Elves & Dwarves of the east ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

R. · 06-05-2008, 01:11 AM

what does people think of the Dwarves and Elves of the east. We know for sure there were many Dwarves in the east i always thought there must be Elves also. Because so many left the journey west or didn't take it at all. I also assumed that many maybe never left Middle Earth even after the third age. Just wondering what others think. Thanks

Ron

William Cloud Hicklin · 06-05-2008, 08:07 AM

Tolkien wrote little or nothing about them.

He did name the Seven Houses of the Dwarves: three, the Longbeards (Moria/Khazad-dum) and the Broadbeams and Firebeards (Nogrod and Belegost) were in the West; "The other two places were eastward, at distances as great or greater than that between the Blue Mountains and Gundabad: the arising of the Ironfists and Stiffbeards, and that of the Blacklocks and Stonefoots." That's about it. There is a mention that in the War of the Last Alliance "all races, even birds and beasts" were divided and fought on either side, save the Elves: "but the kindred of Durin of Moria fought for Gil-Galad." This implies, since the survivors of Nogrod and Belegost had been absorbed by Moria, that it was some of the Eastern dwarves who fought for Sauron.

The Elves who refused Orome's summons were the Avari, who (in the late conception) never enter into any of the tales. It is possible, though never said, that Elves of the Journey were lost on the way, but the only breakaways mentioned are those of the Nandor, who quit rather than cross the Misty Mountains (and became the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien, or the Green-elves of Ossiriand); and those of Elwe's following who missed the boat and stayed in Beleriand: the Sindar. Both these groups were however "Eldar" since they at least began the Great March, and their tongues (in the late conception) descended from Common Eldarin.

Rumil · 06-05-2008, 12:40 PM

The only other thing I can think of is that all houses of the dwarves sent reinforcements to the Dwarf-Orc war in the Third Age.

skip spence · 06-06-2008, 09:38 AM

Isn't there something written in HoME X about the Avari of the east, and what happens when they die? As I remember it, it is hinted that many among them became corrupted and refused the summoning of Mandos when they died. Sauron's nickname the Necromancer had something to do with ensnaring the spirits of these dark elves.

06-05-2008, 01:11 AM	#1
R. Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2008 Location: In the belly of the beast Posts: 26	Elves & Dwarves of the east ? what does people think of the Dwarves and Elves of the east. We know for sure there were many Dwarves in the east i always thought there must be Elves also. Because so many left the journey west or didn't take it at all. I also assumed that many maybe never left Middle Earth even after the third age. Just wondering what others think. Thanks Ron __________________ In The Belly Of The BEAST

06-05-2008, 08:07 AM	#2
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,300	Tolkien wrote little or nothing about them. He did name the Seven Houses of the Dwarves: three, the Longbeards (Moria/Khazad-dum) and the Broadbeams and Firebeards (Nogrod and Belegost) were in the West; "The other two places were eastward, at distances as great or greater than that between the Blue Mountains and Gundabad: the arising of the Ironfists and Stiffbeards, and that of the Blacklocks and Stonefoots." That's about it. There is a mention that in the War of the Last Alliance "all races, even birds and beasts" were divided and fought on either side, save the Elves: "but the kindred of Durin of Moria fought for Gil-Galad." This implies, since the survivors of Nogrod and Belegost had been absorbed by Moria, that it was some of the Eastern dwarves who fought for Sauron. The Elves who refused Orome's summons were the Avari, who (in the late conception) never enter into any of the tales. It is possible, though never said, that Elves of the Journey were lost on the way, but the only breakaways mentioned are those of the Nandor, who quit rather than cross the Misty Mountains (and became the Elves of Mirkwood and Lorien, or the Green-elves of Ossiriand); and those of Elwe's following who missed the boat and stayed in Beleriand: the Sindar. Both these groups were however "Eldar" since they at least began the Great March, and their tongues (in the late conception) descended from Common Eldarin. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

06-05-2008, 12:40 PM	#3
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 893	The only other thing I can think of is that all houses of the dwarves sent reinforcements to the Dwarf-Orc war in the Third Age. __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

06-06-2008, 09:38 AM	#4
skip spence shadow of a doubt Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the streets Posts: 1,125	Isn't there something written in HoME X about the Avari of the east, and what happens when they die? As I remember it, it is hinted that many among them became corrupted and refused the summoning of Mandos when they died. Sauron's nickname the Necromancer had something to do with ensnaring the spirits of these dark elves. __________________ "You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan