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04-07-2002, 04:49 AM | #1 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: England
Posts: 40
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After the One Ring was destroyed...
I'm not sure I quite understand what happened to the other rings after the One Ring was destroyed. Did they lose their potency?
And also, the elves. I've heard from some sources that after the One Ring was destroyed (this assuming that the elf rings lost their power) the elves could no longer be immortal on Middle-earth and they had to go to Elvenhome. And all the stuff about elves fading... LOL, I probably seem very ignorant but I just don't get it.
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"Her name was Nenlauriel, but they called her Rûthwen, because her anger seemed ever constant and ever flowing from her grey eyes." |
04-07-2002, 07:50 AM | #2 |
Regenerating Ringkeeper
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Holland
Posts: 757
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A long time ago the Rings were made of which the Ring-verse tells about. The three were the ones Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf had. The One Ring was made by Sauron and was called the Ruling Ring, for if you had the One (and if you could control it) you could control the other Rings.
Once the Ring was destroyed the other Rings lost their power. This might have been the reason that most of the elves went to Aman, but I think their was much more in that decision. As for elves becoming immortal after the destruction of the One Ring - it's not true. The elves remained immortal, no matter what Sauron would try or invent... they were created in that way by Eru Iluvatar and Sauron had not the power to subdue this. Neither did the elves fade: the nine nazgul were originally important men, but they faded... the seven for the dwarves were found again by Sauron again or consumed by dragons (the dwarves never faded for their resistance was too great, they have a enormous resistance against magic). The three the elves had were never touched by Sauron, for the elves of old hid them from him, and that's why they wouldn't fade. Also that's the reason why he didn't know where they were or who had them. I hope this explains it a bit [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] If you haven't done so before: read the Silmarillion and especially this chapter: 'The Rings of Power and the Third Age'... this chapter explains how the Rings were made and all about the plans of Sauron, and so on.
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'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.' |
04-07-2002, 09:25 AM | #3 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Gondolin
Posts: 413
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Just one point: although the elves were immortal no matter what, as lathspell pointed out, elves who remained in Middle Earth after the 3 rings lost their power and the dominion of Men began did fade. There are many mentions of this, for example by Galadriel, in the Doom of Mandos, and in the narrative of the Silmarillion. It seems that it was part of the fate of Arda that the Elves who remained in Middle Earth would 'fade', becoming less potent and living more and more in memory, while the younger race of Men would take dominion of Middle Earth.
The 3 Rings of the Elves had the power the postpone this fading and weariness of Middle Earth, which is why when the One Ring was destroyed and the 3 Rings lost their power many of the Elves sailed West. The fading was not caused by the rings, but the rings once possessed the power to postpone the fading.
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"If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes |
04-07-2002, 01:10 PM | #4 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 16
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Hmmmm... as elves start to fade, men start to gain dominion... Doesn't that sound like something quite familiar? It might sound stupid, but nowadays there's no magic creatures, only non-magic ones, like humans and animals. Couldn't it be possible that all this stuff Tolkien wrote about might be based on true events- events that happened long long ago? Remember what they said in the beginning of the movie? 'History became legend, and legend became myth, and things that should not have been forgotten, were.' or something like that. Whatever- just some random thoughts of mine!
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04-07-2002, 01:17 PM | #5 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 70
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I've allways thought that ME was real... ever since I read,or was read to, The Hobbit.
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"Where is the horse and the rider, where is the horn that was blowing, they have passed like rain on the mountains, like wind in the meadow, the days are damned in the west? behind the hills? there are shadows... " |
04-07-2002, 02:38 PM | #6 | |||||
Dead Man of Dunharrow
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Quote:
From a letter to the Houghton Mifflin Co., 30 June 1955: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]
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`A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!' |
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04-07-2002, 04:35 PM | #7 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 16
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Wow, I didn't know I was right- or somewhere clsoe to right!
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04-08-2002, 05:54 AM | #8 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: England
Posts: 40
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*Nods* Okay, I get it more now.
*Blushes* I kind of ignored the chapter about the Rings of Power in The Silmarillion. Maybe I should read it...
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"Her name was Nenlauriel, but they called her Rûthwen, because her anger seemed ever constant and ever flowing from her grey eyes." |
04-14-2002, 06:25 AM | #9 |
Regenerating Ringkeeper
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Holland
Posts: 757
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I agree with Bruce...and there's (as far as I know) one other letter where he compares his legendary and historical things with those of Earth itself. For example: Numenor was compared with and made by the story of Atlantis.
This letter is the letter to Milton Waldman, 1951. It is fully told in the Silmarillion, edition: 1999. From page x to xxix. Quiet a letter. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.' |
04-14-2002, 07:15 PM | #10 | |
Dead Man of Dunharrow
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Quote:
What is there to agree with? All I did was quote Professor Tolkien - it isn't me you're agreeing with.
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`A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!' |
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04-15-2002, 04:02 PM | #11 | |
Wight
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JRRT's letter already quoted by Bruce:
Quote:
If we expand this a bit, America would be Aman, Russia Rhun, and Middle East the Near Harad! |
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04-15-2002, 05:49 PM | #12 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: A place worse then Mordor........School!
Posts: 1,075
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The Lord of the Rings always reminded me of King Auther type stories. Where almost all evidence of it existing is lost. I have yet to read the Sil so my opinion is only guesses.
I never got the elf thing either. Because even though Galadriel and alot of elves left ME after the Third age Legolas and alot of other elves remained. Does that mean Legolas was fading? By that I mean were his 'elven talents' becoming less sharp or somthing? I never could understand the power of the rings either. As far as the one ring went it just made people invisible and then made them ugly corupted wreches. But how did it aid anyone in battle? In the movie Sauron was able to toss people around. I don't get it.
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"There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?) |
04-16-2002, 02:28 PM | #13 |
Wight
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Legolas did leave M-E, about 150 years after the end of the Third Age.
And Sauron was the Dark Lord, his powers were immense and were fueled even more by the Ring. There's no physical explanation to it. The Ring is witchcraft. |
04-17-2002, 09:39 AM | #14 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Didn't Legolas leave together with Gimli ? Or am i mistaking?
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04-17-2002, 01:34 PM | #15 |
Wight
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Yes, Legolas did leave with Gimli from Middle-Earth to Tol Eressea.
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04-21-2002, 06:47 AM | #16 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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As far as i can remember no where does it state for fact that Gimli travelled over the sea with Legolas!
In the Appendix B in 1541 it says "Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilean, and sailed down Anduin and so over the sea; and with him it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf." But if he actually did sail into the west which i doubt he did, why should he be allowed, i mean mortal men are forbidden to go, so why is a Dwarf permitted to??? |
04-24-2002, 04:14 PM | #17 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Dead Marshes
Posts: 25
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the particular dwarf was able to go, i think, because he was in the quest to destroy sauron.
i have another question sort of under this topic, so i'll just post it here. in the silmarillian it speaks of the end of the world when the elves and such will return. when every thing is peachy and everyone is happy. anyone have any idea as to when this might be?
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04-24-2002, 05:27 PM | #18 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 17
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Not this week I'm afraid. The Elves wouldn't much appreciate the turmoil in the Middle East. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
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