A touch of humour to the ongoing debate.... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gorothlammothiel · 12-16-2002, 04:35 PM

On the much argued topic of the title "The Two Towers", a reader of a local London paper had this to say..."American's who want to change the name of the second Lord of the Rings film, The Two Towers, are crazy. How can they say it's clearly a reference to the devestated Twin Towers? Forgetting that the book was published 50 years ago, can I be the first Elvis fan to complain about the title of the third film in the trilogy [The Return of the King]? It gives false hopes to idiots like me."While it deals with a very serious issue it also brings a touch of humour to it, so I had to share the article. Please pay no heed to the nationality, although it is pointing at Americans, we are aware that there are many in our own country that feel the title is in bad taste. It is not meant to offend anyone, just amuse them

Eruwen · 12-16-2002, 05:38 PM

Lol. That is funny. Ya know, I never even thought about Elvis when I read the names of the books. Much less the Twin Towers. But thanks, Gorothlammothiel!

Nalana · 12-16-2002, 06:20 PM

I agree with you and that article. It does have it's humorous twist with the Elvis point. I understand that 9-11 was a serious issue, but the title "The Two Towers" has nothing to do with 9-11. and not only did the book come out 50 years before this event, but the shooting for the films were practically over before 9/11. but yes, humorous article.

Manwe Sulimo · 12-16-2002, 06:32 PM

Hell, I'm from the US, and I think that whoever made that petition is either really ignorant or really angry....What? Elvis is back? Or will be next Christmas? Kewl....

Diamond18 · 12-16-2002, 07:41 PM

Eru, no! I'm going to start a petition to get "Return of the King" changed because the prospect is just too scary.

Birdland · 12-16-2002, 11:28 PM

"Uh, say thur Frodo. Why doncha pass that ring on over to me, boy. I'd like to take that purty lil' thang home to Purcilla, uh-huh-huh. Thankya. Thankyavurymuch..."(Ladies and gentlemen, Elvis has left the council.)

Beruthiel · 12-17-2002, 12:41 AM

That does touch on a serious issue but how can you not laugh?? The Two Towers is just a name of a movie, it has nothing to do with what happened on 9/11, unless JRR Tolkien was able to predict the future or something.....

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 12-17-2002, 02:28 AM

*Elvis comes back, he feels the call of the ring*Gimme that purty little thing so I can er put her on my finger while I eat my iddycream, uh huh...umm... anyways, who even said that TTT represents the Twin towers? It was an ignorant statement and really stupid, but also funny.

doug*platypus · 01-02-2003, 07:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> can I be the first Elvis fan to complain about the title of the third film in the trilogy [The Return of the King]? It gives false hopes to idiots like me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's awesome! Nice quote. Reminds me of when Aragorn says in FOTR that Frodo needs "Elvis medicine".I think it's great to see that political correctness didn't force a name change. At least the title is true to the book, if not everything else is. I'm very glad that TTT didn't come out in 2001, or it might have been a different story. I hope that people in general are aware that the title comes from a book which was written long ago and that no offence is/was caused. I think basing a movie on Pearl Harbour these days is much worse, anyway.

Gandalf_theGrey · 01-02-2003, 10:11 AM

On the day The Two Towers came out, I heard two different older guys refer to it as "The Twin Towers." Both of these guys were favorably impressed by the movie, and not offended by the title (nor their mistaken version of the title) at all. My conclusion? They positively applied the imagery of the noblest Tolkien ideals inherent in Rohan fighting off Orcs and Dunlendings to defend freedom ... to compare with the red-white-and-blue patriotism of the USA's war against terrorism.Gandalf the Grey

doug*platypus · 01-03-2003, 07:42 AM

Interesting viewpoint, Gandoggy-dogg. I think I could hazard a guess as to which nation you hail from. I agree fully with you that Tolkien would have thought terrorism something that only Sauron and the Orcs were capable of. He was a product of the 'Great War' himself, and I think that all of his heroes would rather die or not fight at all, than to fight in the ways that people we label "terrorists" do.

01-03-2003, 07:55 AM

I'm actually quite angry at those who are signing all these petitions to change the title. The book was written so many years ago, and has NOTHING to do with the twin towers. It's a title, its not saying 'DEATH TO AMERICA!' or 'GO OSAMA!' or anything like that, is it? Now seriously, is turning your back and changing everything that has the word 'tower' in gonna make anything any better? Oh and, it's Tolkiens 111th birthday today... hehe, I find that quite amusing. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TOLKIEN!

Arien · 01-03-2003, 08:05 AM

I first found out about this in the summer when I was leaving Gatwick Airport to go to Florida.....I saw it in the paper and I was like "What the...."Its stupid.....really, really stupid.....but I am outraged about the title of the third book ROTK blatently refers to Elvis.....

engwaalphiel · 01-03-2003, 08:13 AM

apart from the elvis thing of course , i wonder how some lord of the rings hating professor / journalist/ nothing better to do with their time person is going to find a reason to slate the titles or the books themselves this time? I'm sure they'll come up with something just splendid!

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-03-2003, 03:47 PM

America wishes it was as righteous as Gondor.

VanimaEdhel · 01-03-2003, 05:50 PM

*Ignores that comment Eomer, but not before pointing out that not all of us are like that.*There were very few signatures on the petition to get the name changed, people. And most of the names were families of those who lost loved ones during the attacks (although I did not put my name down). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It's a title, its not saying 'DEATH TO AMERICA!' or 'GO OSAMA!' or anything like that, is it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Better analogy: it's not like they are selling Osama Bin Laden action figures. Better because it's real and actually happened in Pakistan, causing many Americans to begin to go crazy (not including me...hey: whatever floats their boat, right?)

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-04-2003, 08:15 AM

I know this is not the place for a political debate but I cannot stand any comparisons between The Lord of the Rings and the current warmongering in the world.Whatever you think about today's state just please leave The Lord of the Rings out of it.

01-04-2003, 10:16 AM

I've heard about some people cracking into tears if they hear the number 11. Or 9, whichever. And people who go publicly oppressing every tall object that comes in pairs.But this really takes the cake. No person should ever be this kind of a moron. Ever.And the brit who wrote that article is now my hero.Should be yours, too.

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 01-04-2003, 01:01 PM

Agreed, Swin. Although I always thought that petition was tongue-in-cheek humor. If you read it (and I have) it's clearly not serious.Not to steer the topic into dangerous waters or any such thing ( :eyeroll: ) but is anyone actually worried about Osama Bin Laden or Al-Q? There is such a tremendous variety of people who hate our country, it seems silly just to focus on one. Some of them irrationally tie us to things so vague we couldn't possibily have anything to do with them: "You the United States are responsible for the rise of Zion in our country!" Okay, hold on. I thought Voltar was our last supervillain, and wasn't Ultraman supposed to have dealt with that? Some, if you listen to their story... welllll, they kind of have a point, you can definitely see why they'd be upset. It makes you want to give them a sword or dueling pistol and hand another to the senatorial head of whatever committee made that decision:"In the news, Senator Blabblebok, head of the Committee on the Profitable Oppression of Short People faced off with Squeleeg, last surviving member of the Pygmy tribes. This duel is part of our National policy on facing the human consequences of our actions. Senator Blabblebok is survived by..."*g* Maril

Arwen Imladris · 01-04-2003, 01:28 PM

Oh, speaking of Elvis, has anyone seen Men In Black? Elvis is not dead, he just went home (another planet)

Adastrea · 01-04-2003, 05:00 PM

Tolkien always defended his work from comparison to the second world war, he said there was no comparison to be had between this world and ME (yet he always felt the shire was meant to be oxford and ME is a Mediaeval term for mainland europe-see my quote below...) I do not feel we should go comparing it to the dreadful events of 9/11 (a member of my family narrowly escaped.)Quote: Who cares about Osama and Al Quaeda?The human rights abuses made under their regime are not acceptable (Why should music be banned, and why should they be allowed to kill woman for the "sin" of wearing makeup???) They have a real probability of access to bio weapons. The people driven from their homeland by this regime should one day be allowed to return, if we had left Al-Quaeda to it they never could. Fundamentalism of any kind is dangerous, no matter what religion or political opinion.rant over, and no offense intended, but I felt I must say my two pence on that.

zacattack · 01-04-2003, 05:23 PM

Next they'll be reffering to the Uruk-Hai as Al-Queda and Saruman as Osama bin Laden

12-16-2002, 04:35 PM	#1
Gorothlammothiel Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sitting in front of my preferred world.... Posts: 256	A touch of humour to the ongoing debate.... On the much argued topic of the title "The Two Towers", a reader of a local London paper had this to say...<P>"American's who want to change the name of the second Lord of the Rings film, The Two Towers, are crazy. How can they say it's clearly a reference to the devestated Twin Towers? Forgetting that the book was published 50 years ago, can I be the first Elvis fan to complain about the title of the third film in the trilogy [The Return of the King]? It gives false hopes to idiots like me."<P>While it deals with a very serious issue it also brings a touch of humour to it, so I had to share the article. Please pay no heed to the nationality, although it is pointing at Americans, we are aware that there are many in our own country that feel the title is in bad taste. It is not meant to offend anyone, just amuse them

12-16-2002, 06:20 PM	#3
Nalana Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wyoming Posts: 29	I agree with you and that article. It does have it's humorous twist with the Elvis point. I understand that 9-11 was a serious issue, but the title "The Two Towers" has nothing to do with 9-11. and not only did the book come out 50 years before this event, but the shooting for the films were practically over before 9/11. but yes, humorous article. __________________ Namarie, ~~Nalana~~

12-16-2002, 06:32 PM	#4
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Hell, I'm from the US, and I think that whoever made that petition is either really ignorant or really angry....<P>What? Elvis is back? Or will be next Christmas? Kewl.... __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

12-16-2002, 07:41 PM	#5
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	Eru, no! I'm going to start a petition to get "Return of the King" changed because the prospect is just too scary. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

12-16-2002, 11:28 PM	#6
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,757	"Uh, say thur Frodo. Why doncha pass that ring on over to me, boy. I'd like to take that purty lil' thang home to Purcilla, uh-huh-huh. Thankya. Thankyavurymuch..."<P>(Ladies and gentlemen, Elvis has left the council.)

12-16-2002, 05:38 PM	#2
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 901	Lol. That is funny. Ya know, I never even thought about Elvis when I read the names of the books. Much less the Twin Towers. But thanks, Gorothlammothiel!

12-17-2002, 12:41 AM	#7
Beruthiel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Set adrift on the Great Sea Posts: 386	That does touch on a serious issue but how can you not laugh?? <BR>The Two Towers is just a name of a movie, it has nothing to do with what happened on 9/11, unless JRR Tolkien was able to predict the future or something.....<BR> __________________ ~I am not young enough to know everything~ Oscar Wilde

12-17-2002, 02:28 AM	#8
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 575	Elvis comes back, he feels the call of the ring<P>Gimme that purty little thing so I can er put her on my finger while I eat my iddycream, uh huh...<P>umm... anyways, who even said that TTT represents the Twin towers? It was an ignorant statement and really stupid, but also funny. __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

01-02-2003, 07:15 AM	#9
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 963	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> can I be the first Elvis fan to complain about the title of the third film in the trilogy [The Return of the King]? It gives false hopes to idiots like me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's awesome! Nice quote. Reminds me of when Aragorn says in FOTR that Frodo needs "Elvis medicine".<P>I think it's great to see that political correctness didn't force a name change. At least the title is true to the book, if not everything else is. I'm very glad that TTT didn't come out in 2001, or it might have been a different story. I hope that people in general are aware that the title comes from a book which was written long ago and that no offence is/was caused. I think basing a movie on Pearl Harbour these days is much worse, anyway. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-02-2003, 10:11 AM	#10
Gandalf_theGrey Visionary Spirit Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 633	On the day The Two Towers came out, I heard two different older guys refer to it as "The Twin Towers." Both of these guys were favorably impressed by the movie, and not offended by the title (nor their mistaken version of the title) at all. <P>My conclusion? They positively applied the imagery of the noblest Tolkien ideals inherent in Rohan fighting off Orcs and Dunlendings to defend freedom ... to compare with the red-white-and-blue patriotism of the USA's war against terrorism.<P>Gandalf the Grey

01-03-2003, 07:42 AM	#11
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 963	Interesting viewpoint, Gandoggy-dogg. I think I could hazard a guess as to which nation you hail from. I agree fully with you that Tolkien would have thought terrorism something that only Sauron and the Orcs were capable of. He was a product of the 'Great War' himself, and I think that all of his heroes would rather die or not fight at all, than to fight in the ways that people we label "terrorists" do. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-03-2003, 07:55 AM	#12
amaranth_telcontar Guest Posts: n/a	I'm actually quite angry at those who are signing all these petitions to change the title. The book was written so many years ago, and has NOTHING to do with the twin towers.<BR>It's a title, its not saying 'DEATH TO AMERICA!' or 'GO OSAMA!' or anything like that, is it? <BR>Now seriously, is turning your back and changing everything that has the word 'tower' in gonna make anything any better? <P>Oh and, it's Tolkiens 111th birthday today... hehe, I find that quite amusing. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TOLKIEN!

01-03-2003, 08:05 AM	#13
Arien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: London/Leeds UK Posts: 419	I first found out about this in the summer when I was leaving Gatwick Airport to go to Florida.....I saw it in the paper and I was like "What the...."<P>Its stupid.....really, really stupid.....but I am outraged about the title of the third book ROTK blatently refers to Elvis..... __________________ "...still, we lay under the emptiness and drifted slowly outward, and somewhere in the wilderness we found salvation scratched into the earth like a message."

01-03-2003, 08:13 AM	#14
engwaalphiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The edge of nowhere Posts: 89	apart from the elvis thing of course , i wonder how some lord of the rings hating professor / journalist/ nothing better to do with their time person is going to find a reason to slate the titles or the books themselves this time? <BR>I'm sure they'll come up with something just splendid! __________________ Estel............. Some have it more than others. "Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë!

01-03-2003, 03:47 PM	#15
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,992	America wishes it was as righteous as Gondor. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-03-2003, 05:50 PM	#16
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,473	Ignores that comment Eomer, but not before pointing out that not all of us are like that.<P>There were very few signatures on the petition to get the name changed, people. And most of the names were families of those who lost loved ones during the attacks (although I did not put my name down).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It's a title, its not saying 'DEATH TO AMERICA!' or 'GO OSAMA!' or anything like that, is it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Better analogy: it's not like they are selling Osama Bin Laden action figures. Better because it's real and actually happened in Pakistan, causing many Americans to begin to go crazy (not including me...hey: whatever floats their boat, right?) __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

01-04-2003, 08:15 AM	#17
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,992	I know this is not the place for a political debate but I cannot stand any comparisons between The Lord of the Rings and the current warmongering in the world.<P>Whatever you think about today's state just please leave The Lord of the Rings out of it. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

01-04-2003, 10:16 AM	#18
Swin Guest Posts: n/a	I've heard about some people cracking into tears if they hear the number 11. Or 9, whichever. And people who go publicly oppressing every tall object that comes in pairs.<P>But this really takes the cake.<BR>No person should ever be this kind of a moron.<BR>Ever.<P>And the brit who wrote that article is now my hero.<P>Should be yours, too.

01-04-2003, 01:01 PM	#19
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	Agreed, Swin. Although I always thought that petition was tongue-in-cheek humor. If you read it (and I have) it's clearly not serious.<P>Not to steer the topic into dangerous waters or any such thing ( :eyeroll: ) but is anyone actually worried about Osama Bin Laden or Al-Q? There is such a tremendous variety of people who hate our country, it seems silly just to focus on one. Some of them irrationally tie us to things so vague we couldn't possibily have anything to do with them: <P>"You the United States are responsible for the rise of Zion in our country!" Okay, hold on. I thought Voltar was our last supervillain, and wasn't Ultraman supposed to have dealt with that? <P>Some, if you listen to their story... welllll, they kind of have a point, you can definitely see why they'd be upset. It makes you want to give them a sword or dueling pistol and hand another to the senatorial head of whatever committee made that decision:<P>"In the news, Senator Blabblebok, head of the Committee on the Profitable Oppression of Short People faced off with Squeleeg, last surviving member of the Pygmy tribes. This duel is part of our National policy on facing the human consequences of our actions. Senator Blabblebok is survived by..."<P>g<BR>Maril __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?

01-04-2003, 01:28 PM	#20
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Oh, speaking of Elvis, has anyone seen Men In Black? Elvis is not dead, he just went home (another planet) __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

01-04-2003, 05:00 PM	#21
Adastrea Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England Posts: 31	Tolkien always defended his work from comparison to the second world war, he said there was no comparison to be had between this world and ME (yet he always felt the shire was meant to be oxford and ME is a Mediaeval term for mainland europe-see my quote below...) I do not feel we should go comparing it to the dreadful events of 9/11 (a member of my family narrowly escaped.)<P>Quote: Who cares about Osama and Al Quaeda?<P>The human rights abuses made under their regime are not acceptable (Why should music be banned, and why should they be allowed to kill woman for the "sin" of wearing makeup???) They have a real probability of access to bio weapons. The people driven from their homeland by this regime should one day be allowed to return, if we had left Al-Quaeda to it they never could. Fundamentalism of any kind is dangerous, no matter what religion or political opinion.<P>rant over, and no offense intended, but I felt I must say my two pence on that. __________________ "Hail Eärendil, brightest of angels, over Middle Earth sent to men."

01-04-2003, 05:23 PM	#22
zacattack Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Angband Posts: 70	Next they'll be reffering to the Uruk-Hai as Al-Queda and Saruman as Osama bin Laden __________________ "The dwarf breathes so loud we could have shot him in the dark "What an excellent spot I choose"-Gimli "Would you like me to describe it to you or just fetch for a box"-Legolas