Gollum giving Gondor info on the Ring - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Deathwail · 01-10-2003, 03:57 AM

Why would Gollum offer up to the men of Gondor that Frodo has the One Ring knowing they will likly take it and end up losing it to Sauron? I cant imagion Gondor has anything like the tools of torture that Sauron has and you see Gollum in a few minutes after that and he looks no worse off.Plus the dark side of Gollum has taken control over him again and that side of him at no time before has ever offered up info or trusted anyone let alone the humans that just tossed him in a bag and other wise roughed him up.[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: Deathwail ]

**sparkle fairy** · 01-10-2003, 10:37 AM

yes but he was mad at frodo for getting him caught also (hes sooooooo cute) no that wasn't what i was trying to say!! He maybe doesn't realise who they are cos they didn't tell him they are from gondor.

eleanor_niphredil · 01-10-2003, 10:42 AM

Plus, he didnt tell them about the ring, he said that they had stolen his precious. Faramir worked that bit out all by his little self. He also had not idea that Faramir wanted the ring.

Deathwail · 01-10-2003, 11:58 AM

Well they where in Gondor when it happened so pretty sure he would of guessed that part and if Gandalf had to search long and hard for info about the tale of the One Ring how on earth would Faramir figure it out in 5 minutes? Plus as we know with Gollum at best he would of be talking in riddles and no way can i see him just coming strait out with it saying " Oh btw we have Saurons ring would you nice human chaps like to have it? " be real Gollum wants the ring more then anything there is no way he is gonna want to see it taken to the Lord of Gondor to be lost when they try to use it as some weapon or whatever. Myself i think Peter Jackson really blew it with that part of the film and pretty much went against everything we had learned about Gollum.

Deathwail · 01-10-2003, 12:05 PM

Also Faramir walked right up to Frodo and uses his sword to lift the chain holding the ring around Frodo's neck, i am sorry but to think Gollum would go into that kinda of detail about where the ring is to me is simply laughable.

-Imrahil- · 01-10-2003, 06:03 PM

All movies have discrepencies. This one had a few too many though.

01-10-2003, 06:48 PM

First off I'd just like to say, "What book made movie do you know of that follows it to a exactly?" The whole matter of Faramir knowing the ring is around Frodo's neck. How boring would it be to spend 10 more mintues for him to try and figure out where Frodo's keeping it. Let's just assume that he saw the chain around his neck and thought to himself, "Hey, that's were I'd keep in so as not to lose it!" As for Gollum, He wasn't talking or paying attention to Faramir when talking about "His Precious!" His two sides were talking to each other and battling for control. Faramir simply put 1 and 1 together to get 2.

Deathwail · 01-10-2003, 07:18 PM

If maybe they had a quick shot of Faramir studying the Lore of the Ring after he heard his brother was going off to help on some quest having to do with it then it would of maybe a bit more sence he having a clue what the hell " precious " means to a small smelly creature that is talking to itself infront of him means.But as the film is its totally hog wash to think some captain of Gondor would just happen to know the Lore and History of a three thousand year old ring when not even Gandalf knew of it.Next time you watch the film pay some mind to that part of the story and i think you will see they made a huge leap from " hey we have two hobbits we think are spies " to " Hey we have two hobbits and one has the most Powerful item in the world with him "

Melephelwen · 01-13-2003, 08:40 AM

In the book, we are actually told that Gandalf often when he was in Minas Tirith talked to Faramir, and Faramir also studied - Denethor actually claims that Gandalf is stealing his son. Maybe Faramir is simply intelligent enough to figure it out by himself (and Gollum).But I have another thought... Maybe Faramir actually had no idea what Gollum's 'Precious' was, and just thought - "Hey! Maybe Frodo has that weirdo thing in the chain he carries around his neck ... and I bet it's something dangerous..." and it was just plain luck, that he was right. The physical shape of the object was a detail he could clear out when he saw Frodo's 'necklace'.Okay, I know I shouldn't be writing here when I'm that tired!

Tar-Palantir · 01-13-2003, 03:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the book, we are actually told that Gandalf often when he was in Minas Tirith talked to Faramir, and Faramir also studied - Denethor actually claims that Gandalf is stealing his son. Maybe Faramir is simply intelligent enough to figure it out by himself (and Gollum). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think this is the most likely reason. But don't for get that he also knew of the dream that Boromir had:Seek for the sword that was broken, In Imladris it dwells There shall be counsels taken Stronger than Morgul spells There shall be a token That doom is near at hand For Isildur's bane shall waken and the Halfling forth shall standHe knew his brother had gone to answer this riddle in Rivendell, he knew his brother then died, then he also found out that this Halfling was travelling his brother. He knew what Isildur's bane was, and he didn't see Frodo wearing it, but he did see a chain around his neck. That Faramir's a pretty sharp guy, I think he figured it out just fine.

Deathwail · 01-13-2003, 05:50 PM

Once again it just shown where the film fails the books dont, thanks for the input i am gonna read up on Faramir somemore, after i finish the Silmirillion.

HCIsland · 01-13-2003, 06:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> If maybe they had a quick shot of Faramir studying the Lore of the Ring after he heard his brother was going off to help on some quest having to do with it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's what we needed to make sense of this! Faramir with a big yellow book entitled "Ring Lore for Dummies". H.C.

09-08-2003, 11:05 AM

Another thing that confused me about that scene in Gondor, Frodo seems not to know Boromir is dead and how until Faramir mentions it - so how come Sam knows everything?

The Only Real Estel · 09-08-2003, 11:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>He also had not idea that Faramir wanted the ring.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'd have to disagree with that one. Gollum fears & distrusts pretty much everyone's motives, always suspecting that they're really after his precious. I thought it was rather careless of PJ to have Gollum tell faramir about it. I also do think that Faramir didn't work that out by himself. How would he go from thinking that the hobbits stole something precious from a wretched gangel creature, to working out to the hobbits stealing the One Ring of power from Gollum? That's verrry unlikly.

Faramir Fan · 09-08-2003, 12:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> He also had no idea that Faramir wanted the ring. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Neither did those innocent patrons watching the movie, that had read the book...[ September 08, 2003: Message edited by: Faramir Fan ]

The Only Real Estel · 09-08-2003, 01:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Neither did those innocent patrons watching the movie, that had read the book...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No! Leave us alone! you're bring back bad memories!

Lyta_Underhill · 09-08-2003, 11:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think this is the most likely reason. But don't for get that he also knew of the dream that Boromir had:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I wish they had recapitulated this part. Of course, in the book, Faramir dreamt this dream more than once (can't remember the exact number of times) and Boromir once, so they both held it in common. I suppose if they had used this in the movie, the fact that Boromir had already known what "Isildur's Bane" was in FOTR would give it away to Faramir too quickly. And as for Faramir finding the Ring around Frodo's neck so quickly, perhaps the scene before the sword on the Ring scene was Faramir holding Frodo upside down and shaking him to empty his pockets, etc. Now that would have been an amusing scene! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>That's what we needed to make sense of this! Faramir with a big yellow book entitled "Ring Lore for Dummies".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> H.C. you kill me! I think he was reading out of "Battle Analysis for Dummies" when he says "Saruman attacks from Isengard, Sauron from Mordor." Cheers, Lyta

01-10-2003, 03:57 AM	#1
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Gollum giving Gondor info on the Ring Why would Gollum offer up to the men of Gondor that Frodo has the One Ring knowing they will likly take it and end up losing it to Sauron? I cant imagion Gondor has anything like the tools of torture that Sauron has and you see Gollum in a few minutes after that and he looks no worse off.Plus the dark side of Gollum has taken control over him again and that side of him at no time before has ever offered up info or trusted anyone let alone the humans that just tossed him in a bag and other wise roughed him up.<p>[ January 10, 2003: Message edited by: Deathwail ] __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-10-2003, 10:37 AM	#2
sparkle fairy Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: cumbria, england Posts: 21	yes but he was mad at frodo for getting him caught also (hes sooooooo cute) no that wasn't what i was trying to say!! He maybe doesn't realise who they are cos they didn't tell him they are from gondor. __________________ "Not all who wander are lost"

01-10-2003, 10:42 AM	#3
eleanor_niphredil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: england Posts: 812	Plus, he didnt tell them about the ring, he said that they had stolen his precious. Faramir worked that bit out all by his little self. He also had not idea that Faramir wanted the ring. __________________ Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to spend my time on this forum. And by the way, for any of you turning into a penguin, stop it. ~* I am Pippin took in the Female Fellowship*~

01-10-2003, 11:58 AM	#4
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Well they where in Gondor when it happened so pretty sure he would of guessed that part and if Gandalf had to search long and hard for info about the tale of the One Ring how on earth would Faramir figure it out in 5 minutes? Plus as we know with Gollum at best he would of be talking in riddles and no way can i see him just coming strait out with it saying " Oh btw we have Saurons ring would you nice human chaps like to have it? " be real Gollum wants the ring more then anything there is no way he is gonna want to see it taken to the Lord of Gondor to be lost when they try to use it as some weapon or whatever. Myself i think Peter Jackson really blew it with that part of the film and pretty much went against everything we had learned about Gollum. __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-10-2003, 12:05 PM	#5
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Also Faramir walked right up to Frodo and uses his sword to lift the chain holding the ring around Frodo's neck, i am sorry but to think Gollum would go into that kinda of detail about where the ring is to me is simply laughable. __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-10-2003, 06:03 PM	#6
-Imrahil- Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dol Amroth, upon the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 259	All movies have discrepencies. This one had a few too many though. __________________ My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!

01-10-2003, 06:48 PM	#7
Merry_Brandybuck Guest Posts: n/a	First off I'd just like to say, "What book made movie do you know of that follows it to a exactly?" <BR>The whole matter of Faramir knowing the ring is around Frodo's neck. How boring would it be to spend 10 more mintues for him to try and figure out where Frodo's keeping it. Let's just assume that he saw the chain around his neck and thought to himself, "Hey, that's were I'd keep in so as not to lose it!"<BR>As for Gollum, He wasn't talking or paying attention to Faramir when talking about "His Precious!" His two sides were talking to each other and battling for control. Faramir simply put 1 and 1 together to get 2.

01-10-2003, 07:18 PM	#8
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	If maybe they had a quick shot of Faramir studying the Lore of the Ring after he heard his brother was going off to help on some quest having to do with it then it would of maybe a bit more sence he having a clue what the hell " precious " means to a small smelly creature that is talking to itself infront of him means.But as the film is its totally hog wash to think some captain of Gondor would just happen to know the Lore and History of a three thousand year old ring when not even Gandalf knew of it.Next time you watch the film pay some mind to that part of the story and i think you will see they made a huge leap from " hey we have two hobbits we think are spies " to " Hey we have two hobbits and one has the most Powerful item in the world with him " __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-13-2003, 08:40 AM	#9
Melephelwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: the Middle of Nowhere Posts: 295	In the book, we are actually told that Gandalf often when he was in Minas Tirith talked to Faramir, and Faramir also studied - Denethor actually claims that Gandalf is stealing his son. Maybe Faramir is simply intelligent enough to figure it out by himself (and Gollum).<P>But I have another thought... <BR>Maybe Faramir actually had no idea what Gollum's 'Precious' was, and just thought - "Hey! Maybe Frodo has that weirdo thing in the chain he carries around his neck ... and I bet it's something dangerous..." and it was just plain luck, that he was right. The physical shape of the object was a detail he could clear out when he saw Frodo's 'necklace'.<P>Okay, I know I shouldn't be writing here when I'm that tired! __________________ We're all following a strange melody We're all summoned by a tune We're following the piper And we dance beneath the moon

01-13-2003, 03:16 PM	#10
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the book, we are actually told that Gandalf often when he was in Minas Tirith talked to Faramir, and Faramir also studied - Denethor actually claims that Gandalf is stealing his son. Maybe Faramir is simply intelligent enough to figure it out by himself (and Gollum). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think this is the most likely reason. But don't for get that he also knew of the dream that Boromir had:<P>Seek for the sword that was broken,<BR>In Imladris it dwells<BR>There shall be counsels taken<BR>Stronger than Morgul spells<BR>There shall be a token<BR>That doom is near at hand<BR><B>For Isildur's bane shall waken <BR>and the Halfling forth shall stand</B><P>He knew his brother had gone to answer this riddle in Rivendell, he knew his brother then died, then he also found out that this Halfling was travelling his brother. He knew what Isildur's bane was, and he didn't see Frodo wearing it, but he did see a chain around his neck. That Faramir's a pretty sharp guy, I think he figured it out just fine. __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

01-13-2003, 05:50 PM	#11
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Once again it just shown where the film fails the books dont, thanks for the input i am gonna read up on Faramir somemore, after i finish the Silmirillion. __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-13-2003, 06:22 PM	#12
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> If maybe they had a quick shot of Faramir studying the Lore of the Ring after he heard his brother was going off to help on some quest having to do with it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's what we needed to make sense of this! Faramir with a big yellow book entitled "Ring Lore for Dummies".<P> <P><BR>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

09-08-2003, 11:05 AM	#13
Rosamunda Tussle Guest Posts: n/a	Another thing that confused me about that scene in Gondor, Frodo seems not to know Boromir is dead and how until Faramir mentions it - so how come Sam knows everything?

09-08-2003, 11:09 AM	#14
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>He also had not idea that Faramir wanted the ring.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'd have to disagree with that one. Gollum fears & distrusts pretty much everyone's motives, always suspecting that they're really after his precious. I thought it was rather careless of PJ to have Gollum tell faramir about it. I also do think that Faramir didn't work that out by himself. How would he go from thinking that the hobbits stole something precious from a wretched gangel creature, to working out to the hobbits stealing the One Ring of power from Gollum? That's verrry unlikly.

09-08-2003, 12:21 PM	#15
Faramir Fan Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 72	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> He also had no idea that Faramir wanted the ring. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Neither did those innocent patrons watching the movie, that had read the book...<p>[ September 08, 2003: Message edited by: Faramir Fan ] __________________ "A new character has come on the scene (I am sure I did not invent him, I did not even want him, though I like him, but there he came walking into the woods of Ithilien): Faramir, the brother of Boromir..." J.R.R. Tolkien, Letters No. 66

09-08-2003, 01:49 PM	#16
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 3,025	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Neither did those innocent patrons watching the movie, that had read the book...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No! Leave us alone! you're bring back bad memories!

09-08-2003, 11:10 PM	#17
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 844	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think this is the most likely reason. But don't for get that he also knew of the dream that Boromir had:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I wish they had recapitulated this part. Of course, in the book, Faramir dreamt this dream more than once (can't remember the exact number of times) and Boromir once, so they both held it in common. I suppose if they had used this in the movie, the fact that Boromir had already known what "Isildur's Bane" was in FOTR would give it away to Faramir too quickly. <P>And as for Faramir finding the Ring around Frodo's neck so quickly, perhaps the scene before the sword on the Ring scene was Faramir holding Frodo upside down and shaking him to empty his pockets, etc. Now that would have been an amusing scene!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>That's what we needed to make sense of this! Faramir with a big yellow book entitled "Ring Lore for Dummies".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>H.C. you kill me! I think he was reading out of "Battle Analysis for Dummies" when he says "Saruman attacks from Isengard, Sauron from Mordor." <P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”

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