T-I-G LXVII: The Rangers of the North - The Fell Winter

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, Lommy, as I tend to analyze people I find suspicious, of course I find things suspicious about them. Not always. Mostly, Legate's defending Rune without making a strong statement is what I find suspicious. His lack of commitment isn't terrible, except taken with the previous point. On top of that, arguing for a more powerful captain (which would be himself) adds to my suspicion of him, because it's not in the best interests of the village. Individually, the points can be taken neutrally. Together, the add up to a very different picture.

Yesterday, I started analyzing everyone because I felt I had a poor view of the village, not because I found them suspicious. As a result, you'll see that I was mostly neutral about them.

Edit: Strong statement, not string statement :rollseyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Firstly, because he was never really even voted to be the Captain, he just became the Captain because the elected Captain happened to die (and I must say that surprised me because I - wrongly - assumed we'd be without a Captain in a case like that). Ok this might not be the best of reasons, especially as our elected Captain was a wolf, but still for the sake of democracy, I'd rather have someone really elected for the position (and of course that doesn't disinclude Legate being re-elected).

Well, come on - I WAS elected, I had the second biggest number of votes. It's not that I would not have any votes at all and then suddenly ended up a Captain. I was given trust by quite many people in the village, okay, you excluded, but others were fine with it, so what? The Wolf who would have been a Captain had died, okay, I also didn't know how the rules will go, but the second person was chosen according to the rules, I think it's perfectly fine. And that's just for clarification. I would have said this even if e.g. Roa was the second one and was chosen to succeed Rune.

Secondly, and more importantly, because I don't think anybody should have power for too long. It's not only dangerous but also a bit useless. Legate had his chance to be protected and appoint people to PM with and talk with them, now let's give someone else to have the chance. (In a way, I see it as rather selfish to ask for another Day of Captaincy, or eyebrow-raising in the least.) The village benefits the more we have different people PMing and thus forming ideas of each other every Night. And like people have said, it's not good to have a wolf captain or a gifted captain, so it's safer to change them regularly.

Eyebrow-raising, you say? Why? And it's not that I would come and shout "yaaay I want to be Captain, make me Captain one more day!" I just asked, if you want to see, I said:

Originally Posted by me

Btw. One topic to ponder (after other things, but just to say it before I am gone) - as I figured out, the Captain really can adjust his lynch-stopping powers only on the second Day of his Captainship, if he is still in office, so... do you folks want to change your Captain, or are you fine with keeping me at least one more Day (it would also help me to kind of make a better picture of things, being able to pick more BGs on the next Night) and then just see? Of course it's all the matter of how much you trust me etc., but even for further "usage" of the Captains, I have been thinking that given how the rules are, it would perhaps be better to just have them for at least these two consecutive Days. So one more thing you can think of or discuss or ponder while I am not around.

The point is rather: okay, we have this rule that Captain could do something with the lynch, but he needs to be there for second Day, I have been there for one Day, do you want to see it or not? You can see for yourself that it wasn't "come and make me a Captain again, it was so great!".

Speaking of that... is there any other idea of making somebody a Captain, other than myself and Roa?

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Secondly, by “reasoning in Rune’s favor” I mean people who were trying dissuade others from lynching him while not openly supporting him. While one wolf may have openly voted to make Rune captain, others may have been more subtle. When they saw the votes to lynch him building, they would have tried to change direction in the lynch by either putting up a different candidate, or talking down the points against him.

I am not sure it's something a Wolf would do, wouldn't it be kind of too obvious but at the same time too little effective? Isn't it far easier to just cast a vote for somebody else?

And anyway, whatever you keep saying here, I wasn't "over and over" saying that "Rune is innocent and shouldn't be lynched". I just said that I do not feel okay with lynching him, i.e. primarily myself, and later also the others. Have you read what I said about the Hunter? That was one of my strong reasons, more in the end.

We shouldn’t keep a captain two days in a row. And Legate, by suggesting we keep you on, aren’t you doing essentially the same thing Rune was doing yesterday?

Like what? I already am a Captain, I am not striving for Captainship, but when I am already there, I have nothing against staying there. What would you do in my place? (If you are innocent?) Wouldn't you want to get the chance to talk to two more people at Night, to see? I have no problem if I am removed from office, but of course - and now again try to think if you were in my place - when I am here, I am sure no Wolf can get my place. It's personal point of view and of course others don't share it, because they don't know that I am innocent. Nothing more than that, the thought I have behind what I say is my choice and it's quite easy. The rest is of course upon the rest of you.

Nienna, Hakon was found guilty for doing the same thing Rune did- declaring a desire to be captain. He said it oddly, but it was the same. I also suspected him for that reason.

And while Rune was a Wolf, Hakon was a Hunter. Suspicious for the same reasons, but having totally different roles. What did you think about Hakon yesterday, anyway?

[Nogrod]

It's sad indeed to see him leave but well that's how it is.

To make the narration follow the real-life he will be insisting on leaving the company to go for Bree and not continue towards the Shire with others.

Now it's up to you to decide what to do with his announcement.

Meaning: you can either let him leave or lynch him. I thought of offering you a chance of forcing him to stay with the company as someone who just stays around... but maybe you have enough things to vote on already.

But it is a nice idea for some future games: if someone needs to leave the game the villagers could vote whether to let the person to stay in the village as dead weight or not instead of just simply modkilling her/him.

[Nienna]

Master Nog: If we want to keep Legate as a captain after there has been a referendum should we re-vote him or just not vote for the new person?

[Roa_Aoife]

Greenie

Post 1- Asks Roa to clarify what she meant about her possible captain picks. Doesn’t mind being NG, but doesn’t feel comfortable being captain. Agrees with Legate that we should be careful about bandwagoning on small things, but also points out that on Day 1 small things are all we have. Doesn’t see anything odd with Boro and Fea.

(His first post is very reasonable and straight forward)

Post 2- Ideas on captains: Think Boro and Legate are both clever and active and seem innocent, will probably vote one of them, doesn’t know enough about Rune to trust him, and is afraid to give Roa that kind of power

(Thoughtful and reasonable.)

(PS. I have to say all the people being afraid to give me power has got me thinking, “Oh yeah, I still got it.” )

Post 3- Thanks Roa for the clarification

Post 4- Votes Legate Captain because he seems sensible and innocent. Doesn’t want to spread the votes out, asks what happens in a tie for Captain.

(I personally think one should vote for whomever they feel should receive the vote, regardless if other have voted for them or not, but that’s me and not everyone agrees, innocent or otherwise.)

Post 5- Says that he thinks the wolves will play as they would normally play, and not try to be quiet just because the village is

Post 6- Gets off to let Lommy on.

Post 7- LIST!
Not particularly suspicious: Fea, Nienna, Mac, Kath, Loslote, Nerwen, Roa, Lommy, Boro, Brinn, Rune
Suspicious: Valier, Inzil, Sally, Hakon, Gwath

(I like that he listed her reasons instead of just listing names. I don’t like that she found Hakon guilty for making a bid for Captain, but not Rune for doing the same thing.)

Post 8- Votes to lynch Hakon, because he’s the one who already received vote of her top suspects, and because she doesn’t want Rune to die

(Again, Hakon and Rune did the same thing. Why should then Hakon die, but not Rune? By itself, it’s just poor reasoning. Looked at in the knowledge of Rune and Hakon’s roles, it looks suspicious.)

Post 9 - leaves to let Lommy on

Day 2
Post 1- agrees with what Legate says about people defending Rune, admits that her reasons for voting Hakon were weak, points out herself that the same reasons were used by the people who voted for Rune, apologizes for not voting for a NG, answers Lommy’s suspicion by saying “That’s what I always do”

(So, you can see that the reason for voting Rune was the same as for voting Hakon. Yet before you said that Rune should die and Hakon should. What goes for one goes for the other, so what’s that about?)

Post 2- Thinks we should keep Legate as Captain, thinks that we should change captain regularly, isn’t convinced either way about letting the captain get full powers, still afraid to give Roa too much power.

(So, do you want to change captains regularly or keep Legate? You can’t have both, my dear. And by keeping Legate as captain, you make a choice about letting a captain keep full powers, even though you say you aren’t.)


On the whole, Greenie is mostly reasonable. The only thing is that he suspected Hakon and defended Rune when they were doing the same thing. And that could have been the result of being swayed by the people who kept saying that Rune was innocent looking. Bottom line- eh... it's iffy.

Edit; crossed with Legate down

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I am not sure it's something a Wolf would do, wouldn't it be kind of too obvious but at the same time too little effective? Isn't it far easier to just cast a vote for somebody else?

It's more effective when you do both. That is, provide someone else for the noose (You were looking for someone who had already been voted on or had suspicion on them for your vote target) while ALSO trying to dissuade others from lynching him. Obvious? Perhaps. But some people play obviously because no one will believe it, and you have been bold in the past. You couldn't have known Hakon was the hunter. If he hadn't been, Rune would be captain right now, and you would have very little suspicion coming your way.

Originally Posted by legate

And while Rune was a Wolf, Hakon was a Hunter. Suspicious for the same reasons, but having totally different roles. What did you think about Hakon yesterday, anyway?

Read what you just quoted. I just said I found Hakon suspicious. At the time, however, Rune was the one who stood a chance of becoming captain. My thought process was that they could both be wolves. It was likely only one of them, but I didn't know which one. I saw that Rune was going to become captain, and I was so convinced that either he or Hakon was a wolf that I couldn't let him have that role. So I did two things: I tried to get him lynched, and I tried to put up someone else for captain that I didn't have a clear picture of at the time. You were the only person who stood the chance of beating him in Captain votes, so I went for you hoping that others would follow suit and we could keep Rune out of the captaincy. It didn't work, and Hakon had to save our butts. But had they both lived, I would have suspected them both today.

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, Nienna, why do you want to keep Legate as captain? (Just want to hear your reasoning)

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

When they saw the votes to lynch him building, they would have tried to change direction in the lynch by either putting up a different candidate, or talking down the points against him. Legate did the later more than anyone else. Over and over in his posts after Rune started to garner lynch votes, he reiterated the idea that Rune was probably innocent and shouldn’t be lynched, yet he never openly said that we should trust Rune. And he managed to sway people.

That's true, and he was doing that even before Rune started getting voted– right after I first expressed suspicion of him, in fact. If Rune's plan was to be "too obvious" to be a wolf, than I could imagine another of the pack pointing out that "real wolves are more subtle" to people who weren't buying it. On the other hand, innocents do tend to assume blatantly "wolfish" people can't really be wolves– and in fact very often they're not. *cough*Hakon*cough*

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

We shouldn’t keep a captain two days in a row. And Legate, by suggesting we keep you on, aren’t you doing essentially the same thing Rune was doing yesterday? I don’t believe you are gifted, because a gifted cannot act as a captain and is therefore useless. So, at best you’re an innocent after power, and at worst a wolf trying to get full advantage over the village.

Ah, but what if he's an ordo who thinks he'll be able to do some good in the role (I mean, Legate is clever, you know) and doesn't want to be replaced by another player who might be a wolf or gifted?

The thing is, Roa, if Legate is a wolf, than there must have been one heck of a conspiracy going on yesterDay. A lot of planning, I mean– many of the Legate-for-Captain voters, as I recall, were the same people who voted to lynch Rune.

EDIT:X'd since Roa at #321
EDIT2:Removed quote that wasn't meant to be there.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nienna

If we want to keep Legate as a captain after there has been a referendum should we re-vote him or just not vote for the new person?

I'm not sure if I got your point right but here's an answer to what I thought you meant.

If no one contests his Captaincy he stays in the office. You have kind of selected him "as for now", as long until someone of you wish to have another Captain and vote for it.

Now clearly other votes have been given already toDay and the challenge has been made. So you will be voting for a Captain toDay. The one gaining the most votes will be your Captain.

If it is Legate you choose toDay it will be his second Day in office and he will gain the added powers. If it is someone else the new C. will only have the draw-deciding powers.

In case of a draw in the Captaincy-election itself the old Captain continues.

I hope you got your answer.


There seemed to be a few other questions as well. I'll read the thread through (I'm on the previous page right now) and will then answer the questions in one post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

It's more effective when you do both. That is, provide someone else for the noose (You were looking for someone who had already been voted on or had suspicion on them for your vote target) while ALSO trying to dissuade others from lynching him. Obvious? Perhaps. But some people play obviously because no one will believe it, and you have been bold in the past. You couldn't have known Hakon was the hunter. If he hadn't been, Rune would be captain right now, and you would have very little suspicion coming your way.

Aaah okay, I can see your point. Good. Though, I already said what it was - no discouraging. And there was this personal aspect, I am saying it once again, that I thought Rune, given his daring approach, might have been a provocative Hunter, and since he voted me, I was not sure whether with his death I would not have died, if he were the Berserk or the Day-killing Hunter. I wanted to keep him undisturbed at least one more Day to try to get a better reading of him.

Read what you just quoted. I just said I found Hakon suspicious.

Oh, ok. I thought that by "him" you meant Rune.

EDIT: x-ed since the post I quoted

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now clearly other votes have been given already toDay and the challenge has been made. So you will be voting for a Captain toDay. The one gaining the most votes will be your Captain.

So in other words: yes, once the voting starts, it's just voting. If you don't cast your vote, you are not voting for anybody. If you want to keep the previous Captain, you need to vote for him.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Also, Nienna, why do you want to keep Legate as captain? (Just want to hear your reasoning)

I think that it is vital for an innocent to hold the position (if someone is to hold it). Legate is the only person at the moment who I think is innocent. I'd rather he keep it and then be able to help out in a lynch. He would also be able to pick two people to talk to tonight and he will be able to form more opinions of people. I think he did a good job as captain last night and asked reasonable questions and gave well thought out answers.

Basically: If we are going to have a captain, I want it to be somebody I trust.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm not sure if I got your point right but here's an answer to what I thought you meant.

If no one contests his Captaincy he stays in the office. You have kind of selected him "as for now", as long until someone of you wish to have another Captain and vote for it.

Now clearly other votes have been given already toDay and the challenge has been made. So you will be voting for a Captain toDay. The one gaining the most votes will be your Captain.

If it is Legate you choose toDay it will be his second Day in office and he will gain the added powers. If it is someone else the new C. will only have the draw-deciding powers.

In case of a draw in the Captaincy-election itself the old Captain continues.

I hope you got your answer.


There seemed to be a few other questions as well. I'll read the thread through (I'm on the previous page right now) and will then answer the questions in one post.

Thanks! That is exactly what I wanted to know.

[Nerwen]

Roa, Greenie is a "she". just letting you know.

EDIT:X'd since Nogrod.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Roa, Greenie is a "she". just letting you know.

EDIT:X'd since Nogrod.

I couldn't remember, so I went with male. Sorry Greenie.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Nienna

I think that it is vital for an innocent to hold the position (if someone is to hold it). Legate is the only person at the moment who I think is innocent. I'd rather he keep it and then be able to help out in a lynch. He would also be able to pick two people to talk to tonight and he will be able to form more opinions of people. I think he did a good job as captain last night and asked reasonable questions and gave well thought out answers.

Basically: If we are going to have a captain, I want it to be somebody I trust.

Alirght, why do you think he's innocent?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Aaah okay, I can see your point. Good. Though, I already said what it was - no discouraging. And there was this personal aspect, I am saying it once again, that I thought Rune, given his daring approach, might have been a provocative Hunter, and since he voted me, I was not sure whether with his death I would not have died, if he were the Berserk or the Day-killing Hunter. I wanted to keep him undisturbed at least one more Day to try to get a better reading of him.

And this is the problem with looking for gifteds. Leave it to the wolves, don't bother with it on your own.

[Roa_Aoife]

*sigh* The day ends in 5 hours and once again there's been hardly any activity. Legate is my strongest suspect at the moment.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

And this is the problem with looking for gifteds. Leave it to the wolves, don't bother with it on your own.

Well, I wasn't looking for Gifteds. I wanted to know whether he's not perchance going to kill me, you see

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

*sigh* The day ends in 5 hours and once again there's been hardly any activity. Legate is my strongest suspect at the moment.

Really? Interesting. Because of what - because of that I, as you say, "supported" not lynching of Rune, and because I, as you say, "ask for" being a Captain? Is there something else?

Anyway, whom else do you suspect, apart from me? You can just tell a list of people, you don't need to elaborate in any deep ways. But since you say "strongest", I would like to know whom else could you suspect.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Alirght, why do you think he's innocent?

I started thinking he was innocent at this point:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Haha, okay, I may as well post what I thought of, because I considered it a brilliant idea and it took me a few seconds to realise that it actually is not much of a help (if you say it just like that). After reading Nienna's post, I thought: "Hmm, Nienna is either an innocent... or a wolf."

Brilliant revelation, isn't it? Though you see, even though it seems like stating the obvious, the point is the dynamic behind the thinking. I have concluded that myself, I wasn't told that by the rules.

Well anyway, I may as well ask, Nienna, are you innocent?

This just doesn't seem like something that a wolf would ask. He is also being logical and not trusting my word but taking it with everything else. He is making sense and defending his positions. I don't see what you do with him being contradictory.

While we were Night talking he asked us why we thought he picked us and gave us opportunity to ask him questions. He answered our questions freely and he did nothing that would make me suspect him of wolvery.

[Roa_Aoife]

A. I suspect everyone to varying degrees because anyone could be a wolf. Unlike some, I don't ever really find someone to be innocent with out it being absolutely confirmed in same way.

B. I had three things which I didn't like about your posting: You continual suggestions that Rune was innocent (which really happened, the posts are there for everyone to see.), the fact that you reason and reason and reason and still come down on both sides of an issue, thus never really saying anything concrete, and the fact that you are even suggesting it would be better to have a captain with full powers which is not at all in the best interest of the village. All this combined with what we now know of the dead leads you to be my strongest suspect.

C. My next strongest candidate is Greenie because she voted to lynch Hakon but didn't apply the same reasoning to Rune, and I think that it's more suspicious to apply your reasoning to one person but not another, than to apply the same reasoning to everyone, even if it causes you to suspect some innocents, and especially since we know that the double standard worked in favor of a wolf it's even more suspicious.

Edit: crossed

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Roa

We shouldn’t keep a captain two days in a row.

I think this is quite a strong statement, to be honest, for surely there are two sides to the issue.

Originally Posted by Nienna

I think that it is vital for an innocent to hold the position (if someone is to hold it). Legate is the only person at the moment who I think is innocent. I'd rather he keep it and then be able to help out in a lynch.

I agree, to some point, though we have to bear in mind that even if the Captain has the village's best interests at heart it doesn't necessarily mean he can help out in a lynch (meaning that an innocent Captain, too, can get it wrong). On the other hand, I agree that Legate feels pretty innocent, and I think we all know he's smart, so he would, at least in my opinion, be a safer choice than somebody else. Also, I think we should remember that the Captain doesn't have to use his powers. (Which is no consolation if our Captain is a wolf, though...) But yeah, I'm a little confused with the Captain issue, don't know what to think.

Originally Posted by Roa

(So, do you want to change captains regularly or keep Legate? You can’t have both, my dear. And by keeping Legate as captain, you make a choice about letting a captain keep full powers, even though you say you aren’t.)

I'd think it was possible to change Captains regularly even if one Captain had two Days in office. However, I'm still not sure whether I want any single player have that much power... So yes, your criticism on that issue was very much justified since I'm flip-flopping like a proper Lommy.

Originally Posted by Roa

(I personally think one should vote for whomever they feel should receive the vote, regardless if other have voted for them or not, but that’s me and not everyone agrees, innocent or otherwise.)

As it happens, I agree. YesterDay I had two choices, each as good as the other, so I voted for the one who had already been voted for. If I had preferred Boro to Legate I'd have voted him.

Originally Posted by Roa

(Again, Hakon and Rune did the same thing. Why should then Hakon die, but not Rune? By itself, it’s just poor reasoning. Looked at in the knowledge of Rune and Hakon’s roles, it looks suspicious.)

Yeah. An excellent question. Maybe it was partly because I know applying that straightforwardly for Captaincy could well be something an innocent Rune would do. Hakon, on the other hand, has striked me before more as the sort of under-the-radar person, and his open desire to become Captain seemed odd because of that. Also, Rune's behaviour in general seemed quite genuine to me. Alas, I was fooled.

Originally Posted by Roa

I couldn't remember, so I went with male. Sorry Greenie.

No problem dear!


EDIT: x-ed with Lehag (yeah I intended to type Legate... ), Nienna and Roa

[Nienna]

Roa what think you of Fea?

[Roa_Aoife]

The only thing about Fea that has gotten me so far is her lack of aggression. She's either a lost innocent or a cautious wolf. I remember innocent Fea going after people left and right. But I haven't played with her in a long time, and I haven't got a good handle in her. (Not that I ever do.) None of her reasoning has been particularly faulty, so there isn't much too say about her otherwise.

I haven't the faintest idea why she trusts me. Greenie is quite right in not following suit.

Edit: cursed grammatical errors!

[Nienna]

What worries me about Fea is when she is an innocent she is usually bored so she does outlandish things. Maybe it is RL or maybe she is being a cautious wolf.

[Nogrod]

Well... in the end I only found these...

Originally Posted by Fea

I think we'd be better off without a Captain, but that would be kind of like a Republic game without a filibuster. If the mod says we can do it, who are we to choose not to?

The only way to get rid of Captaincy itself in these early stages of the game is to lynch the Captain in the end of a Day when no one has voted for any other Captain candidate to replace him (Captains are protected during the Nights so they can’t be killed during the Night by anyone).

Later (with 7 players or less) the Captain can also be killed by Night (unless ranger-protected of course) and then you might wake into a Day with no Captain and decide not to vote for a new one.

On a parallel issue...

Originally Posted by Legate

So in other words: yes, once the voting starts, it's just voting. If you don't cast your vote, you are not voting for anybody. If you want to keep the previous Captain, you need to vote for him.

Correct. Although to keep the previus C. you don't need to vote for him if no one challenges his leadership by voting someone else. That's why I insisted there being a deadline after which no new "Captaincy-votings" could be triggered.

So if you think the issue is important and you have to leave the thread early you should vote for the one you think should be a Captain (I'd say an early-leaver voting for his confidence to the current Captain would not be taken as opening a Captaincy-bid but the vote would be counted if rivalling votes would trigger a real voting on the issue later). But if you stay online late you can see whether there is a need to vote for a Captain or not.

Looking at the general feeling of this bunch it looks like there will be a vote everyDay...

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Did we ever get a Word-of-Mod on whether wolves are neutralised if they become Night Guards?

It was discussed, yes. The wolves will be able to PM with other wolves during the Nights even if chosen in “public offices”.

[Nienna]

Innocent:
Legate

Leaning Innocent:
Brinn
Greenie
Nerwen

No Idea:
Sally
Gwath
Kath
Roa

Leaning Guilty:
Valier
Fea
Lottie

I'm going to need to vote soon. Probably from my leaning guilty category.

Is anyone around with any opinions?

[Roa_Aoife]

Nienna, do you have reasons for your feelings, or are they just feelings?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It was discussed, yes. The wolves will be able to PM with other wolves during the Nights even if chosen in “public offices”.

Thank you.

So just note that, everyone: there is no real reason why the wolves wouldn't want to be Night Guards.

EDIT:X'd with Roa.

[Roa_Aoife]

Okay, someone out there beside me and Nienna has got to find someone suspicious. There are three guilty people among us. It's all well and good to say that the wolves will act as they always do, but the fact is that they're lying about something, and working in tandem with each other, and trying to accomplish a goal other than the village, so their behavior will have to change in some way. Someone among us is hiding something.

[satansaloser2005]

If anyone wants to hear a hunch, I think Brinn's a wolf. I don't know why, I just have that feeling. *hugs her for being so busy by the way* I'm probably wrong, but there's not a lot of other discussion that I feel prepared to get into, so I thought I'd put that out there.

Now if anyone wants to hear a fact, I know I'm innocent. But that doesn't really help in our wolf pursuit, so meh.


Also:

++Kath for NG

If she's a wolf we'll hopefully figure it out soon. If not I don't want her dead.

[Nienna]

Val:

Originally Posted by Valier

Hmmm the site seems to be having problems, so I don't want to risk not voting uncase it goes down again.

++Loslote for Lynch

Not sure if I was supposed to just bold that or highlight...

I was leaning towards Nienna but Loslotes actions seem more warranted for my vote today. I will have my radar on towards one or both tomorrow.

I'll still be here till the DL as long as the Downs is

She flip-flopped between me and Lottie and then ended up voting Lottie... it seemed almost trying to bandwagon

Originally Posted by Valier

Simply because I like him and haven't played a game with him in aaaaages, so yes I would hate to see him get lynched the first day.

This seems like her trying to dissuade villagers from lynching Rune without giving good reason. She also has one of the top vote counts but most of her posts are tiny and either questions about the rules or little replies to people.

And she feels off. I don't know if it is something to vote her for though... bah. She will be my pick if nothing stronger comes up.

Lottie because she suspected me and then voted me for no reason whatsoever. I'm willing to give her another day though.

Fea for reasons given above... she just doesn't feel like an innocent Fea

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am around here and I may as well present my suspect.

I am suspecting Lommy, again. It is sort of hard to define it from some particular point of view, but she just does not look to me as her innocent self. Of course, she is not around as much as she generally is, because she doesn't have that much time, so that could be reflected in her way of acting as well, but still. For instance, she is far less prone to her typical "Lommy flip-flopping" - it is somewhat more subtle. Also, the way she downplays me as the Captain - okay, now I don't want it to sound too personally, but I just think she would not be as uncertain of me, or at least, I think she would not be so worried of me being in the post of Captain for one more Day if she were innocent. Because I believe she would have good enough reading of me to determine whether I am worry-worthy or not. And so, she should not have minded that much (given what she says herself) to leave me there.
It is really hard to describe, but I think she is guilty, more than anybody else.

She herself said the same thing Roa accused me of, that is, she was, in these words, downplaying Rune's lynch:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm not too happy with the lynch candidates. Rune is most likely an ordo and Hakon hasn't done anything to merit lynching. He seems like a cannon fodder ordo to me.

But especially together with the Hakon thing. She says it with some sort of... certainty, as if she knew he is innocent. Of course as a Wolf she would, and then she could - and now she can - lament "oh, you fools, I told you, poor Hakon"! All too wolfy approach that could be, to say what she just said in this post.

When I was speaking about Lommy flip-flopping:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't like Kath's vote for Valier, it seems forcedly reasonable.

Then again, that's kind of understandable.

But then again again, I really wouldn't mind voting her even as innocent because she so totally fooled me in Brinn's game.

This one looks like Lommy flip-flopping, but more like a forced Lommy-flip-flopping, if you know what I mean? Not something she would genuine think of, but there was something else going on her mind at that moment - like thinking how to cast suspicion on somebody, for instance.

Also, for the sake of mentioning it, her list of people yesterDay is more or less composed the way that it could be like trying to keep on many people's good side, like for example:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Fea - seems okay this far, I can sympathise about the retrackies
Nienna - seems quite the same as last game when she was helpful and innocent

My problem with these is just that it sounds false, as if she made it up. Sorry. I probably cannot say it better. But she just seems to me not to be genuine at all.

But I could note what she said of the two dead of yesterDay:

Hakon - innocent enough, I'm not sure a wolf would boast of making a good leader
(...)
Rune - a bit weird, but I have the gut-feeling that he's innocent - unless he's the cobbler and making a mess deliberately, but it feels more like an innocent Rune making mess accidentally

So here it goes again, sort of defense of Rune (and now we may speak of somebody promoting Rune innocent), and "I'm not sure a wolf would boast for making a good leader" - she states it with Hakon, but doesn't (dare to?) state it with Rune (because it is true in his case, and she knows?).

Ah well, overall, Lommy's reactions are unnerving to me. I just don't think she would behave the way she does if she were innocent.

EDIT: x-ed since Nienna after Nog's

[Roa_Aoife]

Really, Legate, to me it seems that Lommy didn't think making a bid for captain was suspicious on Day 1, so she didn't find an innocent Hakon or a wolfy Rune suspicious. It's less a defense of Rune than what you were doing, and at least her reasoning was consistent, unlike others who thought Hakon was guilty but not Rune, and vice-versa.

Today, knowing that a wolf did indeed make an open bid for captain, I'm not surprised she doesn't want to keep captains around long enough to be dangerous.

[Roa_Aoife]

++Legate

for the reasons I mentioned earlier, and because his suspicion of Lommy looks very manufactured

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Okay, someone out there beside me and Nienna has got to find someone suspicious. There are three guilty people among us. It's all well and good to say that the wolves will act as they always do, but the fact is that they're lying about something, and working in tandem with each other, and trying to accomplish a goal other than the village, so their behavior will have to change in some way. Someone among us is hiding something.

Mmn, but you see you've spent much of the day making your cases against Legate and Greenie, and a lot of the discussion has been around that.

(And while I do get your points on both of them, I don't find them compelling enough to actually vote them at this point.)

Meanwhile, in this post I examined the links between the Rune-for-Captain voters. As I said then, it's not conclusive– Inzil would have looked very much in the thick of things were he still alive– but all the same I think it might be a good idea to lynch either Valier or Loslote (since Boro is leaving).

EDIT:X'd since Roa at #351.

[Nienna]

As I do not have time to look at Lommy thoroughly enough to warrant a vote for her I'm going with my top suspect Valier.

++Vailer

++Captain Legate

++NG Nerwen

and Roa you are creeping your way up my suspicion list. I may be back before deadline but I'm not sure so I don't want to risk it.

[A Little Green]

NOT WORRIED ABOUT AT THE MOMENT:
Nienna - Seems innocent and has sharp points (+ agrees with me quite a lot.. ) I could vote her as Guard.
Kath - Innocentish vibes. Could vote as Guard.
Nerwen - Seems more like an innocent Nerwen, she's somehow a tad more careful and smooth and calculating as a wolf. Could vote as Guard.
Legate - Seems innocentish and reasonable. I think I might vote him for Captain.

NO IDEA:
Fea - No read.
Sally - I was kind of suspicious of her yesterDay, but not that much anymore. Actually I have no idea.
Gwath - Too little to go on.
Brinn - No idea.

SOMEWHAT WORRIED ABOUT AT THE MOMENT:
Loslote - I'm leaning towards thinking that the classic suspicious-looking stuff she's done (jumping on other people's suspicions etc.) is more due to being new than to being evil. Not convinced, though, which is why she is here. I'm keeping an eye on her.
Valier - Aargh. Good points have been brought up against her, which must have swayed my opinion of her somewhat. I have little on her that I'd have spotted myself.
Roa - No idea. She's certainly being active and helpful and hasn't said or done anything blatantly wolfish, but I really don't know... It just struck me how handy it would be for a cunning wolf to hide behind being influential, analysing a lot and pointing out other people's faulty argumentation. As I learned on a course of "wise speech", in a debate the one who gets to point out the flaws of their opponent without having to defend themselves is always the stronger. Apart from it being good for the village if she's innocent and striking at wolves, of course, there's always the option that it's the other way round. In short, for one who has posted so much I have very little opinion on her which worries me a bit.
Lommy - Hmmm. Legate I think had some good points against her. I don't know, though, the thing that has struck me as weird in her behaviour is that she was, especially yesterDay, overly enthusiastic and happy and cuddly and all over the place. That in itself is of course no bad thing - it was the way in which it was done that made me worry. Other than that, I don't know.


EDIT: x-ed with 2xRoa, Nerwen and Nienna

[A Little Green]

Does anyone have a vote tally for toDay or do I have to do one myself?