, soar above the dark despair
As arrow sharp chase shadows from the air

Or not. Flag as "to be revisited".

I hear your whispered call

A minor detail, but maybe "heard", in past tense? This in my mind is supposed to echo (and answer) Galadriel's question of what drew Finrod to Middle-earth, and Finrod's own questions of what was his life worth. But even as a stand-alone, it still seems to refer to the time when the Noldor departed, to Finrod's past.

Here, abandoned in the snow
A thrall to any foe
My path a mystery
I sought for only thee
To learn what holy fires
Are blazing in the eyes
Of Secondborn inheritors!

I have a bit of trouble with this stanza (except first couplet, that's perfect). The main issue is that the "mystery" line doesn't seem to fall into tune at all. When I read this part at work I did the gymnastics to get around the syllable count and make do, but right now I just can't recall what trick I used to get there. On the principles of constructive criticism and generating variation, I will attempt a revision:

Here
Abandoned in the snow,
A thrall to any foe,
You only I sought ever
On pathways undefined
To learn what holy fires
Are blazing in the eyes
Of Secondborn successors!

Meh. That's not it either. One more thing To Be Revisited when inspiration is a bit less scarce.

Unbeatable, unreasoning.

This line is a bit too long and has to be forcefully squished to make the cut. Might I suggest "Unbeaten, unrelenting" as substitute?

A golden dust is shining in the heights
Sky-ships are burning in the sunset light
The curséd Silmarils are blazing far away
But there's a fire that shines brighter e'en than they!

My favourite stanza! Especially the first two lines. Beautifully put and perfectly translated.

Do not close up your gates - take me in
While I can see you, Truth - here within
Fulfilled my part at last, without knowing the price
I thank your mercy, Truth, in showing me the light!

I am very impressed, because it would not have occurred to me to translate it this way. I don't even know how I would do it, but this works very well. A minor nitpicking of rhythm, pro forma:

Don't close your gates upon me - take me in
While I can see you, Truth - down here within
Fulfilled my part at last, not knowing of the price
I thank your mercy, Truth, in showing me the light!


Yay Finrod! You finally realize that your life wasn't worthless after all! I love the philosophical dig into Finrod's character that the musical makes. It's beautifully done and well-developed throughout the story.


Edit: crossed with both of your posts